confustion

[Woody]

John317 says ...

Quote:

It's important to remember, however, that the Bible does contain a number of indications that there would be a "delay" of Christ's return.

Ellen White feels differently from that opinion.

Quote:

" But like the stars in the vast circuit of their appointed path, God's purposes know no haste and no delay." DA 32

[Woody]

Quote:

For another, if we were told Christ would not return for hundreds or thousands of years, we would tend to put off getting ready for it.

I've never been able to understand this philosophy. I've heard of it before. But, can you tell me ... what it is that you would be "putting off"?

For one thing ... we could die at any time. Our time on this earth would end. We need to be right with Christ NOW. It does not matter WHEN Christ comes. We need to know Him NOW.

And ... can you tell me what it is that one would need to "DO" before the Lord comes ... other than love, know, and accept Him. How does the date or time of His coming affect this? IF you believe in Christ ... why would you say .. "Oh he is not coming for years ... so I think I will stop believing in Him until the time is closer" ?

This whole idea seems so unrealistic. It is stupid to put it in simple terms. I just can't see ANY Christian believer thinking this. It makes NO sense. Am I just too sheltered ?? OR what?

I do hope you can explain it to me because I keep hearing this statement and it causes me to shake my head.

[Neil D]

Now ... to the last suggestion of Neils ...

Quote:

I suggest a small group study...with a different church entirely and present your evidence of your faith....it will do much to help yourself...

I would hope you don't see the need to present "evidence". Just preach JESUS. The rest will come. But don't feed a baby meat. Give them milk first. Perhaps I have misunderstood Neil's comment and he meant to witness of Jesus rather than 'evidence' of church doctrine. I can hope.

And keep in mind that our mission is not to convert Christians .... it is to convert those who DON'T know God.

My concern is that if this guy presents ADVENTIST bible truth in a non-adventist bible study, [of which, for his edification he needs to do so, he should come away with a couple of clear understandings....1] not all Christians are Adventist [for some, this is a "duh" statement, but for others this may be a revelation in itself] 2] even non-adventist Christians still will follow the bible 3] non-adventist Christians are [hopefully] more interested in relationship principles than doctrinal issues and yet, they can still be Christian...and on thier way to the promised land.

It would be an exercise in maturing for Christ....and learning to be tolerant of other's beliefs...

And as for the Spiritual Milk/meat diet, Red, don't you worry your pretty little head about that...Many Adventist need to eat more meat rather than have a spiritual milk diet...which I am SURE will fly into the face of our health message in some way...

[Neil D]

Quote:

For another, if we were told Christ would not return for hundreds or thousands of years, we would tend to put off getting ready for it.

I've never been able to understand this philosophy. I've heard of it before. But, can you tell me ... what it is that you would be "putting off"?

[snip]

How does the date or time of His coming affect this? IF you believe in Christ ... why would you say .. "Oh he is not coming for years ... so I think I will stop believing in Him until the time is closer" ?

This whole idea seems so unrealistic. It is stupid to put it in simple terms. I just can't see ANY Christian believer thinking this. It makes NO sense. Am I just too sheltered ?? OR what?

I do hope you can explain it to me because I keep hearing this statement and it causes me to shake my head.

Me too...I have wondered this for many a year...but never had it verbalized before...

Ok, maybe since there is so much talk about that, and since Christ hasn't come, maybe I should start talking this way? My Lord delayeth His coming, so I will go out and eat drink and be merry.....

[/tic] [Red, pls note. I spelled it correctly this time!]

[Woody]

I don't know about all this agreement between us Neil. What is happening?

And I do apologize for the "meat" analogy. I should have said "vege meat". I forgot the audience for whom I was speaking. I don't want to offend the sensitivities of vegetarians.

[John317]

Quote:

For another, if we were told Christ would not return for hundreds or thousands of years, we would tend to put off getting ready for it.

I've never been able to understand this philosophy. I've heard of it before. But, can you tell me ... what it is that you would be "putting off"?

Matt. 24: 48-51: Jesus said, "But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,' and shall begin to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day when he doe not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, and shall cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; weeping shall be there and the grinding of teeth."

2 Peter 3: 3-4: "Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, 'Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.'"

Read 3 T 255; 8 T 252; 1 T 101, 102, 277; TM 237-8.

[Woody]

Excuse my ignorance ... but I still say WHY? WHY would it matter to a Christian WHEN Jesus comes. We must be ready NOW. His coming for US could be at ANY second.

Our life on this earth could end NOW. That would be our coming. The next thing we would know ... he would be waking us up.

[Morning Glory]

Dear Truth,

I have enjoyed reading thru this thread and all of the posts. Thank you for bringing up such an important topice to discuss. I agree with the advice/ opinions that you study the Word of God first.

In regards to your question as to how you will know that it is the Spirit of God who is impressing you as you read the Bible.......before you begin your study, pray for the Holy Spirit to guide you and help you to understand what you are reading. I have been amazed when I have prayed this prayer....what I had read and did not "get", after that prayer it was as if my mind had cleared and when I reread the text in question, the meaning was perfectly clear!!

I can understand your concern in regards to having been "led" into the new age movement in the past. Before you even open your Bible, pray the armour of God (Ephesions 6:11-17) to be applied to you, and also for the Spirit of God to help you to understand what you are reading. See, in praying the prayer for the whole armour of God to be applied to you you are asking for protection for your head: your mind and understanding are encased in your head. The principalities and powers of darkness seek to influence our minds, thinking, and decision making. God promises in this text to protect it for HIM.

"Grid or belt your middle with truth"......you know, that deep "gut feeling" that we get when we KNOW deep within that something is right or wrong......you can't say how you know, you just do. God protects that gut feeling for HIM.

"Having the breastplate of righteousness": Literal protection for our hearts, the organ that pumps blood throughout our bodies and thus keeps us alive. Many peoples have used the referrence of "heart" which is really our higher level of brain function which would literally be included in the Mind/ Brain. But here, I believe we are praying for God to protect our bodies, and internal organs to keep us healthy. It is difficult to comprehend deep sprirtual things when we are not well.

Our "feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of truth": that wherever we "walk", in our daily lives which does not always include the "spiritual", for us to walk/ behave in the way that God would want us to. Our infuence on others at work, home, friends, people with whom we do business. Always ready to share the love of God with them.

"Taking the shield of faith": Combines all of the above, in my opinion in that "we walk by faith and not by sight." All of our questions and doubts will not be explicitly answered in this life. There are a lot of things that we must accept by faith when we are convicted of God to do so. All of the evidence for evolution will probably NOT be disputed, for instance. But, if you honestly believe what the Bible teaches about creation, then that is a truth you must hold onto by FAITH.

Faith is "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1. We are to live by faith in God, whom we have not seen, by faith in the life and death of Jesus for our sins, whom we have not literally seen. For, if we "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved"!!! Acts 16:31.

I pray for the protection of God in your life, and for the Holy Spirit to guide you as you continue to search out the Truth that God wants you to have.

Morning Glory

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Quote:

For another, if we were told Christ would not return for hundreds or thousands of years, we would tend to put off getting ready for it.

I've never been able to understand this philosophy. I've heard of it before. But, can you tell me ... what it is that you would be "putting off"?

Matt. 24: 48-51: Jesus said, "But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,' and shall begin to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day when he doe not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, and shall cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; weeping shall be there and the grinding of teeth."

Please note: Slave beats his fellows slaves and becomes very glutenious and says the master is not coming. What about the slave that says the master is not comming and does NOT do all the mean things and does NOT eat glutenous-ly?

2 Peter 3: 3-4: "Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, 'Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.'"

Again, the mockers follow thier lusts, IOWS, they are living glutenously. They do not believe, and thier actions reflect their beliefs...But what about those of us who say that the Master delays, and yet continues to go to church, continues to evangelize and lives an upright life? His belief mirrorrs his actions...

[snip]

Oh, and Red....have you taken the temperature of Hell lately????

[John317]

Excuse my ignorance ... but I still say WHY? WHY would it matter to a Christian WHEN Jesus comes. We must be ready NOW. His coming for US could be at ANY second.

Of course it shouldn't matter to a Christian WHEN Jesus comes, but we're dealing with human nature as it is, not how it ought to be. Many people have the idea that they can go on sinning and stop when they see the signs of Christ's coming. People have told me this. They are obviously wrong, but that's how many people's minds work.

You also have people who may not SAY Christ has delayed His coming, but their actions prove that this is what they really believe.

Quote:

Our life on this earth could end NOW. That would be our coming. The next thing we would know ... he would be waking us up.

Both the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy both make it clear that, human nature being what it is, people tend to put off what they think is not immediate. I am talking about putting off getting ready for the Second Coming. Many don't even realize it's necessary to "get prepared" for it. They think all a person needs to do to be prepared for Christ's return is be "justified." That's false. If that was all that's necessary to be ready for Christ to return, He could return right now. Read 2 Peter 1: 1-11.

Think of the freeing of the Israelite slaves from Egypt as their justification. They were freed from slavery, as justification (dying in Christ to sin) frees us from sin. But they disbelieved in God's promises to defeat the giants. They refused to go further and consequently almost all of those who came out of Egypt died in the desert. They never made it to the Promised Land. "They could not enter in because of unbelief" (Heb. 3: 19).

[Gerr]

I think the reason many have issues with the SOP is because of some statements or predictions that were made that turned out to be false (ie the shut door, or the world will not see the year 2000). Some of these things the SDA leaders refuse to address. They want to sweep it under the rug and hope it goes away. It won't.

The subject has been dealt with. If you care to read the explanation, start with Herbert Douglass" "Messenger of the Lord" on the "shut door" issue. As for her alleged plagiarism, start with Robertson's "The White Truth", which was actually published before Walter Ray's "The White Lie." As for her alleged borrowing of the health message, a charge made in Ron Number's book, see Drs. Brand & McMahon's answer with their book "The Prophet and her Critics". The former is a scientist with a PhD in Biology, and the latter a physician. There are others who have written in her defense. F.D. Nichol, Veltman, and others. My former pastor has just submitted a manuscript for publication showing how fast and loose Walter Ray was in trying to prove the copying charge. Furthermore, several years ago, the GC hired a law firm who were, as I recall & understand, experts in copyright laws. The charge of plagiarism was not confirmed. Also, bear in mind that no author or publisher in EGW's time ever charged her with plagiarism.

With mounting evidence that disproves the charge of plagiarism, the tactics against the Lord's messenger has changed somewhat. The last 2 Adventist Forums I attended in Southern California which featured Dr. Jenks & Walter Ray. I heard not a word about plagiarism. What I heard instead were charges leveled against her character, about her alleged lavish lifestyle, etc.

Since even the Bible has its detractors, it is no surprise that prophets would have the same. In fact, I don't know of a Biblical prophet that did not have a hard time, even persecuted, stoned and killed.

Gerry

[Woody]

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They think all a person needs to do to be prepared for Christ's return is be "justified." That's false. If that was all that's necessary to be ready for Christ to return, He could return right now.

We are justified by His blood ... so if we put blood in the equation ... could you define what else we need to obtain Salvation ... I am not after a lot of fancy words ... I want something simple that a child could understand. Please just limit it to one word.

Blood + ..... = Salvation

Please help me by filling in the blank so I can visualize how this works. I want to make sure I understand you correctly.

[Woody]

Quote:

The subject has been dealt with. If you care to read the explanation, start with Herbert Douglass" "Messenger of the Lord" on the "shut door" issue. As for her alleged plagiarism, start with Robertson's "The White Truth", which was actually published before Walter Ray's "The White Lie." As for her alleged borrowing of the health message, a charge made in Ron Number's book, see Drs. Brand & McMahon's answer with their book "The Prophet and her Critics".

As I have already mentioned ... you might want something more current. All those books were written years ago and are old hat. Try something new that was written THIS YEAR in a scholarly fashion .

MORE THAN A PROPHET ... by Graeme Bradford

[Gerr]

I have not heard or seen that bood, RW. Besides, I was just responding to Pacnurse post which seemed to imply that those issues have not been dealt with.

Gerry

[Gerr]

"As for EGW, study her writings and compare it with Scripture and the Holy Spirit will let you know whether she is a false or true prophet."

Thanks for the advice, but how will the Holy Spirit let me know??? I cannot rely on feelings. Feelings brought me into the New Age movement. Please tell me how?

If it is your intention not only to know but to do His will, you will know, the Spirit will convict you, and it won't be by feeling, whether EGW's teaching is of God or of the devil. See John 7:17.

Gerry

[Woody]

And once all that is done ... you will have some sincere people who think she is of the Devil and some who think she is an infallible prophet. And there are all thoughts inbetween. What we need is tolerance for all those who see things differently. Issues like this are not salvational. There WILL be some who are saved without EGW. Down through the centuries .... people have been saved without her. I think it will continue. They will just miss out on much. But when they get to heaven they can catch up along with all the thousands of years of other people will do.

Praise God we are saved because he did and died.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Thanks for all the answers. Unfortunately there are no clear-cut answers, but I appreciate your attention. I ve got some more questions on matters I don t quite understand. First I want you to know that it is not my intention to discredit Ellen White, I believe she was Gods messenger, but I just have to ask these questions in order to clear my mind. Correct me if i am wrong but isn t it true that since 1844 there has been going on an investigative judgement going on?And isn t it true that every hidden feeling and all the selfish acts etc etc. will be exposed to the universe? Isn t it true that this investigative judgement is not necessary for God, because he already knows who s lost and who is not, but that it is meant for the universe to show that God judges righteously?

Then i wonder, if every person's life is going to be investigated, and every character will be exposed, taking 1 day for 1 person, which is kind of short, it would take about a couple of million years before the investigative judgement is over? Actually that seems a little bit longer than i expected,

Hopefully somebody can help me out,

thanks in advance!

[John317]

Thanks for all the answers. Unfortunately there are no clear-cut answers, but I appreciate your attention. I ve got some more questions on matters I don t quite understand. First I want you to know that it is not my intention to discredit Ellen White, I believe she was Gods messenger, but I just have to ask these questions in order to clear my mind.

There is nothing wrong with sincere, honest questions, of course. In fact, if people don't have some questions and if they don't sincerely seek for answers to those questions, it can be harmful in the long run.

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Correct me if i am wrong but isn t it true that since 1844 there has been going on an investigative judgement going on?And isn t it true that every hidden feeling and all the selfish acts etc etc. will be exposed to the universe? Isn t it true that this investigative judgement is not necessary for God, because he already knows who s lost and who is not, but that it is meant for the universe to show that God judges righteously?

You are right that the Investigative Judgment is not for the purpose of informing God of anything. It has a lot to do with Satan's charges against God and with the fact that the whole universe is interested in how God is dealing with sin and rebellion.

A close friend of mine, an SDA pastor, Bradley Williams, wrote a book recently that answers your questions. It's entitled, The Silencing of Satan, The Gospel Of the Investigative Judgment, and can be purchased or ordered at the Adventist Bible Center. See this link: http://investigativejudgmentgospel.org/

Many of the questions you have about the Investigative Judgment are answered at this link: http://investigativejudgmentgospel.org/My_Homepage_Files/Page3.html

Quote:

Then i wonder, if every person's life is going to be investigated, and every character will be exposed, taking 1 day for 1 person, which is kind of short, it would take about a couple of million years before the investigative judgement is over? Actually that seems a little bit longer than i expected,

Hopefully somebody can help me out,

thanks in advance!

Time is not the critical factor. It is not the reason that Christ hasn't yet come. After all, Christ could have come shortly after 1844 if the church had cooperated with Him. It was the same with the children of Israel: God intended that they would enter right into the Promised Land instead of wandering in the wilderness for 40 years. They wandered because of unbelief/disobedience. They refused to believe that God could cause them to be victorious over the giants. They thought the giants were too big to be conquered. Their God was too small.

The reason Christ hasn't come yet is that His church-- made up of those who claim to belong to Him-- isn't ready, and God is waiting for people to make up their minds and become so settled into the truth about who He is and whether they really want to serve Him, that they can't be moved. There are still millions of people sitting on the fence, who are not yet convinced that Satan is wrong. If Christ were to come today, there are many who would be lost, even very many in the church. That's the reason Jesus waits. He's giving people, both inside and outside of the church, an opportunity to hear the true gospel and come to a saving knowledge of God.

Regards,

"John 3: 17"

[Woody]

Quote:

There are still millions of people sitting on the fence, who are not yet convinced that Satan is wrong. If Christ were to come today, there are many who would be lost, even very many in the church. That's the reason Jesus waits.

This is a traditional view of some. And I don't mean to find fault with it ... but I tend to view it differently as follows:

I look at this through the eyes of Ellen White and a great book that I would recommend ... "The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan".

Christ knows our hearts. He knows what our decisions are and would be. This is what He bases it on ... not our works of knowledge or actions.

What I am getting at is Christ has not come yet because He in His wisdom feels that the Universe and us on Earth need to see the results of sin.

The reason for this is that we need to be so aware of Satan's ways that we would Never again decide to rebel against God. And we have that assurance it will not happen ... because of exactly what we are going through here on earth.

WE are now suffering from sin so that ALL will be convinced of the terrible ways of Satan.

That is what I get from the beautiful readings of Ellen White. And I firmly believe it.

[Guest truthseeker007]

John thanks for the link. One clear cut answer from one of your links: "God is, if he chooses to be, above and outside

of our understanding of time. To Him a thousand years may seem as a day and a day may seem as the passing of a

thousand years. If God so desired, I suppose He could carry on our judgment while making time as we know it stand

still. And, therefore, following our understanding of God power to its logical ends, leads us to conclude that Kevin is

partially correct and mostly wrong".

This explanation raises a lot of New questions. 1. God says that one day may SEEM a thousand years for God and vice versa. The bible does not say that one day can BE a thousand years for God. A logical biblical unnderstanding of this verse is maybe that God can decide to delay the return of Jesus a thousands years just as easy as one day. If this understanding is correct than this verse is no proof that God lives beyond our "time"

2. If God decides in heaven to 'delay'time wouldn t that be a torture for the angels in heaven? I understand that some cases are quite interesting. But after person number 200492842 it gets quite boring. Furthermore, how can you show to the universe that each and every judgment is just, when the first persons presented will be viewed totally different after the 3th million person? I mean as angels have seen a million cases they will probably see all the patterns of human behaviour way differently than the first couple of persons.

No bad intentions, just wondering, i have always wondered, and without lies each of us could be a wonder

[Woody]

Quote:

Furthermore, how can you show to the universe that each and every judgment is just, when the first persons presented will be viewed totally different after the 3th million person? I mean as angels have seen a million cases they will probably see all the patterns of human behaviour way differently than the first couple of persons.

In my personal view ... there is a very simple answer to this.

We are not judged by OUR works. We are judged by the fact that we accept that Jesus did and died. If we accept Him ... then HIS robe or righteousness cover what we did. There is no need to look at our sins for they are covered by the Righteous one.

The judgment is a quick and easy process. Either you accept Jesus as your Saviour / Redeemer and you are then saved. OR you don't. You then have to rely on your own works. They will have to be measured against the Curse of the Law. And you will then fail and be lost. The law require absolute perfection. No one can claim that except Christ and His life on this earth.

Can you see how the judgment is such an easy process. But again ... we need to look and judge how sinful mankind has been so that we will never again desire to rebel against God. This is the purpose of the investigative judgment.

It is not really so much to judge if you are saved or lost ... that is readily apparent. But it is to judge ...

SIN and Satan vs God

A contrast view of this would be from Robert H. Pierson ... He made this statement :

Quote:

" He [Jesus] is waiting for His people to gain victory over sin, so that He can TRUST them with heaven".

This kind of statement would imply that all of us in this world so far are not "trusted" to be in heaven because we have not gained victory over sin.

This would seem to state that "gaining victory over sin" is the qualification for salvation. And we all know the qualification for salvation is Jesus and that He did and died. We are saved because His Robe covers us ... not because we gain victory over sin.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Hey Redwood thanks for your statement. I think this statement is very important:

"This kind of statement would imply that all of us in this world so far are not "trusted" to be in heaven because we have not gained victory over sin.

This would seem to state that "gaining victory over sin" is the qualification for salvation. And we all know the qualification for salvation is Jesus and that He did and died. We are saved because His Robe covers us ... not because we gain victory over sin."

Actually i kind of have the impression that Seventh day adventists should obey the law perfectly and do works in order to be saved. I am kind of struggling with this issue because i am not able to do the works right now and there are also some little sins i have to overcome. This makes me feel lost and actually creates a kind of anger. For example, when i succeed in keeping all the laws perfectly and i do good works, then it creates a feeling that i have earned my salvation. In contrast, when Jesus gives us grace, even while we are yet sinners, then the grace is the basis to grow and do Gods will. I actually think it is a bitter thought to know that as long as you are not perfect you are lost. I am not saying that the law is abandoned, but when we truly believe in Jesus and realise the price he has paid for us and the holy spirit convicts of sin, I don t think that anyone would kill, steal, worship on sunday etc. etc. I believe that it is wrong to live legalistically because it will increase sinning instead of decrease sinning.

[John317]

Hey Redwood thanks for your statement. I think this statement is very important:

"This kind of statement would imply that all of us in this world so far are not "trusted" to be in heaven because we have not gained victory over sin.

This would seem to state that "gaining victory over sin" is the qualification for salvation. And we all know the qualification for salvation is Jesus and that He did and died. We are saved because His Robe covers us ... not because we gain victory over sin."

Actually i kind of have the impression that Seventh day adventists should obey the law perfectly and do works in order to be saved. I am kind of struggling with this issue because i am not able to do the works right now and there are also some little sins i have to overcome. This makes me feel lost and actually creates a kind of anger. For example, when i succeed in keeping all the laws perfectly and i do good works, then it creates a feeling that i have earned my salvation. In contrast, when Jesus gives us grace, even while we are yet sinners, then the grace is the basis to grow and do Gods will. I actually think it is a bitter thought to know that as long as you are not perfect you are lost. I am not saying that the law is abandoned, but when we truly believe in Jesus and realise the price he has paid for us and the holy spirit convicts of sin, I don t think that anyone would kill, steal, worship on sunday etc. etc. I believe that it is wrong to live legalistically because it will increase sinning instead of decrease sinning.

It's not a matter of obeying in order to gain God's favor. The Israelites didn't have to obey God in order for Him to free them from Egyptian slavery. But they didn't get into the Promised Land, either. Why not? Because they refused to obey Him. They rebelled. They didn't believe that God had the power to help them overcome and defeat the giants in the land. So they perished in the desert.

We don't obey God in order to earn salvation. We obey Him because it's the right thing to do and because we love Him. Obedience to God simply demonstrates our love. As He said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." It's only by the power of the Holy Spirit that anyone can obey God's commandments.

Regards,

"John 3: 17"

[John317]

Quote:

Furthermore, how can you show to the universe that each and every judgment is just, when the first persons presented will be viewed totally different after the 3th million person? I mean as angels have seen a million cases they will probably see all the patterns of human behaviour way differently than the first couple of persons.

In my personal view ... there is a very simple answer to this.

We are not judged by OUR works. We are judged by the fact that we accept that Jesus did and died. If we accept Him ... then HIS robe or righteousness cover what we did. There is no need to look at our sins for they are covered by the Righteous one...

Yet there are lots of verses in the Bible that show that we are judged and rewarded according to our works. There is a difference between works of faith and works of the law, for one thing. Jesus performed works of faith and so do those who are truly following Him. Anyone can claim to be a follower of Christ. But does their life show it? That's what the Investigative Judgment is all about: do people's lives agree with their profession? Or does our life contradict the words of our mouth?

Does Christ's robe of righteousness cover deliberate sins that are not confessed and forsaken? Is His robe of righteousness given in order to help us continue in sin?

Regards,

"John 3: 17"

[Woody]

No need to point out extremes in this case. Those who are sincere in wanting His Robe will receive it. Those who are sincere WILL also sin but they will desire not to. His Robe WILL cover any and all deliberate sins that we bring to Him. He will in no wise cast us out. Most sins ARE deliberate. That is why we call it SIN. Will we forsake our sins? NO.

Webster has this to say about "forsake":

1.) "to QUIT or leave entirely"

2.) "to give up"

So ... the question is ... Have you now Quit entirely all sin?

Have you given up all sin?

The answer is NO.

We will continue to sin ... ask repentance ... and receive the Robe ... no matter how sincere and how hard we try ... we WILL continue to sin. So we have not forsaken it. But instead we continue to confess.

When I mentioned going to extremes ... this statement below beats all ....

Quote:

Is His robe of righteousness given in order to help us continue in sin?

Who really would believe that. Why would God want us to sin? His Robe "covers" our sins. What that does is it gives us greater motivation to go out in love and serve Him out of Thanksgiving. Good works are the means of serving and glorifying Him. We will sin in some areas and not sin in others.

If you will notice though ... fruits of the Spirit are different with everyone. They are unique. So, our good works that glorify God are unique to each of us. They all glorify God in a different way unique to us. None of us come to a place where we can measure up to the Law. WE all remain self centered. We sin in more ways than we can imagine. So ... we do continue to sin even with the Robe covering our sins.