God’s Man, Darwin - Clifford Goldstein

[olger]

Quote:

"Redwood said: Feel free to ask me anything you want on this forum ... but do not pressure me further to communicate with you offline or I WILL report it to admin."

I'll tell Mom and you'll be sorry.

Still chuckling,

olger

[Woody]

Quote:

I'll tell Mom and you'll be sorry.

Still trying to be condescending I see. And you said you wanted to know what it is that you are doing wrong. What do I fear? Let it be clear ... I do not appreciate your name calling and personal attacks and I will continue to point them out. But I will not communicate with an abusive person without witnesses. So ... I will report your harrassement if you do not cease.

[Woody]

This forum should be a safe place to voice your opinion without certain people calling others names such as cowards and being condescending as the above quote by Olger. And I should not be pressured to give my real name and address and to have to communicate offline with someone who is verbally abusive.

[olger]

I give up. Let me know when you are ready to face things like a man. I have nothing to hide. Feel free to complain to your heart's content.

God is able,

olger

[Woody]

I'm ready Olger ... Go for it online in front of witnesses. If you have nothing to hide .... then lets not hide it. Do it in the open.

Quote:

Let me know when you are ready to face things like a man.

There you go again ... insuating that I am a coward. Your constant condescending comments will not go unnoticed by all.

[olger]

Jesus plainly said that the first line of communication in reconciliation was conversing alone. You will find that in Matthew 18:15. I promise not to bite you friend. Haven't bit anyone in 30 + years.

I have followed Jesus' methods at least three times in my life and it always works (for those who aren't afraid to try it). I ain't afwaid.

My desire to communicate with you in private is for the sake of those who might be watching (I don't like to make scenes). Secondly it is to attempt to honor God by simply doing what He asks. If you can summon the courage, my email is gcwagoner@earthlink.net.

Have a blessed day as you ponder my gracious offer,

og

[Gail]

Olger, I think that Redwood has given you his response to your invitation.

Please respect that- thanks

[olger]

I think you're right.

og

[phkrause]

The same thing happen here in New England with the New England Memorial Hospital.

pkrause

[skyblue888]

For the record ... those who are saved and have faith in Jesus ... WILL have differences in the theological beliefs. Once we get to Heaven ... God will straighten us ALL out. In the meantime ... all we can do is to do our best through the Holy Spirit to understand scripture.

Study to show thyself approved unto God. YES. But we will never achieve what needs to be done until Heaven.

But those who have the "the faith of Jesus" will " see eye to eye." They will not have to wait until the hereafter to be "of one accord." When the Spirit is poured out again, as it was at Pentecost, God's servants will see eye to eye and will be of one accord!

To "do our best through the Holy Spirit to understand Scripture" until God straightens us all out when He comes is an oximoron! No offense intended! For, speaking of the Holy Spirit, Jesus said, "He will teach you all things." John 14:26. "But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things." 1 John 2:20. "As the same anointing teaches you concerning all things..." "All things pertaining to life and godliness." 1 John 2:27; 2 Peter 1:3.

This was not written for the hereafter! It is true that we will continue to learn throughout eternity but concerning the things that pertain to life and godliness as far as this present life is concerned, the Holy Spirit teaches all things provided we have "the faith of Jesus," not mere "faith in Jesus." Millions have a nominal faith in Jesus but few have the faith of Jesus! Rev.14:12.

"And when His Holy Spirit shall come into your hearts, to impress the truth into your souls, you will not let it go easily. You have gained such an experience searching the Scriptures that every point is established. And it is imnportant that you continually search the Scriptures. You should store the mind with the Word of God..." E.G. White, Faith and Works, pl56,57.

Every point is established!

"The Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things. No more will you say, I cannot comprehend. No longer will you see through a glass, darkly. You shall 'be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height, and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge.'" The Desire of Ages, p.670.

"The crooked shall be made straight." Isaiah 40:4.

Those whom God is leading and through whom He will finish the work here on earth will hold the same theological beliefs. If there is anything theological among them that needs straightening, it will have to be done for them now, not when He comes. It would be too late then!

Isaiah prophesied concerning them saying,

"How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him who brings good news, who proclaims peace, who brings glad tidings of good things, wo proclaims salvation, who says to Zion, Your God reigns. Your watchmen shall lift their voices, with their voices they shall sing together: for they shall see eye to eye when the Lord brings back Zion." Isaiah 58:7-8.

sky

[John317]

Totally agree, Skyblue.

By the way, am studying the two booklets on the 1888 Message. Wonderful. Many thanks.

[John317]

Redwood, have you ever read the book, Christ Our Righteousness, by Arthur G. Daniells? If you did, what did you think of it? Do you believe what is in that book or do you have any objections to any of it?

[skyblue888]

Totally agree, Skyblue.

By the way, am studying the two booklets on the 1888 Message. Wonderful. Many thanks.

I knew you would!

I am glad you are enjoying the booklets!

sky

[Gregory Matthews]

This is a general reply tacked on at the end of this thread:

Much discussion has taken place, some of which has involved Ellen White. As a co-founder of the Seventh-day Adventist Chruch, it is often well for us to consider the leadership that she has given us during our developmental years.

With the passage of time, since her death, a great body of mythos has grown up arround her. The result of this is that many have misunderstood, and misused her. Many have taken positions regarding her that she would reject.

Recently a cutting edge book has been published about her. I have not yet purchased it, but I intend to do so. I have read about it, as well as excerpts from it. I recommend it as a book that is important enough that it should be read by all committed SDAs, and/or people who study SDA history and development.

The book is MORE THAN A PROPHET, written by Graeme Bradford. It is published (and distributed) by Dr. Sam Bacchiocchi. Yesterday it was listed on Amazon.com.

However, it comes in two editions. The first edition has been soundly critized for editorial errors--spelling a sentence structure. Recently a new edition has come off of the press. In that edition, attmpts have been made to correct the editorial errors. Know the edition you are purchasing if you wish.

The publisher of the book beleives it to be so vaulable that he has made it available for download (and printing) on the Internet.

[NOTE: I am going to have to search to see where it is posted on the Internet. I will post it when I find it.]

Bevin and I have not always agreed. I do not expect that we will always do so in the future. But, Bevin is actually correct in some of the points that others here take issue with him.

Bevin, I would encourage you to either purchase this book, or to access it on the Internet. I think that you will find it to be worth while. I think that many others will also find it to be worth while. In any case, as I consider it to be a seminal book it will be worth your reading so that you are aware of what is going on in Adventism in regard to EGW.

You may read, and print the entire book at:

http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/bradford/index.htm

[John317]

I've read it. Dr. Sam Bacchiocchi is the one who told me about it and asked me to read it and decide if I want to help distribute it. It's a controversial discussion and should not be understood to be necessarily "the correct view" of Ellen White.

If possible, one really should study Douglass's book on Ellen White, which can be read online at EllenGWhite.org/ as well as Arthur White's biography of her. No single book has all the right answers about her, and none probably ever will. Everyone needs to read as widely as possible about her but most of all to remember to read what she wrote herself, then make his own mind.

[bevin]

I think this is the Pastor Bradford who was a pastor of my childhood church in Nelson, New Zealand

It is great to see this book on-line. I had seen excerpts from it, but was not aware it was completely available.

/Bevin

[there buster]

I know Graeme, have worked with him. He's a friend. Although I haven't had time to read the entire book, it appears to be an expansion of material he gave me when I was in Australia in 1995.

If so, it is a much-needed examination that demonstrates the foolishness of the Rea/Numbers approach.

This, and Bart Ehrmann's work on the early church, help balance the verbal inspiration view commonly held. However, as some on CA have demonstrated, it is still possible to wrest the evidence to fit ones predilections.

The overall picture I see is of an inspiration more human without becoming less divine-- yes, just like the Living Word, Jesus.

With both Christ and Inspiration, the attempt has been made to make them solely human or solely divine. Both arguments are mistaken.

[Woody]

This is a general reply tacked on at the end of this thread:

Much discussion has taken place, some of which has involved Ellen White. As a co-founder of the Seventh-day Adventist Chruch, it is often well for us to consider the leadership that she has given us during our developmental years.

With the passage of time, since her death, a great body of mythos has grown up arround her. The result of this is that many have misunderstood, and misused her. Many have taken positions regarding her that she would reject.

Recently a cutting edge book has been published about her. I have not yet purchased it, but I intend to do so. I have read about it, as well as excerpts from it. I recommend it as a book that is important enough that it should be read by all committed SDAs, and/or people who study SDA history and development.

The book is MORE THAN A PROPHET, written by Graeme Bradford. It is published (and distributed) by Dr. Sam Bacchiocchi. Yesterday it was listed on Amazon.com.

However, it comes in two editions. The first edition has been soundly critized for editorial errors--spelling a sentence structure. Recently a new edition has come off of the press. In that edition, attmpts have been made to correct the editorial errors. Know the edition you are purchasing if you wish.

The publisher of the book beleives it to be so vaulable that he has made it available for download (and printing) on the Internet.

[NOTE: I am going to have to search to see where it is posted on the Internet. I will post it when I find it.]

Bevin and I have not always agreed. I do not expect that we will always do so in the future. But, Bevin is actually correct in some of the points that others here take issue with him.

Bevin, I would encourage you to either purchase this book, or to access it on the Internet. I think that you will find it to be worth while. I think that many others will also find it to be worth while. In any case, as I consider it to be a seminal book it will be worth your reading so that you are aware of what is going on in Adventism in regard to EGW.

You may read, and print the entire book at:

http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/bradford/index.htm

Thanks Gregory ... I praticularly liked this quote ....

"This illustrates well that we find her changing her position on the basis of others pointing out a more correct position from the Bible. She was prepared to change her own previously published position on a basis of further Bible study.202 She also refused to let her writings be

122

the final arbiter in the matter; instead she requested that the matter be resolved from the Bible alone."

[Woody]

I've talked at length to Sam Bacchiocchi about his books. But I am glad that he published this one. I think it is one of the better ones he has published and I have most of his books and tapes.