Returned Adventist Ministers to Former Members

[Amelia]

Back in the Fold; Returned Adventist Ministers to Former Members

June 5, 2007 Portland, Oregon

Elizabeth Lechleitner/ANN

As much as Mike Jones enjoys a solitary Sabbath afternoon hike in the mountains surrounding his Portland, Oregon home, he'll be the first to tell you a life without relationships is like a line dance without music: a series of meaningless motions.

The same goes for church attendance. If Seventh-day Adventists don't maintain solid, nurturing friendships with fellow members, Jones knows firsthand and leaving the church is far easier.

Jones, who himself spent 16 years outside the church, knows that too often, new and returning believers find less than friendly congregations waiting for them. Instead of brooding, in 2003 he launched Operation Reconnect, a ministry aimed at bringing back members who have left the church. His quarterly newsletter, Getting in Touch, reaches some 15,000 inactive and former Adventists.

Working in partnership with Adventist Church-supported Voice of Prophecy, Jones' ministry marshals relationships--not sermons--to "apostasy proof" the church.

A 2006 study by the Adventist Church's Council on Evangelism and Witness gives good reason for Jones' emphasis on church community. It reports that former Adventists often cite a lack of friends among their top reasons for leaving the church.

Jones' newsletter helped Bruce Barnett, a controller for a machine company in Washington, reconnect with his church. After serving as an elder, church treasurer and Sabbath School leader for more than a decade, Barnett and his wife divorced. In response, his fellow elders urged him to resign from church leadership. When they showed no interest in his wellbeing, he resigned his membership as well.

But Barnett continued to attend church. "I had nothing to be ashamed of, no reason to run off [to a different church]. But I felt alienated," he says. "Even good friends who tried to stay by me were pressured to stop befriending me."

Several years later, Barnett read an article Jones wrote for a local church paper. Moved by Jones' ministry for former Adventists, Barnett called him. "[Jones] didn't wave any magic wand, but he offered his kindness, concern, and friendship," Barnett recalls.

"Hurt is a common theme among former Adventists," Jones says. "I do a lot of apologizing for the church after hearing these stories."

Jones admits that he gets few direct responses from former Adventists. "It's mostly concerned moms and dads and grandparents who submit their kids' names and addresses to us."

He thinks his job is far from over, estimating at least 1 million former Adventists live in North America.

"At Voice of Prophecy we're very concerned about the many inactive members and are so pleased to be connected with Operation Reconnect," says Lonnie Melashenko, VOP director. "It doesn't get better than how Mike Jones and his wife reach out to former Adventists--not reprimanding them or making them feel guilty, but loving them back into the church."

Like many others, Jones left the church, not over ideology, but over relationships. When he divorced his wife in 1983, Jones worried negativity directed against him might reflect on the church. "There was no scandal," Jones explains. "It was just an unworkable marriage and I felt it would be best for the church if I were to leave. I assume a fair number of the brethren at the time agreed."

He says the silence that greeted him after he left certainly didn't contradict that assumption. Considering his years editing Insight magazine, teaching journalism at Adventist-owned Andrews University and pastoring in Oregon and Alaska, Jones was surprised that the church didn't contact him. "I never heard from them. Once I was gone, I was gone."

More than a decade later, a retired Adventist minister in Oregon urged Jones to return to the church. "My first question was 'Why?' I loved the Lord, tried to harmonize my life with His principles, and was keeping the Sabbath. Why should I come back? [The pastor] said to me, 'Because the church needs you.'

"Give me a break," Jones recalls replying with a laugh.

A relationship then did what a seemingly indifferent church couldn't. After being single for 13 years, Jones met a woman named Diane while Country & Western dancing. Because Diane only dated active Christians, Jones agreed to consider returning to church on the condition that Diane consider accepting the Sabbath. Less than a year later, the two married and joined the Adventist Church on profession of faith.

But their new fellow church members were far from welcoming. "Early after my wife and I started going to church again, she said, 'Those people really don't like us. It's like they don't even notice we're there.' We could have stopped going again, but instead we decided to help church members become friendlier. Some real good has come out of that initial unfriendliness," Jones says.

Along with the newsletter, Jones and his wife present weekend 'Friendliness Seminars' to teach church members "how to be nice." The Voice of Prophecy offers a video version of his seminar through their Web site.

"If even 25 percent of our members would say 'howdy' or 'hello' to three people every Sabbath morning, especially to those they don't know," Jones says, "the friendliness factor of our churches would be incredible."

"If members can learn to take an interest, reach out, invite visitors to lunch, ask how things are going, there's a lot that they can do to really change the tone of congregations in a way the church as a whole probably cannot do."

[Stan]

he would make an intersting interview here

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

More than a decade later, a retired Adventist minister in Oregon urged Jones to return to the church. "My first question was 'Why?' I loved the Lord, tried to harmonize my life with His principles, and was keeping the Sabbath. Why should I come back? [The pastor] said to me, 'Because the church needs you.'

If Mike had not come back to the church, I would most likely still be out of the church. I met Mike and his wife Diane while I was still a witch. I'm sure he could regale you with things I said that I don't even remember. He and I have had our differences, but he and Diane are still a couple of my best friends. I think they'd be delighted to come on for an interview about his experiences and mission to reclaim former members...

[darlene]

A recent statistic from the North American Division is that 70 percent of those Adventists who divorce leave the Church in the 1st year of their divorce. Why? I'm not sure but I can give quite an educated guess and that is they leave because they feel judged or unaccepted by those in their church. Or like Mike Jones says, none of us care about them. What a shameful statistic!

[olger]

Dear Darlene. "If the unbelieving spouse depart, let him depart" (1 Cor. 7:15). This is the right way (if there can be such a thing) that a couple becomes seperated.

Many, in our culture however, see their marriages end because they both brought unresolved issues into the union--and failed to resolve those issues. The enemy uses those unresolved issues to become barriers between a couple and they can't fnd emotional intimacy together. When the marriage fails, they carry failure, guilt, and shame around inside. This is the problem.

A person will either acknowledge their own guilt or they will project all blame on that other person. Projection will ultimately lead them to change their theology. Sadly..

It is time that we as a church "carefront" our members in love. Lifelong marriage is not optional. Young couples need desperately to be mentored, and blessed by the word of God. Our church is doing pitifully little to encourage the marriages among us. That said, those who are single by choice or circumstance need to feel loved and carefronted. Marriage is a lifelong committment and a serious thing.

When we understand the consequences that follow a divorce (covers one's garment with violence) it is not sufficient to blame the church for those choices. We can help yes, and the greatest help is prevention of divorce & restoration of first marriages.

Ultimately, it should come as no surprise when a divorce leads to leaving the church. Think for a moment, what symbolizes the relationship between God and His church?

Marriage. (Ephesians 5:22-33).

olger

[Woody]

Quote:

Ultimately, it should come as no surprise when a divorce leads to leaving the church. Think for a moment, what symbolizes the relationship between God and His church?

This is an outrage. I completely disagree. It SHOULD be a surprise. The church is made up of sinners of all kinds. When a divorce fails ... the church should take EXTRA care to love and support each person in the broken marriage. IF that was done ... then there would be NO need for them to leave the church.

And it is the fault of the church when they leave. If they had done their Christian duty to care for the ones going through divorce ... then the break up with the "church" would not be needed. Let him without sin cast the first stone.

Let me fill you in on the "rest" of the story regarding Mike Jones. I heard him recently on 3ABN. It went something like this .... The first time he brought back his wife to church .... some righteous SDA saint ... walked up to him and put her hand in his chest and said .... "I know who you are". "You are not welcome here". "You are the mark of the Beast".

This is the kind of welcome that those who have been divorced get. It must stop. And the church IS responsible for them leaving.

[Amelia]

Yes, I can tell you from experience that the church doesn't care. You come, you go, whatever. No one missions to the individual congregant. And unless you have some value to the church you are just someone to shake hands with and thank for coming.

[Woody]

Yes, I can tell you from experience that the church doesn't care. You come, you go, whatever. No one missions to the individual congregant. And unless you have some value to the church you are just someone to shake hands with and thank for coming.

Amelia ... I truly wish it was as good of a picture as you paint. But that has not been my experience. What I've seen happen is that they are not shaken hands with. There are NO thank yous for coming.

Instead .... what happens is that they are both taken before the Church Board and disfellowshipped after having their entire marriage and lives ripped apart and judged. Why would these sinners stay in a church and religion like that?

Now as a preemptive shot at what Olger would say .... No Olger .... this is not a personal grudge that I am holding. This was not done to me.I am NOT bitter. But I HAVE witnessed this being done to others. And NO they were not my personal friends or relatives. But they were a part of the Body of Christ. And that HURTS.

[Clio]

Dear Darlene. "If the unbelieving spouse depart, let him depart" (1 Cor. 7:15). This is the right way (if there can be such a thing) that a couple becomes seperated.

Many, in our culture however, see their marriages end because they both brought unresolved issues into the union--and failed to resolve those issues. The enemy uses those unresolved issues to become barriers between a couple and they can't fnd emotional intimacy together. When the marriage fails, they carry failure, guilt, and shame around inside. This is the problem.

A person will either acknowledge their own guilt or they will project all blame on that other person. Projection will ultimately lead them to change their theology. Sadly..

It is time that we as a church "carefront" our members in love. Lifelong marriage is not optional. Young couples need desperately to be mentored, and blessed by the word of God. Our church is doing pitifully little to encourage the marriages among us. That said, those who are single by choice or circumstance need to feel loved and carefronted. Marriage is a lifelong committment and a serious thing.

When we understand the consequences that follow a divorce (covers one's garment with violence) it is not sufficient to blame the church for those choices. We can help yes, and the greatest help is prevention of divorce & restoration of first marriages.

Ultimately, it should come as no surprise when a divorce leads to leaving the church. Think for a moment, what symbolizes the relationship between God and His church?

Marriage. (Ephesians 5:22-33).

olger

Your attitude is precisely the type of attitude described in the intial post in this thread.

"Carefront" *snort* Just what people in some of the worst pain of their lives need!

olger, if you approach the couples in pain in this fashion, do they respond well to your approach?

[Woody]

Clio .... it is not his purpose to help those in pain. It is his purpose to "purify" the church. Can't have those who have been defiled by divorce in our fellowship. Oh MY! What is our church coming to if we can't love and support those in need?

[Woody]

Quote:

Let me fill you in on the "rest" of the story regarding Mike Jones. I heard him recently on 3ABN. It went something like this .... The first time he brought back his wife to church .... some righteous SDA saint ... walked up to him and put her hand in his chest and said .... "I know who you are". "You are not welcome here". "You are the mark of the Beast".

It has been pointed out that I gave credit to the wrong person. This actually happened to Dennis Sellers. The point is still the same. But it happened to Dennis not Mike. Sorry for the confusion.

Here's the entire story ... http://www.adventistreview.org/2005-1514/story2.html

And in the words of DENNIS ....

"In 1990 my wife, Leslie, and I decided to visit an Adventist church in Washington. As we were about to go into the service, we met Natasha* on the church steps. I didn't know her, but she knew me. She called me an apostate, told me that I was going to hell, that I had the mark of the beast, and that God was going to destroy me. This was my first contact with Adventism in nine years."

[darlene]

Olger, I know that according to the Bible we are told that the unbelieving spouse can leave the marriage whenever they choose. God does not look down on that.

I also understand that both persons in a couple bring unresolved issues into the union--and the marriage fails because of those unresolved issues.

In saying that 70% leave the church in the first year of their marriage, I am not saying that the divorce is not their fault. However, if we have a redemptive attitude in our churches we will treat these individuals with love and compassion or as Jesus would treat them. Our church must change to be more Christ-like and supportive of individuals during the time when they most need our love and support.

Having worked with Single Adults since 1991, I have heard many stories of the desperation and hurt members have experienced while going through a divorce in the church and we as members do not care. We judge them and say that if they loved the Lord enough they would not be divorcing. They lose their married friends in the church when they are no longer married. They are now alone at a time when we should be supportive and caring. This is why I am saying that our church must change and I include myself in 'our church.' No doubt I have been just as guilty as anyone.

Yes, we need more marriage seminars, workshops, etc. But that is not all we need. We need to learn to be more 'Christ-like' in all our relationships, both to fellow church members and to those outside of our church. We need to CARE about others.

[phkrause]

I had read that story before. It was an awesome article the first time and still great the second time. Thanks for posting it. I don't know Clifford personally, but he attendent my church in NYC while I served my country during the Vietnam Conflict (66-68).

pkrause

[Amelia]

Originally Posted By: Amelia

Yes, I can tell you from experience that the church doesn't care. You come, you go, whatever. No one missions to the individual congregant. And unless you have some value to the church you are just someone to shake hands with and thank for coming.

Amelia ... I truly wish it was as good of a picture as you paint. But that has not been my experience. What I've seen happen is that they are not shaken hands with. There are NO thank yous for coming.

Instead .... what happens is that they are both taken before the Church Board and disfellowshipped after having their entire marriage and lives ripped apart and judged. Why would these sinners stay in a church and religion like that?

Red, I have not been disfellowshipped for my divorce. The church didn't care one way or another. I think disfellowshipping depends on which way that particular church leans in it's politics.

[lazarus]

Instead .... what happens is that they are both taken before the Church Board and disfellowshipped after having their entire marriage and lives ripped apart and judged. Why would these sinners stay in a church and religion like that?

Originally Posted By: Amelia

Red, I have not been disfellowshipped for my divorce. The church didn't care one way or another. I think disfellowshipping depends on which way that particular church leans in it's politics.

Red, You must have been a member of some truely hardline churches, folks seem to get disfellowshiped for all kinds of stuff. I'm gonna side with Amelia and say that I think the biggest challenge is that folks simply cannot be bothered to make the effort to call, to ask, to pray, to visit. That includes Pastors, Elders etc. That's the biggest challenge we face in our churches IMHO.

[olger]

Hi Darlene. We agree completely.

There are many good souls in Zion who have not sold out to idols, nor climbed into the well of bitterness. Such believers keep the world from rotting away at the seams.

all in Him,

olger

[olger]

Quote:

Ultimately, it should come as no surprise when a divorce leads to leaving the church. Think for a moment, what symbolizes the relationship between God and His church?

This is an outrage. I completely disagree. It SHOULD be a surprise. The church is made up of sinners of all kinds. When a divorce fails ... the church should take EXTRA care to love and support each person in the broken marriage. IF that was done ... then there would be NO need for them to leave the church.

And it is the fault of the church when they leave. If they had done their Christian duty to care for the ones going through divorce ... then the break up with the "church" would not be needed. Let him without sin cast the first stone.

Let me fill you in on the "rest" of the story regarding Mike Jones. I heard him recently on 3ABN. It went something like this .... The first time he brought back his wife to church .... some righteous SDA saint ... walked up to him and put her hand in his chest and said .... "I know who you are". "You are not welcome here". "You are the mark of the Beast".

This is the kind of welcome that those who have been divorced get. It must stop. And the church IS responsible for them leaving.

Dear Outraged:

God bless you today. Thank you for your abstract examples and overall vitriol. Blaming the church is a popular mantra with you.

As a calculated warning: it can also be a universal buckler to deflect personal responsibility. Both tolerance and standards are needed in the Bride of Christ. Jesus is the Fountainhead of both.

Have a better day,

Gerhard C. Wagoner

Piqua, OH

[Neil D]

There are many good souls in Zion who have not sold out to idols, nor climbed into the well of bitterness. Such believers keep the world from rotting away at the seams.

all in Him,

olger

I am only going to say this once....

Olger, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about...

and no, there will be no evidence forthcoming...You don't deserve any evidence....

[olger]

Dear neil. Thank you for your kind words. I stand by what I wrote, after re-reading it.

All the best,

olger

(Everyone is a book).

[Neil D]

Dear neil. Thank you for your kind words. I stand by what I wrote, after re-reading it.

All the best,

olger

(Everyone is a book).

Olger, your words are unrealistic, supportive of myths, and just plain hurtful.

The truth of the matter, when it comes to divorce, is that when couples split, they do so, because one several reasons-

At best, an amicable split is where both partner can not work out thier differences and decide to go separte ways. Those differences are as numerous as there are people and they usually don't involve the concept of bad behavior. [at least, not in 'amicable divorces']

Another type of divorce is where partner feels that they will physically die if s/he does not split from the marriage, and the other spouse is victim of that decision. What causes that feeling, is again, as diverse as people on the planet.

And there are the infedelitys that do cause divorce...But when you get right down to it, why a spouse does the infedelity thingy is again as diverse as people on the planet.

But when I look at marrieds, and listen to them snip at thier spouses and call them 'stupid' / 'you just don't know what you're talking about'/etc.....I sometimes wonder why some people are married in the first place...

And when you come in here and proclaim that you know why all people divorce [of those poor deluted people who do get divorce], it's because of unresolved issues between them....I am sorry that you are perpetuating a myth from an experience that you do not have. And I hope you never do have it.

But if I were to counsel you, I would say that you need to put your energy into something for your marriage, and not pontificate as some expert on divorce...because most experts on divorce...don't know what they are talkin' about either.

[olger]

Dear Neil. Thanks for your response. I have a statement for you.

The problem in marriages is not our spouse. It is the unresolved issues that each person brings into the relationship. These are often spiritual issues that can ONLY be resolved spiritually. Sometimes they are inherited issues, and those too can be resolved by the Word of God. Failure to resolve our issues will lead to greater and more serious consequences.

We need more physicians and less undertakers in the Bride of Christ.

I like what you said regarding an evil-for-evil relationship. Those things come from the heart, the wellspring of pride and bitterness.

All the best,

olger

[Neil D]

It ticks me off....

Our church is organized to recognise marriages...but it does very little to help keep marriages healthy.

But it does have a lot to say about divorce....as evidenced by Olgers post. The 'righteous' in my church can labor long on all the reasons for divorce and pontificate on marriage. They drone on and on with thier counsel to the dumpees/dumpers on "staying with the Lord" by "... repent of your behaviors that led to the divorce"....oh give me a break! As if thier marriages were 100% ideal...

The attitude is that of the righteous who is not a divorcee..."I am better than you"....gee, where have we heard that before? I have even had 'friends' say these things...With friends like this, who needs enemys?

I know that this comes as a shock, but those who are in the church are usually victims of divorce...they are the ones who already have a humble attitude and want to be close to God and desire His presence to be comforted. Granted, some want justification for hating thier spouse as they can make the separation better, but some just want the pain to go away.

A kind word goes a long way here...

Most of the time, our church ignores these people. These are people who the devil has a great time tormenting. These are people who feel guilty, who are running senerios of "what if I had done this instead of that..."

And unless you like to make others feel guilty, which causes me to think that you are some sort of warped individual, why would a person experiencing divorce want to stay in a church that ignores them?

That is why I jumped all over Olger. That is why I was so harsh... If I can just get someone to really think thru thier responses to divorced people, if I can get someone to say a kind word to a divorced person....Gosh, what a better place this world would be....At least, it would make the transition of divorce better...

[Woody]

Dear Neil. Thanks for your response. I have a statement for you.

The problem in marriages is not our spouse. It is the unresolved issues that each person brings into the relationship. These are often spiritual issues that can ONLY be resolved spiritually. Sometimes they are inherited issues, and those too can be resolved by the Word of God. Failure to resolve our issues will lead to greater and more serious consequences.

We need more physicians and less undertakers in the Bride of Christ.

I like what you said regarding an evil-for-evil relationship. Those things come from the heart, the wellspring of pride and bitterness.

All the best,

olger

[lazarus]

The advice I recently gave to a close relative of mine concerning her martital problems was DO NOT expect the church to support you or your husband. If they do thats a blessing but do not be dissapointed. Its sad that I as a Pastor have to say that but this is what I've seen.

The Pastor of her church took two months to call back with the name and number of a counsellor. During the interval he did not once call to see how she was. There has been violence in the home but the church did nothing. Not even a phone call.

This is not every church, every pastor, every elder. Its way way too many for me!

[Amelia]

Quote:

The problem in marriages is not our spouse. It is the unresolved issues that each person brings into the relationship.

IMHO It is the spouse when he/she is not willing to work on the issues with their partner and lets the union wither. It's like trying to walk when one of your legs is numb and you can't feel it. You don't get anywhere.