Illegals

[there buster]

Quote:

"Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household," -- Eph. 2:19

I answered this four hours ago but the net broke down somehow between writing and submitting.

These Biblical texts from a time when there were no nation states as they exist today are not applicable. The closest thing would be Paul's actions with the runaway slave Onesimus. Surely Paul understood the text he himself wrote. And he also wrote that 'in Christ, there is neither slave nor free.' Nevertheless, in the Roman Empire, slavery did exist. And in the case of Onesimus, Paul obeyed that law. Under Roman law, Philemon could have had Onesimus executed for running away. If we're going to quote Paul on this issue, we have to take his example seriously.

Quote:

12I am sending him—who is my very heart—back to you. 13I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I am in chains for the gospel. 14But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do will be spontaneous and not forced.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

BUT I KNOW some of the children or not U.S. citizens.

they are still allow in the schools.

If we don't allow children of illegals to attend school they will join gangs or do other mischievous behavior. Isn't that a wonderful thought?! I think I would rather have them in my local school during the day than my backyard.

[Woody]

Quote:

BUT I KNOW some of the children or not U.S. citizens.

they are still allow in the schools.

If we don't allow children of illegals to attend school they will join gangs or do other mischievous behavior. Isn't that a wonderful thought?! I think I would rather have them in my local school during the day than my backyard.

You can educate them or you can deport them. Which is lawful?

[Neil D]

Neil ... Is that an excuse you are giving for the illegals to break the laws of this land?

Just because you think you can get away with breaking the law ... does not give you the right to do it.

Why do they break the law?

There are 3 reasons

1] because they need a job. They want a job. They are willing to risk thier lives for a job.

2] Because we rich Americans don't want to hire someone at a desent wage. It's our greed, we need to keep our hard earned money so we hire someone who will work cheep.

3] Because we don't enforce the law on the books, currently. Employers will not check the illegals, nor spend the money on prospective employees for background check and weed out the illegals. If employers did that, and dried up the illegal job market, there would be less of the illegals here in the US.

As for punishing people for breaking the law, would you jail someone for stealing food if they had a record AND could not get a job and needed to eat? Judges look at motives as well as the bad behavior. We reward those who take the initiative for hard work, and here we have illegals who are willing to work hard when our own American Citizens are not willing to take those jobs.

I thought there was a verse in the bible that said that if one is to judge, that they were to judge rightously....

[Woody]

Neil ... you make some good points but miss out on others.

A few years back ... I went to a foreign country and obtained a job. I applied to the government for a work permit. They told me that I would have to return to the US to apply and wait. I didn't care to wait ... so I went to another country whose laws allowed me to get a job and work immediately.

The point is that each country has laws about employment. Go to the country with the laws that meet your needs.

[Planey]

split the child

Very Solomon-like...

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

You can educate them or you can deport them. Which is lawful?

This is very simple. If we make schools check whether or not a child is legal and then deport the illegals - THEY ILLEGALS WON'T SENT THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL. Their kids will join gangs, steal our cars and rob our homes while they should be in school.

Just like medical care. If we make doctors check and report illegals, they won't go to the doctor and we will have thousands dying from flu-related illness and such things as strep throat.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Why do they break the law?

There are 3 reasons

1] because they need a job. They want a job. They are willing to risk thier lives for a job.

2] Because we rich Americans don't want to hire someone at a desent wage. It's our greed, we need to keep our hard earned money so we hire someone who will work cheep.

3] Because we don't enforce the law on the books, currently. Employers will not check the illegals, nor spend the money on prospective employees for background check and weed out the illegals. If employers did that, and dried up the illegal job market, there would be less of the illegals here in the US.

Reason #1 - correct

Reason #2 - Incorrect. We live in a global market. The price of agricultural products is not set by the farmer. The farmer has to sell his crop for what the market is paying. If he cannot hire cheap labor, he may as well let his crop rot in the field because it will cost him more to harvest it than he can sell it for.

Reason #3 - Partially correct. Employers do check for status. Illegals have fake papers. The government needs to provide a better method for employers to be able to verify legal status. A national ID card for everyone is the best way. This card can take the place of our Social Security card and have a picture and a thumb print. If we ever get universal health care, the card can also serve for that.

[lazarus]

Can we put pause on this conversation till I get back from Camp Meeting......please. Its hard to get on the net here...just for me please!

[David Koot]

But perhaps pastor Murphy could get on the net there? RHIP??

[Woody]

Can we put pause on this conversation till I get back from Camp Meeting......please. Its hard to get on the net here...just for me please!

What campmeeting are your at and who is speaking that has a good message?

[Neil D]

Quote:

Why do they break the law?

There are 3 reasons

1] because they need a job. They want a job. They are willing to risk thier lives for a job.

2] Because we rich Americans don't want to hire someone at a desent wage. It's our greed, we need to keep our hard earned money so we hire someone who will work cheep.

3] Because we don't enforce the law on the books, currently. Employers will not check the illegals, nor spend the money on prospective employees for background check and weed out the illegals. If employers did that, and dried up the illegal job market, there would be less of the illegals here in the US.

Reason #1 - correct

[lazarus]

i know u would understand....did u get my PM....whats up?

[lazarus]

Originally Posted By: lazarus

Can we put pause on this conversation till I get back from Camp Meeting......please. Its hard to get on the net here...just for me please!

What campmeeting are your at and who is speaking that has a good message?

http://www.pcsda.org/PC_Information/PC_NewsItem.asp?id=61

[Woody]

Thanks Laz. I have heard good things about Cheri Peters. But I don't know anything about the others. What are they like?

[Woody]

Quote:

Just an fyi, this is known as highjacking the thread and taking the thread where it wasn't origionally to go....A way to avoid the highjacking problem is to start a new thread....

Well Neil ... Since it is MY thread that I started ... I figured that I could do what I wanted with it. Hope you aren't too offended with my conversation on my thread.

I guess if you are offended ... you could start your own thread.

[lazarus]

Henry Wright is probably, in my opinion, the best SDA preacher on the planet as regards content, homoletics, practicality, Jesus, Holy Spirit etc.........

[Woody]

Thanks Laz . I will try to hear him some time.

Oh ... perhaps we should get the permission from Neil to have this conversation. Shall I go and check with him?

Neil says ...

Quote:

Just an fyi, this is known as highjacking the thread and taking the thread where it wasn't origionally to go....A way to avoid the highjacking problem is to start a new thread....

Since this is my thread ... I will suggest to Neil that if this conversation bothers him then he can either complain to ADMIN or start his own thread.

[lazarus]

Once you start a thread it is no longer yours, it belongs to the CA community. The only thread that belongs to us is the one in your (not YOURS Redwood, but anyone) head.

[Woody]

Well then ... I stand condemned for asking you about what campmeeting you were going to. But if only I had not listened to the temptation of you telling us you were going there ... I might still be pure.

[Neil D]

Quote:

Since this is my thread ... I will suggest to Neil that if this conversation bothers him then he can either complain to ADMIN or start his own thread.

It amazes me at the assumptions that Adventists display sometimes.

Internet rules in BBS's dictate that once a thread goes public, while it is your thought, it belongs to the community....And while the BBS is a public forum, it follows that the community owns the thread. And internest ediquette also dictates that the thread not get highjacked...Of course, it depends upon the adminstration and their enforcement of the rules....

And my admonition was just a FYI, not a slap on the wrist. Please don't make more of it than just an FYI....

[Woody]

Really Neil. If you wanted to be the internet police you could slap everyone here including yourself. Why not stick to the majors instead of the minors.

But I will once again apologize for asking Laz which campmeeting he was going to since it offended you.

It does amaze me the intolerance of some on a Christian Forum.

[Neil D]

Really Neil. If you wanted to be the internet police you could slap everyone here including yourself. Why not stick to the majors instead of the minors.

The post was an FYI [For Your Information]. It was not the internet police....

For someone who protesteth too much, me thinks that you were the one offended....

[Woody]

Drop it Neil. Just drop it.

I am sure you enjoy pointing out things for others information. But making all this so personal is just plain hijacking as you have tried so profusly to accuse me of.

So ... as the originator of this thread ... I would like to ask you to move on and discuss the topic at hand instead of being "illegal" with regards to this discussion.

The next time you want to inform a member of something off topic perhaps you could use a PM so as not to disturb the thread.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

the employer is NOT doing his homework when it comes to finding someone to work for him....

Bottom line is that it is the role of the federal government to protect our borders, not the role of corporate America. If the federal government was doing its job by keeping illegals out, corporate America wouldn't have to worry about any kind of background checks. So if the federal government is going to rely on corporate America to help the government do its job, it needs to make it a lot easier. That can be done by a national ID.