Celebration churches

[LifeHiscost]

I've never attended one that I'm aware of but I've heard enough about them through hearsay I sense they're very controversial. Is it true that those who are known to be "celebration" promote fun, games and partying as a large part of the Christian way of life?

If that is true, how does that fit into these two instructional words from Jesus.

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." Matthew 16:24 KJV

"Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober." 1 Thessalonians 5:6 KJV

Thoughts? LHC

[Nan]

I guess the definition of Celebration Church would have to be clear in my mind before I knew whether I had attended one or not.

Just googling the words brought up some interesting opinions, including one article saying that it is part of a Catholic/Jesuit plot to reunite the (Protestant, not just SDA) churches under the umbrella of the Roman Catholic Church.

[Tom Wetmore]

Unfortunately, Celebration in this context is a loaded term and now somewhat dated and out of vogue. It's use is most frequently in a pejorative sense by those against or critical of a non-traditional, more upbeat or modern worship style. There is a lot of misinformation, misperception, misrepresentation and inflammatory hyperbole that usually accompanies this perspective. That is reflected in the question, "Is it true that those who are known to be 'celebration' promote fun, games and partying as a large part of the Christian way of life?"

The more commonly used term for the less traditional worship style (And there is wide ranging variety) is "contemporary" which is a less loaded term. Yes, there is an emphasis on praise and even celebration in its purest sense. But it certainly is not all about fun and games and partying. If anything it centers around the real notion that the gospel is good news that should be met with joy and intense gratitude. (When I choose to attend one of the area churches of this genre, my family knows I am inclined to say, "Let's go to happy church!")

The focal point on joyous worship comes from Jesus' own words and example as portrayed in the gospels. While not unmindful of the need for sober vigilance in the appropriate context, He also told his disciples, "I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete." (The word "joy" appears in Scripture at least ten times more often than the word "sober" and frequently is used in conjunction with worship.)

Tom

[Woody]

Tom ... you have made a good point about the Joy of the contemporary churches. I think we all express joy in different ways. Some actually express it surprisingly in quiet seriousness. My fathers generation is very nonexpressive. They are calm and serious yet I think they have joy. They actually take it to a religious point and feel that it is not sacred to demonstrate joy.

Let me give you some background into how they got to this belief.

Ellen White makes the following observations ...

"Christ often wept but never was known to laugh. I do not say it is a sin to laugh on any occasion. But we cannot go astray if we imitate the divine, unerring Pattern. We are living in a sad age of this world's history." (Manuscript Releases Vol. 6, pp. 90-91)

""Singing should not be allowed to divert the mind from the hours of devotion. If one must be neglected, let it be the singing. It is one of the great temptations of the present age to carry the practice of music to extremes, to make a great deal more of music than of prayer. Many souls have been ruined here. When the Spirit of God is arousing the conscience and convicting of sin, Satan suggests a singing exercise or a singing school" Review and Herald July 24 1883

These views of Ellen White would seem to be in conflict with the present movement of contemporary worship which encourages a more joyous expression of worship and praise. Singing would far outweigh the time spent in prayer at a meeting.

I would propose that either way is fine. I want my father to experience that solemn stiff nonexpressive worship style. For that is HIS way to worship.

I think we can be tolerant of all forms of worship ... even the form that Ellen White prefered. Let those that like it go to it. Variety is the spice of life. To each his own. Let neither party be critical of the others preference.

I really believe that God accepts and loves our worship of him no matter what the style. If He is concerned with the way you are doing it ... He will impress YOU to do it a different way. But this is for YOU and not for your neighbor. Let you neighbor have his style.

[LifeHiscost]

Thank you for your answers, one and all. While I did recognize the fact that "celebration" has fallen out of favor if not actual disrepute, I was hoping for some principle of faith that would indicate why the "sober or joyful celebration" churches could be considered more closely following the Way Jesus indicated necessary and most helpful in completing the work He would like to see accomplished before He returns to deliver His disciples from a world that seems to be rapidly and seriously disentegrating.

At the moment these two come into mind. Do they fit the mindset of either the "sober or joyful" persuasion.

"Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world." James 1:25

"And He said to them, " Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation." Mark 16:14 NASB

"And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Matthew 25:40 KJV

I recognize there is a difference in every disciple's extent of duty to the greater cause of Christ, according to the faith granted by the Holy Spirit. However is there one major thread of commitment seen by all followers of Christ that would fulfil this thought in the hearts of believers.

"...until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ." Eph 4:13

NASB

Blessings! LHC

[pacunurse30]

This is a hot topic, especially in recent years. It really is about culture and preference. I attend what is probably considered a celebration church. However, there is NO teaching about partying, raking in a lot of cash (prosperity doctrine), living a wild life "under grace," etc. For some reason people equate sin with livelyness. I've never understood the connection.

Anyway, my church is the largest SDA church in Baltimore. We are pretty lively. We sing contemporary, gospel, as well as the traditional hymns. There is a band, complete with drums, bass, organ, and electric piano. There is a lot of shouting, hand clapping, hand waving, standing up, etc. However, this has a lot to do with African American culture.

For the most part, we are a lot more emotional than other cultures, and that includes other cultures with people of African descent. There is a huge difference there, and sometimes people forget that.

Another thing about my church. The pastor is huge on ministry, prayer meeting attendance, becoming rooted in the word, and living a holy life. The doctrines of the church are taught, and not watered down or raced over. Ellen G White is mentioned in a favorable light. I've been to many conservative, traditional churches that were dogmatic in theory, yet the teaching at the church was watered down to the comfort level of the audience. The pastors were disconnected from the main church body. There was division in the church over silly things. And I've even seen whole churches split in half, and busted up because they did a lot of sweeping under the rug. What I'm saying in a nutshell is there must be more emphasis on getting to know Jesus for yourself through his word and prayer. Don't discount the people who has a emotional expressions in their worship. Sometimes they just can't hold it in. There is nothing wrong with praise. There is nothing wrong with your emotions. If it's sincere, it will not be inappropriate. And rumor has it, Ellen White herself had a few of these shoutin' moments.

[JeriAnne]

Quote:

Music forms a part of God's worship in the courts above, and we should endeavor, in our songs of praise, to approach as nearly as possible to the harmony of the heavenly choirs. The proper training of the voice is an important feature in education and should not be neglected. Singing, as a part of religious service, is as much an act of worship as is prayer. The heart must feel the spirit of the song to give it right expression.

Patriarchs and Prophets Chapter 58 Page 594

My observation: Black Churches praise God from the inside out!

White churches praise God from the outside in!

The most racially diverse churches are those who know how to praise both ways in their services!

For many of us the ONLY part of worship with ANY authenticity is the MUSIC! Especially in the Male Dominated Churches!

[aldona]

Quote:

"Christ often wept but never was known to laugh. I do not say it is a sin to laugh on any occasion. But we cannot go astray if we imitate the divine, unerring Pattern. We are living in a sad age of this world's history." (Manuscript Releases Vol. 6, pp. 90-91)

""Singing should not be allowed to divert the mind from the hours of devotion. If one must be neglected, let it be the singing. It is one of the great temptations of the present age to carry the practice of music to extremes, to make a great deal more of music than of prayer. Many souls have been ruined here. When the Spirit of God is arousing the conscience and convicting of sin, Satan suggests a singing exercise or a singing school" Review and Herald July 24 1883

I can't believe she really said the above. Is this for real? I cannot continue to belong to a religion which promotes views like that.

I have only ever felt a sense of anything spiritual through music (and sometimes nature). If this is wrong, then maybe I am just not meant to be religious. (just for the record, my preferred style of worship is the silent "Quaker meeting", and my best music playing takes place when only God and I can hear it.)

Quote:

For many of us the ONLY part of worship with ANY authenticity is the MUSIC!

AMEN.

Let us not become like the fundamentalist Muslims, for whom all music is evil and of the devil.

Aldona

(going off to practice being more like Jesus i.e. weeping often but never laughing)

[Dr. Shane]

Our church is kind of mixed. We are mostly contemporary but also a bit traditional. We have two services but they are both exactly the same. I wish we had a traditional and a contemporary service. Then I might actually attend both on occasion.

[lazarus]

I can't believe she really said the above. Is this for real? I cannot continue to belong to a religion which promotes views like that.

Aldona

Here's my way of dealing with some of the rather "interesting" things EGW sometines says. She was like other prophets:

1. Not perfect

2. Influenced by the prevailing cultural attitudes and her own personal perceptions.

[DrWhoCompanion]

Hi JeriAnne! We're from Knoxville, by the way!

I can see both sides to this and agree with most of you. I kinda take Lazarus' position on this.

Great topic. My husband is actually interested in this forum now!

[Dr. Shane]

Here's my way of dealing with some of the rather "interesting" things EGW sometines says. She was like other prophets:

1. Not perfect

2. Influenced by the prevailing cultural attitudes and her own personal perceptions.

Shane agrees completely with Lazarus.

[Woody]

Redwood agrees with Shane.

But it still leaves me with confusion as to how I am to know which words of Ellen White were her own personal or cultural bias and un-"perfect" opinion ... AND which was "gospel".??

If I were to answer that question myself ... I would say that it is up to each person to compare her words to scripture like she wanted us to do. She did not want us to blindly quote and use her to support any teaching.

I like what she says here ...

Quote:

"But God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms. The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science, the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majority—not one nor all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith. Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain "Thus saith the Lord" in its support." The Great Controversy, p. 595

[there buster]

Quote:

Quote:

"Christ often wept but never was known to laugh. I do not say it is a sin to laugh on any occasion. But we cannot go astray if we imitate the divine, unerring Pattern. We are living in a sad age of this world's history." (Manuscript Releases Vol. 6, pp. 90-91)

""Singing should not be allowed to divert the mind from the hours of devotion. If one must be neglected, let it be the singing. It is one of the great temptations of the present age to carry the practice of music to extremes, to make a great deal more of music than of prayer. Many souls have been ruined here. When the Spirit of God is arousing the conscience and convicting of sin, Satan suggests a singing exercise or a singing school" Review and Herald July 24 1883

I can't believe she really said the above. Is this for real? I cannot continue to belong to a religion which promotes views like that.

Context, context, context.

[carolaa]

Not only context, but balance. There are also EGW quotes promoting the idea of having groups of singers lead the song service (praise teams, anyone?) and a story of James White walking down the center aisle singing and clapping his hands.

[Woody]

Quote:

and clapping his hands

I pray it wasn't in an Adventist Church.

(please provide a reference)

[lazarus]

Quote:

and clapping his hands

I pray it wasn't in an Adventist Church.

(please provide a reference)

LOL

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Quote:

and clapping his hands

I pray it wasn't in an Adventist Church.

(please provide a reference)

LOL

I had heard that not only did he clap his hands, but he was thumping on his bible to the rhythm and beat of the rousing hymm that was playing... Clearly an example and case for drums in a church...

But I am sure that many will not believe that it was possible... Oh, well...

BTW, Pastors, are there drums in your churches?

[there buster]

yup

[LifeHiscost]

If I were to answer that question myself ... I would say that it is up to each person to compare her words to scripture like she wanted us to do.

Are you saying we should refer to Hezekiah 4:16?

"Thou shalt not clap any hands while in the sanctuary or thump any bibles in the presence of dignataries!" teehe

Regards!

[nuff sed]

I get a little tired of hearing "I've never attended a 'Celebration' church but I've heard........................" Attend one before you join in "damning" them...perhaps you will change your mind.....

My church, Forest Lake Seventh-day Adventist Church in Apopka, Florida is about as conservative as you get.............but they do have one of their four services which is more contemporary.

I can only look back at my late son, Randy's experience. Many was a Sabbath when he wouldn't move himself out of bed to attend the church we attended.( He was in his 20's) We seldom knew where he was on Friday nights. Yet, when he was living in Atlanta he would drive 90 miles on a Sabbath morning to attend the new "Celebration-style" church in the Chattanooga area. When the church was finally officially organized he became a charter member and got up and told what the church meant to him. Go figure.

[Neil D]

Don,

I am SOOOO glad you posted that experience. There seems to be an awakinging especially from the younger generation that a person is who he is, and the whole person is spiritual as he experiences live.

Most TRADITIONAL churches will sing songs ABOUT Christ...Many CONTEMPORARY churches will sing songs TO Christ...There is a subtle difference, and what I want to point out with great emphasis, BOTH STYLES OF WORSHIP ARE OK.....which one is best for you, depends upon where a person is at spiritually.

It's been my experience that traditional members tend to be a bit defensive about contemporary churches...and, in my humble opinion, they're gonna be a bit defensive....They are the ones who are out of step with humanity....and they seems to be loosing members to the more contemporary church.

Now, that may seem a bit harsh in the assessment of churches, but humanity wants a hands on experience with everything that it does. Contemporary Adventist churches tend to be far more 'hands on' in their spiritual experiences, where as traditional churches like to skirt around the spiritual experience but go thru the motions...

Some of us have grown to see these things...others have not...neither style is wrong...but each style tends to help the other grow....

I know that I am steping in a field that is full of cow-pies and that I can expect the need to clean my feet.....

[Woody]

At our church ... we have the music videos and singing the modern / contemporary fast paced music. It is followed up by the most opposite kind of music you could imagine. Southern Gospel. For those of you who don't know about it ... What you do is sing two or three words at the most. You then pause ... take a big breath and then sing another two or three words. Getting through an entire song is a real challenge. Then at the end of the service ... they had a traditional song with the piano. I praised God for that.

I just don't know how my wife managed all that variety. She was up with the youth praise team. When it came time for the Southern Gospel songs ... they had this weird look on their face. HOW do we do THIS ??

The good thing about all this is that there was something for everyone to be happy about. That makes the pain worth it.

[carolaa]

OK, this is how rumors get started. You are correct: James White was thumping on his Bible, not clapping, as I stated. Here is the reference which someone requested. I am actually quoting from the songbook, Advent Singing.

"Elder W. A. Spicer, secretary of the General Conference from 1903-1922, and then president from 1922-1930, remembered as a boy hearing Elder James White (1821-1881) sing this hymn ["When I Can Read My Title Clear"]. Spicer tells about it in his book, Pioneer Days of the Advent Movement, published in 1941.

'I remember well, as a boy, sitting in our church waiting for the preacher. Our backs were to the street door through which the minister must enter. Then suddenly the silence would be broken by a sweetly musical and strong, sure voice, singing a familiar hymn. I can see the singer now, James White, silver-haired, coming down the aisle, beating time on his Bible, and singing -- ...'"

[Nan]

I get a little tired of hearing "I've never attended a 'Celebration' church but I've heard........................"

This should apply to lots of things, Don. I am not sure we call them celebration churches in this country, but my home church (don't get there as often as I would like) would probably rate as celebration in some ways, and I do not think the worship style is approved by the most oonservative of local SDAs. The last couple of weeks we have made it there, and it has been great joy to have enthusiastic singing, which is accompanied by drums.

(I found the earlier references on a very conservative site obviuously - was interested to get others' take on the subject).