LifeHiscost Posted November 3, 2007 Author Posted November 3, 2007 I get a little tired of hearing "I've never attended a 'Celebration' church but I've heard........................" Attend one before you join in "damning" them...perhaps you will change your mind..... Interesting reaction. I'm assuming the words "you...damning them" is referring to a particular person/s using particular phrasing. Hope it would be kosher in the immediate context to provide the phraseiology alluded to that makes it appear that someone is "damning" those refered to as Celebration". It has been said, "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder". Contrariwise it could also be said, "Ugliness is in the mind of the beholder". "To the pure [in heart and conscience] all things are pure, but to the defiled and corrupt and unbelieving nothing is pure; their very minds and consciences are defiled and polluted." Titus 1:15 AMP Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted November 3, 2007 Author Posted November 3, 2007 [quote=Neil I know that I am steping in a field that is full of cow-pies and that I can expect the need to clean my feet..... Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Neil D Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 Originally Posted By: Neil I know that I am steping in a field that is full of cow-pies and that I can expect the need to clean my feet..... Or at the very least, not to eat with unwashed hands. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
LifeHiscost Posted November 3, 2007 Author Posted November 3, 2007 The good thing about all this is that there was something for everyone to be happy about. That makes the pain worth it. Amen for a voice of sanity. I'm not sure whether this experience I'm about to divulge fits into certain types of music, however it has helped me to appreciate almost any music presented with the object in the mind of the presentor to glorify the Lord, even the little drummer boy's offering. As a very young adolescent I was schooled in central California, with the amazing opportunity to attend at least one school year in a class called musical appreciation. During that hour the class was given a verbal history of various types of music, including the grandest of past masters on down to the "fiddle and the bow" of Appalachia. Then we had time to just listen to those masterful offerings from recordings of that day. To this day, except for where the fervor of the presentors reveals more self aggrandizement than the gift to an Almighty God, I now enjoy many forms of music others might consider less than inspired, because the heart of the presentor is reaching out to God with the best they have to offer Him. And somehow I believe the God of love and mercies has a great deal of appreciation for the effort, while a large amount of the children of the kingdom sit in horror if not direct condemnation. "And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matt 8:11,12 KJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Dr. Shane Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 Our church had an electric guitar and bongo drums up front with the regular violin and wind instruments. Is that celebration? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Dr. Shane Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 Ana Laura's dad Ariel Chavez spoke to our Men's group this morning and shared the experience many contemporary churches are having. It is, for the most part, very positive. The issue is being relevant in one's culture. The traditional services still have their place because there are still people that prefer that. He stated that we are to be "united not uniform". However it is not just a matter of changing format. It is about getting active. These contemporary churches try to get their members, mostly youth, involved in music, singing and acting lessons. Not only do they use contemporary music but they have a lot of skits or plays. Active churches grow. Members are not just passively attending but actively part of what is going on. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
LifeHiscost Posted November 5, 2007 Author Posted November 5, 2007 Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost It would be at least 50% better off if this attitude were restricted to the dyed-in-the-wool Traditionalists, instead of being spread throughout the proud hearts of all who hold themselves up as "If only every one else would do it as I see it, the church would be so much nicer to live with". I am not sure what you are getting at. Could you expand this a bit, without the bible texts? To expand without Bible texts (or at least thoughts or principles of the Word) is giving my opinion alone and has no validity beyond anyone else's. I suppose the gist of the message is that the pride and hypocrisy of the scribes and the pharisees is matched by the pride and hypocrisy of the persons who take them to task for their pride and hypocrisy. "Every man's way is right in his own eyes,But the LORD weighs the hearts." Proverbs 21:2 NASB Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Neil D Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 Quote: To expand without Bible texts (or at least thoughts or principles of the Word) is giving my opinion alone and has no validity beyond anyone else's. Absolute rubbish! To deny one's opinion is to deny the humanity of the person giving the opinion. It is also to deny the God given right to autonomy. What you are opinioning about is authortarian-ism in the extreem and denying yourself [and others who you come into contact with] true growth in the exchange of ideas. Quote: I suppose the gist of the message is that the pride and hypocrisy of the scribes and the pharisees is matched by the pride and hypocrisy of the persons who take them to task for their pride and hypocrisy. So, an offending person would never be told that he was offending due to the pride and hypocrisy of the one who critized the offending person.... Result, the offending person never grows, and the one who is offended never grows...Gee, if ever there was a "danged if you do, and danged if you don't" connundrum..... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Woody Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 Neil ... I am afraid that I have to agree with you to a point... about the Bible texts. Throwing out a bunch of Bible texts out of context is like speaking in tongues. It is confusion. Unless there is some attempt at putting them in context and having some type of interpretation ... all we get is confusion. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
nuff sed Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 At our church ... we have the music videos and singing the modern / contemporary fast paced music. It is followed up by the most opposite kind of music you could imagine. Southern Gospel. For those of you who don't know about it ... What you do is sing two or three words at the most. You then pause ... take a big breath and then sing another two or three words. Getting through an entire song is a real challenge. " I don't know what you were listening to but it doesn't sound like any 'Southern Gospel' that I have listened to ( and happen to like). I sounds like some of the contemporary stuff and some of what I hear when I attend Pentecostal churches. Quote
Woody Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 Gladussee ... you may be right. I am not an authority on it. But I can only go by what I was told. And then it may just be the style of the person who is leading it. He is a great musician. He plays the guitar very professionally. In fact he is well known in this area for his ability. But it is far too slow for me. I am not making it up. He sings at the most ... three words before pausing and taking a big breath.I counted them. I don't mind it with his solos. But to follow it with congregational singing is almost impossible. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
nuff sed Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 Redwood: Take a look at www.christiantuner.com/southerngospel then click on "All quartets radio" and see what you get Quote
olger Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 I enjoy our worship. Sorry. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
LifeHiscost Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 It is also to deny the God given right to autonomy. What you are opinioning about is authortarian-ism in the extreem and denying yourself [and others who you come into contact with] true growth in the exchange of ideas. And that's your opinion, for which you have every right to express. As to its' authority, it has none above the Word. There is no peer in Authority to the Word, and without the Word there is no freedom to express yourself. "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak." John 12:49 NKJV "Pilate, therefore, saith to him, `To me dost thou not speak? hast thou not known that I have authority to crucify thee, and I have authority to release thee?'" John 19:10 YLT "Jesus answered, " You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin." John 19:11 NASB "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32 KJV "Jesus saith unto him, I am the....truth...." John 14:6 KJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted November 8, 2007 Administrators Posted November 8, 2007 I enjoy our worship. Sorry. So, why are you sorry that you enjoy your worship? Come to think of it, is it even possible to worship without enjoying it? Tom Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Parade Orange Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 I go to a very conservative church. They dont get along very well. We all have our own ideas about things and treat people who think differently as not as matured in Christ as us and pray when they come around to our way of thinking- it will mean they have grown in JESUS. Praise GOD. So we tolerate each other(and waiting not so patiently for them to grow in the full stature). We drive people away only cause they arent sincere. And if they do stick around- Praise GOD. ! Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
Parade Orange Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 they tolerate me and they are a few nice old ladies who still love me and encourage me. Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
Moderators John317 Posted November 9, 2007 Moderators Posted November 9, 2007 they tolerate me and they are a few nice old ladies who still love me and encourage me. Do you mean there are no men in that church who are friendly and loving toward you? How about the pastor? If you were in Southern CA, I would hope you could come visit our church and I would invite you home for Sabbath dinner, etc. I live near Loma Linda. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Parade Orange Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 U R soo sweet! Thanku Thanku! Well we do have some nice men in little country church but the men are very arms length with me and maybe with each other. There is no support,accountability, trust, and connection among the men that I can see here. You know the type! they are well represented here also! Lone Ranger christians!!! dont get to close! u might see what they struggle with! eeeks God help em! and me Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
Moderators John317 Posted November 9, 2007 Moderators Posted November 9, 2007 I'm just really glad to see you on CA, Orange. I didn't "see" you for a while. About the lack of support, accountability, trust and connection among the men-- have you expressed your feelings about this to the local pastor or local head elder? It may not do any good, but they should know how you feel about it, and I for one would like to know how they respond to you. In so much of the things Ellen White wrote about the local churches, she would say things like, "Draw close together..." And of course the New Testament teaches that having love for each other is one of the primary ways the world will know Jesus is who He claimed to be. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Dr. Shane Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 I am the director of men's ministry in our church and men, in general, want to keep others at arm's length. Men tend to live in isolation. Often times a man's wife is the only person he allows to really get to know him. While this is "normal" for men, it is nonetheless unhealthy. I contrast this with the relationship men have with each other in Alcoholics Anonymous. Men regularly hug each other, bare their souls to each other and also go out to ball games, hunting and other "masculine" activities together. In my view, the ex-drunks of Alcoholics Anonymous are much more healthy than most men we find in churches, regardless the denomination. My goal in men's ministry is to make progress closer to what I find in AA. It is really a high and lofty goal but something I am working toward. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted November 9, 2007 Administrators Posted November 9, 2007 Shane, I think that is a great idea and a worthy goal. I have a picture in my mind of the 1st century believers bonding together like that. I worked for a time in a former life in a hospital based alcoholism treatment unit and I attended AA meetings from time to time with some of our patients. So I know exactly what you mean. As a consequence of that I have often said I would love to see and be a part of a church body that could function on that level of openness, intimacy, support and acceptance. I can only dream of being able to stand up in church and say, "Hi! My name is Tom. I am a (name your specific sin addiction(s))" and be met with a loud chorus of "Hi Tom! Glad you're here!" And wouldn't it be great to get a call from your personal church sponsor when you miss a meeting. Or better yet, that he would come and get you to drag your sorry butt out of the hole you are in that keeps you from showing your face to the only group that really accepts and understands that dark and stinky hole of sin you keep getting sucked into. Church - a place where real sinners are truly welcome! Now there is a novel idea, sadly... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Parade Orange Posted November 10, 2007 Posted November 10, 2007 good reading here lately! thanx its nice to be seen! My minister( I thinks he is the 4th in 9 years) is very much arms length and doesnt like to be challenged. God told me not to try to get close to him. He has enough on his plate dealing with my church. I pray for him. He couldnt handle what I struggle with.He cant handle what he struggles with. whatever that masculine macho machismo patriachiol sin he deals with. Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
Parade Orange Posted November 10, 2007 Posted November 10, 2007 o yes talking to the head elder u asked John 317! well the head elder dont like the minister. He has a problem with his sermons. whatever. I understand why he has a problem but sooo what! (all style and no substance) at least he shows up Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
Parade Orange Posted November 10, 2007 Posted November 10, 2007 BTW the only minister that head elder liked was the one that didnt want to get involved in the church life- he just let the head elder do what he wants. like openly exclaiming in front of the entire congregation that he didnt like the way a young lady was dressed. disaproved of a new christian man using an electric bass in 'special music' . It was the only instrament he had and played and he sang Via Delorosa. but it wasnt a 'church approved instrament' ! I guess I will the kazoo at home. Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
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