Doug Batchelor on Hell

[Nightingale]

There are different kinds of "education." Many of the people who have been used by God in wonderful ways were not "educated" in the ways of the world. How about the 12 disciples, some of the leaders in the Reformation, most of the founders of the SDA church, Wm. Miller and etc. I beleive there are important reasons why God can and does use so called "uneducated" people. Maybe they dont have to "unlearn" much of what the world teaches! Maybe they are not to proud to learn from Him. Many college educated people do enjoy listening to Doug Batchelor.

[John317]

Couldn't agree with you more. Good points.

[David Koot]

I agree with Amelia...

[David Koot]

There are different kinds of "education." Many of the people who have been used by God in wonderful ways were not "educated" in the ways of the world.

[Planey]

Sister White comments that God can use a person who has education to a greater extent than those who do not have one.

I presume she is counting herself as a prime example?

Graeme

[Stan]

I am all for education...

Have seen over the years, good passionate, soul winning pastors, become more administrative and less soul winners with more degrees.. and more wanting to share wisdom on how to fish, even though they have quit fishing...

Just my experience...

Others may have other experiences.

[David Koot]

I presume she is counting herself as a prime example?

I certainly wouldn't think so. True enough that God gave EGW the prophetic calling. Yet, once again, her role was not as an exponent of Scripture. She was not a theologian, nor did she want to be viewed as a theologian. Because of her lack of education, throughout her life she relied on editors and others.

Dave

[David Koot]

Have seen over the years, good passionate, soul winning pastors, become more administrative and less soul winners with more degrees.. and more wanting to share wisdom on how to fish, even though they have quit fishing...

Sad but true. Indeed, once a man acquires a 'Conference front,' often his work is primarily adminisrative and not actually winning souls.

But education does not need to do that. I too have been blessed with educational advantages, as well as practical experience. I am at present utilizing those advantages and experience to develop a working model for city evangelism. It is being developed by actually doing the work, applying all the training, experience and skill which can be brought to bear. And I am ever so glad for that background. It is proving extremely helpful.

Dave

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Amelia

He is good for someone and that's all that counts. Those of you out there who hold yourself to a higher intellengce and caste of people, keep that to yourself and stop belittling others.

IMO that crosses a line. No one here is attacking Doug Batchelor or anyone else. It should be very appropriate to comment about his approach, his presentations, who is receptive or not receptive to them, and why. It is not 'belittling others.' Your comment here, Amelia, could foreseeably have a chilling effect on open discussion.

Dave

I recently saw a video on a police officer, in the process of chastising a 15 year old skate boarder, say "I am not a dude!".

What I hear you saying, David, is something along the lines of that police officer..."Dude, I am not a dude!"....he said, yelling all the while.

The wise man here would say to himself, "There are at least three individuals who saying for me to lighten up...Perhaps, just maybe, I might be a bit close ...too close to this subject....and therefore need a time out."

Twould be something to concider, David....

[David Koot]

The wise man here would say to himself, "There are at least three individuals who saying for me to lighten up...Perhaps, just maybe, I might be a bit close ...too close to this subject....and therefore need a time out."

Twould be something to concider, David....

Well, all I commented on is the fact that Doug Batchelor is not educated, that his presentations do not reflect an educational background, and that they appeal particularly to those who are uneducated. And there has been wrath upon my head! Yet, that doesn't change the facts. Nor should there be such wrath. Simply an observation. It is not a put-down of Batchelor, or a personal attack.

I will comment that in some circles in Christendom, there is an anti-intellectual strain. That can be unhealthy.

Dave

[Woody]

Knowledge makes you feel important but love builds up the church.

"Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. " 1 Cor. 8:1

[Neil D]

Well, if I put it this way....tell me what you think?

Quote:

Well, all I commented on is the fact that David Koot is not educated, that his presentations do not reflect an educational background, and that they appeal particularly to those who are uneducated. And there has been wrath upon my head! Yet, that doesn't change the facts. Nor should there be such wrath. Simply an observation. It is not a put-down of David Koot, or a personal attack.

So, whatcha think, David?

[David Koot]

The way some of those in Corinth were handling 'knowledge,' without a doubt. However, the same writer said, 'Study to show thyself approved unto God, a good workman who needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth." That kind of knowledge can be very helpful. In my case, personally, I love to dig, love to discover, love to know the truth--for truth's sake, to reach the highest standards of excellence and intellectual integrity. It is thrilling to participate in such a voyage of discovery.

Dave

[Woody]

I am glad that there are some out there like you. Put in it's place .... I "think" thinkin is fine. But that is the end of my "thinkin" for the day.

[Gerr]

Doug Batchelor does have a distinctive style of presentation. His studies are not compelling intellectually, nor do they appeal so much to serious students of the Word. But he does well with a certain type of person--typically blue-collar, left-brain, high school-educated, 'black is black and white is white' mindset. Nor is that target market uniquely Doug Batchelor's. Years ago, I read studies which had been done, which seemed to indicate that the very same target market is indeed the one with which traditional SDA evangelism does well.

If I recall correctly, none of the 12 had a PhD. And the one most highly regarded as educated among them was the betrayer.

Gerry

[Robert]

If I recall correctly, none of the 12 had a PhD. And the one most highly regarded as educated among them was the betrayer. Gerry

Yes, you are right. Now Saul (who became Paul) was highly degreed. He most definitely had the equivalent of a PhD, but when he became Paul, the champion of righteousness by faith, he counted all his attainments as "dung" (see Phil chapter 3).

My point? It doesn't matter how ignorant or educated one might be because spiritual things can't be understood by the natural mind.

[ChildofChrist]

Earlier it was mentioned that when ministers become more educated, fishing experience goes out the window.

I know of one retired conference leader that climbed to the top and after retirement became a fisherman again...I am sure that there are many others.

What is important to be a soul winner is to have a burden for saving those souls.

Came across a quote about discipleship from Juan Carlos Ortiz. Discipleship is more than getting to know what the teacher knows. It is getting to be what he is."

Jesus was not 'educated' in the school of the doctors and yet they marvelled at His depth of knowledge. He was all things to all people.

[Nightingale]

The Bible is written so that even a child can understand what they need to be saved, and yet there is so much truth that the most educated can study all their life and still not know everything. Thats the beauty of it. There is room for all. Unfortunately, there are more of the ordinary people who will respond and therefore we need pastors who will reach them.

We do need pastors who know how to reach the more educated and I beleive we have some who are doing that.

[Gerr]

Education not infrequently gets in the way of the gospel, not only in its acceptance but also in explaining it. That's why God often chooses the weak so that His strength can be made manifest. Some if not many theologians strain so hard to sound erudite and so learned in their exposition of Scripture that their expositions becomes more difficult to understand than the Scripture they are trying to expound! I have seen this over and over again!

Gerry

[Kountzer]

Education not infrequently gets in the way of the gospel, not only in its acceptance but also in explaining it. That's why God often chooses the weak so that His strength can be made manifest. Some if not many theologians strain so hard to sound erudite and so learned in their exposition of Scripture that their expositions becomes more difficult to understand than the Scripture they are trying to expound! I have seen this over and over again!

Gerry

Thank you Gary. Your post articulated the response that was formulating in my mind.

[Amelia]

Education not infrequently gets in the way of the gospel, not only in its acceptance but also in explaining it. That's why God often chooses the weak so that His strength can be made manifest. Some if not many theologians strain so hard to sound erudite and so learned in their exposition of Scripture that their expositions becomes more difficult to understand than the Scripture they are trying to expound! I have seen this over and over again!

Gerry

Too a tee, thank you Gerry

[Woody]

Education not infrequently gets in the way of the gospel, not only in its acceptance but also in explaining it. That's why God often chooses the weak so that His strength can be made manifest. Some if not many theologians strain so hard to sound erudite and so learned in their exposition of Scripture that their expositions becomes more difficult to understand than the Scripture they are trying to expound! I have seen this over and over again!

Gerry

Gerry ... you get the Redwood Reward for that snippet.

[Neil D]

the Redwood Reward

Um, is the Redwood Reward sanctioned by Stan for credits for ClubAdventist credits?

[Woody]

There is no affiliation between Stan and myself.

But on occasions ... Stan has been "nominated" but so far has not received the Redwood Reward.

Gerry received a "rush" Reward due to his outstanding contribution.

And NO. I have no affiliation with Rush Limbaugh.

[Bravus]

Pendulums, people! I disagree with David's initial comments - at least in tone if not in content per se, not having listened to Doug Batchelor and not being in position to make that call.

But the pendulum swings from placing perhaps a too-high value on education to bashing education. Let's try to find some balance. Education is a tool, and like any tool can be turned to good or bad ends.

Richard Feynman, a Nobel prize winning physicist, said something like "If I can't explain it simply, I don't really understand it". People who feel their explanations need to be complicated and full of big words to show off their education are just showing that they don't really understand, IMO. But their existence shouldn't imply that education is generally a negative thing.