suicide

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Does committing suicide automatically make a person "ineligible" to go to heaven?

[Woody]

The only sin that disqualifies you for Heaven is the Unpardonable sin. That sin is rejecting Jesus to the point of no return. In other words ... you no longer desire to have Jesus in your heart. Suicide can be for a number of reasons ... but it does not necessarily mean you have rejected Jesus.

[cricket]

Does committing suicide automatically make a person "ineligible" to go to heaven?

No.

[olger]

Does committing suicide automatically make a person "ineligible" to go to heaven?

I would hate to presume on the Lord's prerogative.

But, suicide does not get high marks in the Word of God

oG

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

Does committing suicide automatically make a person "ineligible" to go to heaven?

I would hate to presume on the Lord's prerogative.

But, suicide does not get high marks in the Word of God

oG

Don't stop there...neither does the love of self get high marks. Yet most Christian folks blatantly overlook this sin. No, the only sin that will cause you to miss out on heaven is the sin of unbelief.

[carolaa]

the only sin that will cause you to miss out on heaven is the sin of unbelief.

Is unbelief the same thing as grieving the Holy Spirit, because I thought that was the only unpardonable sin.

[carolaa]

So if Satan believes, which I'm sure he does, does that mean he will be in heaven?

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

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So if Satan believes, which I'm sure he does, does that mean he will be in heaven?

Now that, to me, is a home run. It reveals truth.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

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Does committing suicide automatically make a person "ineligible" to go to heaven?

I would have to agree with Olger on this one. Each case is different but when I think about those who have committed suicide in the Bible it doesn't look good.

[Dr. Shane]

This type of discussion leads into thoughts about the mentally ill going to heaven and how they are to be held accountable. But really, in some respects, we are all a bit mentally ill. By that I mean, sin has affected the mental capacity of each of us.

[Robert]

Quote:

So if Satan believes, which I'm sure he does, does that mean he will be in heaven?

Now that, to me, is a home run. It reveals truth.

Satan knows there's a God. He has seen Him. I have not seen Him, yet I believe in Him. I believe that through faith I stand absolutely perfect "in Christ".

Satan hates God even though He knows that He exists. He hates God's agape love. The sad thing is that he has convinced many folks on this forum that self-love is a Christian attribute. So instead of hating the principle of "self" he has them perpetuating sin.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

the only sin that will cause you to miss out on heaven is the sin of unbelief.

Is unbelief the same thing as grieving the Holy Spirit, because I thought that was the only unpardonable sin.

John 16:8 And He [HS], when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin, righteousness and judgment:

Sin: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me;

[John317]

So if Satan believes, which I'm sure he does, does that mean he will be in heaven?

Satan's belief is based on the mere "facts" of the case. The important question is, does that belief move Satan to repentance and turning away from his sins? Does his belief result in conversion to Christ and love for God? If not, then there is no chance that he will ever be found among the saved.

The truth is, of course, that Satan already went past the point of no return. He went past his probationary period. He made himself what he is, is "settled" into it and can't change. Tragically, most of mankind will soon pass their probationary period and come to the point where they also can't change. See Rev. 22: 11, 12.

Regards,

"John 3: 17"

[John317]

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Does committing suicide automatically make a person "ineligible" to go to heaven?

I would have to agree with Olger on this one. Each case is different but when I think about those who have committed suicide in the Bible it doesn't look good.

I agree that suicide doesn't look good from the Biblical viewpoint. Hebrews 11: 32 mentions one who committed suicide yet who will be saved. We don't know of anyone else, but it's something that we have to leave with God because only He knows the heart.

One of my father's closest friends committed suicide. He was dean of men at Loma Linda University, and before that, he had been principal of San Diego SDA Academy, La Sierra Academy, and vice-principal at Loma Linda Academy. After he committed suicide, his wife and then his daughter did the same thing. His wife had a mental illness. As a kid, I knew him as a good, Christian man and father. Only God, of course, can judge the true state of people's hearts and minds. I hope he'll be in heaven, but I know I can trust God to make the right decision because He loves him and will save him if there is any possibility of it.

Regards,

"John 3: 17"

[Tom Wetmore]

Good points John. I really don't think we can presume to see this from God's point of view. He must judge the heart, which is totally out of our view. We only see an outward desperate act. As Shane said, we are all mentally ill, just some are more so than others. And many of us in a real sense will die as a result of our own choices and actions even if we don't snuff out the last glimmer of life ourselves. Some of us just commit a very slow suicide by smoking or eating ourselves, or whatever, into the grave prematurely. (My wife considers my riding a motorcycle to be suicidal...) The God I love and trust will do the right thing and in the end we will be satisfied with his judgment in every single case, even though it would go against our current human perspective.

However, I disagree that suicide doesn't fair well from a Biblical perspective. Since it is not addressed directly and specifically I think the Bible is inconclusive about it. As you noted, Sampson's final act appears to be disregarded and he is counted among the faithful in Hebrews. Of the 4 individuals that I can think of that apparently committed suicide, Saul and his attendant, Sampson and Judas, the Bible does not really offer any moral judgment on them because of that final act. And as Jesus said, "Do not fear the one who kills just the body, but the one that kills the soul." There is a mysterious hope in that statement by Jesus.

I believe that many who commit suicide had their souls killed by someone else long before they ended their own physical life. We who focus on only the external, want to deal with the body killers. God will deal with the soul killers and will have mercy on the innocent souls they destroyed.

Tom

[Neil D]

Every suicide that I have had aquaintance with has dealt with depression, or life dissappointments, and they all declared what they had done...IOWs, they cried out for help because they knew they couldn't get well alone...When that happens, I don't think God takes that into account as it shows that they are not thinking correctly anyway....

[Woody]

This type of discussion leads into thoughts about the mentally ill going to heaven and how they are to be held accountable. But really, in some respects, we are all a bit mentally ill. By that I mean, sin has affected the mental capacity of each of us.

Thank you Shane. Right on.

[Woody]

Thanks Tom. I like what you have said. I think you hinted on what I am about to say ...

I feel that many of those who have rejected God have actually rightfully rejected Him. The reason ?? ... because they have actually rejected the WRONG image of God. And thus they were correct in doing so.

Someone who kills themselves may be mentally ill in the real sense and they may be ill in the spiritual sense due to OTHERS who have misrepresented God to them. So, they did not know what they were doing.

Bottom line ... we can't judge.

[John317]

...I disagree that suicide doesn't fair well from a Biblical perspective. Since it is not addressed directly and specifically I think the Bible is inconclusive about it. As you noted, Sampson's final act appears to be disregarded and he is counted among the faithful in Hebrews. Of the 4 individuals that I can think of that apparently committed suicide, Saul and his attendant, Sampson and Judas, the Bible does not really offer any moral judgment on them because of that final act. And as Jesus said, "Do not fear the one who kills just the body, but the one that kills the soul." There is a mysterious hope in that statement by Jesus...

We're in agreement that it's best to leave it in God's hands because we can't judge people's hearts and minds. We can know when behavior is wrong, but we can't know the motives or the reasons why people do what they do.

However, suicide is a form of despair and usually can be interpreted as a lack of faith in God rather than trust in God. Suicide is a violation of God's commandment, "You shall not murder." Further, the Bible says that we don't belong to ourselves but that God owns us because he not only created us but paid for us with His own blood; so, from the Biblical viewpoint, we can't assume we have a right take our own lives.

I don't see any reason to believe that Saul and Judas will be saved. Saul died, unrepentant, in rebellion and disobedience against God, and Judas was never converted. Jesus Himself called Judas "a devil." The Bible testimony about Judas is that he "turned aside, to go to his own place," i.e., where he deserved; that he was possessed by Satan at the time of his death, and that he "was doomed to [eternal] destruction" (John 6: 70; Acts 1: 25; John 13: 27; 17: 12). Matt. 27: 3-10 shows that Judas' "repentance" was like the "sorrow" of Esau. Both were sorry for the consequences of their sin, not for the sin itself (Hebrews 12: 17). See DA 722.

If we compare the use of "destruction"-- Greek, apoleia-- we find that it refers to eternal destruction in Phil 1: 28; 2 Thess. 2: 3; 1 Tim. 6: 9; Hebrews 10: 39; 2 Peter 3: 7; and Rev. 17: 8, 11.

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And as Jesus said, "Do not fear the one who kills just the body, but the one that kills the soul." There is a mysterious hope in that statement by Jesus...

Matt. 10:28 and Luke 12: 4, 5 are encouragement to Christ's followers that when they are witnessing for Christ, they don't need to have any fear of the first death, because God will resurrect them. On the other hand, those verses are a warning to those who are living their lives as if this death is the end and there is no Judgment.

Regards,

"John 3: 17"

[aldona]

Quote:

I believe that many who commit suicide had their souls killed by someone else long before they ended their own physical life. We who focus on only the external, want to deal with the body killers. God will deal with the soul killers and will have mercy on the innocent souls they destroyed.

Amen, Tom!

That's one of the best things I've read on this thread. And it fits with what Jesus taught about hating people = murder.

aldona

[carolaa]

This type of discussion leads into thoughts about the mentally ill going to heaven and how they are to be held accountable. But really, in some respects, we are all a bit mentally ill. By that I mean, sin has affected the mental capacity of each of us.

What about those who commit suicide accidentally?

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted By: Norman Quote:So if Satan believes, which I'm sure he does, does that mean he will be in heaven?

Now that, to me, is a home run. It reveals truth.

Satan knows there's a God. He has seen Him. I have not seen Him, yet I believe in Him. I believe that through faith I stand absolutely perfect "in Christ".

Satan hates God even though He knows that He exists. He hates God's agape love. The sad thing is that he has convinced many folks on this forum that self-love is a Christian attribute. So instead of hating the principle of "self" he has them perpetuating sin.

The point I was celebrating was that it takes more than belief and Carolaa hit it right on the head!

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

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What about those who commit suicide accidentally?

Suicide: killing yourself the act of deliberately killing yourself

You have just committed an oxymoron.

[carolaa]

Quote:

What about those who commit suicide accidentally?

Suicide: killing yourself the act of deliberately killing yourself

You have just committed an oxymoron.

I get it -- as opposed to committing suicide.

Thank you for speaking the truth in love - and humor! tu

[Neil D]

However, suicide is a form of despair and usually can be interpreted as a lack of faith in God rather than trust in God. Suicide is a violation of God's commandment, "You shall not murder." Further, the Bible says that we don't belong to ourselves but that God owns us because he not only created us but paid for us with His own blood; so, from the Biblical viewpoint, we can't assume we have a right take our own lives.

Unless I am miss interpreting this statement, I think I really want to disagree with your interpretation....

Consider this verse from Jeremiah 17

9"The heart is more deceitful than all else

And is desperately sick;

Who can understand it? NASB

A suicide is not thinking correctly. It is literally sick, and those who make known that they are suicidal, are crying out for help.

What I hear you guys are saying is that due to a suicide's lack of faith in God, he is lost, since he violates the commandment and murdurs himself.

I don't think you can, legally, hold that act against someone who isn't thinking correctly. We usually get them help. I don't think a compassionate God, in the case of suicide, hold that against the sinner...

Also, how can you insist that in a pratical sense, our seniors who have lived 80,90, and even 100 years, who are dependant upon medications, and becoming forgetful, are not commiting suicide? When the price of meds become too high, or they become forgetful, and DONT take the necessary medications, is not that a form of suicide?

Perhaps I am missing something here.....