Why is it that adultery isn't punishable?

[Woody]

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it would be a waste of time arguing about it.

Got that right.

[Woody]

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We lead a life of sin, all of it, and nothing is unforgivable.

Party Time.

[Amelia]

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IN my eyes there is only one UNforgiveable sin with divorce ... and that is with the one who files for divorce. That IS "one-sided" fault. The person who gives up hope IS at fault.

If you don't know the circumstances you can't make that judgement.

[Woody]

If you noticed ... I prefaced it with "in my eyes". And my eyes can see things ANY way they want. lol hs

[Amelia]

Then your judgement has condemned me.

[cricket]

Originally Posted By: cricket

This belief that God overrides human will is heavily flawed. Yes, all things are possible, but God can't do anything in one's life without his or her full permission and consent. Why? Unlike the popular version of God, He cannot and will not force Himself on those who do not give permission. Our "God is agape". That love cannot and will not compel. So while what you say is true it is not the whole story.

Rob

The truth will out. Just give it time. ;-) I don't believe for a second that God will force anything on anyone. I do believe however, that given enough time, God's will will be done in the hearts of ALL.

My opinion. Not worth much here, I realize that. But, hey--whatever!

[Woody]

Then your judgement has condemned me.

You have to decide that for yourself ... just as I decide how I feel on the issues. My beliefs should not impact the way you believe.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

IN my eyes there is only one UNforgiveable sin with divorce ... and that is with the one who files for divorce. That IS "one-sided" fault. The person who gives up hope IS at fault.

Originally Posted By: Amelia

Then your judgement has condemned me.

You have to decide that for yourself ... just as I decide how I feel on the issues. My beliefs should not impact the way you believe.

Redwood, in all seriousness....this is bull-pucky...

I went to a Survivor of Death and Divorce group for a while. There were councilors who had all sorts of divorce(ed) people in there...They are named the dumper and the dumpee...Assuming that the dumper is the one who files for divorce, the reason for the dumper doing so, is as varied as there are individuals...Some have to get out of the marriage situation or they die, spiritually, emotionally and eventually physcially. It's a matter of survival...If you don't understand that, and most SDAs who condemn divorce fall into that catagory, then any sort of opinion is absolute hogwash....Which reflects quite heavily on the individual who made the outlandish divorce opinion...And the worst part about it is, ......they don't know.....

I used to be one of those who made those outlandish opinions....I don't anymore....I got tired of being stupid...

[Amelia]

On my part, my ex was the one who asked for the divorce and I told him he would then be the one filing. He moved his girlfriend into the house 3 months after I moved out. I then waited and waited for him to file. After a year of being a married but spearated women of a husband living with another woman, I filed. I got tired of waiting. Why should I hold out hope?

[Denise]

Melia,

You have the right to file for divorce, since he is living with another woman. If you don't want to wait for him, you have the right to file. You are FREE to do this. He's the one committing adultry, not you. I know if I was in that situation, it would hurt me, maybe I would hope he would come to his senses, but I know if over time, he was still with her.....I would file for divorce, and wouldn't feel bad about it, since he was the one committing adultry and not me. Melia, my daughter went through the same thing as you....he kicked her out of her own house, just to move another woman in with him....she didn't even get time to get her things....didn't have a key....and when she was able to get in...she had to face the woman's belongings, and also the new woman had the nerve to wear her clothes. Anyways, they did get a divorce, and my daughter has been single since. She was very hurt by this experience, but she is doing great now....I think it's been about 4 or 5 years now.

[Neil D]

Quote:

I went to a Survivor of Death and Divorce group for a while. There were councilors who had all sorts of divorce(ed) people in there...They are named the dumper and the dumpee.

For clarity sake, I think I will expand on this a bit....

100% of all divorces are caused by marriage. and I used to think that was funny....

In my case, after 26 years of marriage, my ex kicked me out of the house. There was no infidelity on either part. She was tired of being married. We tried for the better part of 10 years to stick it out...but it was pretty obvious that our marriage wasn't working out. Counsilors...yeah, we tried 3 different ones...I kept feeling that I was being blamed for the rockyness of the marriage...but I couldn't see what I was doing wrong...Still can't....Oh, I tried to improve the marriage....but I got the same responses and they didn't thrill me as much...and I stopped doing them....At one point in time, my ex said that the divorce option was off the table...Then we went to Austrailia...and after we came back, she informed me of her decision to divorce...There was no infidelity...I felt I couldn't rail against anything....my marriage was a failure.

I went to a group that was set up for survivors of divorce and death. There were 4 women, and me, and the male facilitator. We went thru a couple of books on how to rebuild your life...and yeah, I felt my life, my philosophy, and values were all destroyed. And unless you have felt that, lived it, all the church platitudes of divorce are empty...They don't bring comfort, and increase the anxiety of your life.

The dumpers, as mentioned in my previous post, are people who have dumped thier spouses...My ex was a dumper. The reasons for dumping a spouse are as varied as their are individuals. Some have to leave a marriage or they will die spiritually and emotionally ane eventually physically..Some are adulterers, some are the victims of adultery...But usually, the dumpers have the guilt of destroying a family unit. And that is a hard burden to bear. They have interupted a lot of family relationships between parent and child, in addition to spouses, and inlaws, and friends....oh, the friends....

The dumpees are the ones who maybe adulterers, and/or who sought out affection outside the marriage because they couldn't find it in the marriage, are self asorbed in thier work/play/obsessions that they don't see the divorce coming....they are the ones who feel they have been wronged as they feel they are the victims of an injustice. Church platitudes on divorce make them feel hatred toward thier Ex and doesn't serve them well...It is very easy for them to feel bitterness and guilt for things that just are....

So, there you have it, folks...my experience on why I feel that most of the church platitudes are absolutely worthless....

Oh, and Robert....I owe you a big appology for things that I said during your divorce while I was still smuggly married...I'm sorry for things that I have said, and for things I don't remember saying....

Oh yes, and the reason I went to the Survivors of death and divorce....I had seen a lot of bitter dumpees....and I wanted to be a gentler soul...and I needed to rebuild my life and my values....I am still a work in progress...

[Dr. Shane]

It is really none of my business, Amelia, and I don't want to pry. I have seen you state here before that you didn't have Biblical grounds for divorce yet from what you are saying here you certainly did. No Adventist pastor should refuse to marry you in the Adventist church should you decide to marry an Adventist man sometime in the future.

[Guest gem]

I never recommend divorce!

Do marriage counsillors supposed not to recommend divorce? I've been told they're not supposed to and it's up to the couple to figure it out whether to divorce or not.

[Woody]

We can talk about all the anocdotal experiences until we are blue in the face. We can talk about adultry and "what can I do ... I have to be happy" "And what about the finances" And what about this and that.

OR ... we can talk about what God wants. Even though He does not like seeing us in misery ... That is what the Great Controversy is all about folks. We are here on this earth to show what misery is. What does God prefer? He does not desire that we divorce. That is MY opinion. At the same time ... I respect and can see how some have the opposite opinion.

I've studied this topic to some degree. Most of my opinions were formed from a book I read that cemented my belief that God would not have us divorce. If anyone is interested in this book please PM me. But I realize that not many are up to nor able to follow through on this difficult challenge. For the consequences are enormous. Following conviction on this topic could cause one to suffer greatly. And NO God does not desire that for us but it is a consequences of sin. And most want to get out of such consequences. Thus the excuse "God would not want us to suffer".

I am simply sharing my personal experience in researching this topic. I would not want to push it on anyone. But, from my study I have determined that God does not want divorce under any circumstances. He will "allow" it under some specific circumstances. But it is NOT His will. So, if you prefer to do God's will ... in my opinion ... you would never divorce. Easier said than done. And like I say ... few are willing to SUFFER what it takes to follow through on this situation.

Because there are so many who do not want to suffer ... we now have the situation that we are in. Divorce is now accepted for most any reason. That is the reality. All you have to claim is 'emotional abandonment'. At least this is what I've read. No ... don't have any personal experience on that regard. But anocdotally I have come across many who have.

Yes, there is the opposite extreme also. Some of those strict Bible beating - Holier than thou types. They will want to probe into your life and not accept you if you have been divorced or get divorced. They are no better.

I am simply expressing what I believe God wants us to do in this situation. Not many are able. And I would not condemn anyone who is or has been divorced. It is just one sin in my mind. We all fall short. And we are forgiven and can move on. But, if we could only stand up for what is right ... then I think that some would take marriage more seriously and strive to work things out.

The way it is now ... most do not want to put the effort into working things out when they can just dump the spouse and try over with someone else.

Just my views for what they are worth. Which is not much.

[olger]

Very well put, Redwood. Well put indeed.

As a short illustration, my father got polio 3-months after he was married. He never walked again.

During the rehab months, my aunt asked my mother "So, are you gonna stay with him?"

Mom was suprised by the question. "Well of course!" was her answer. There was no other alternative as far as she was concerned. I like that. I'll bet you do too.

oG

[carolaa]

Because there are so many who do not want to suffer ... we now have the situation that we are in. Divorce is now accepted for most any reason. That is the reality. All you have to claim is 'emotional abandonment'. At least this is what I've read. No ... don't have any personal experience on that regard. But anocdotally I have come across many who have.

I am simply expressing what I believe God wants us to do in this situation. Not many are able.

That sounds kinda like a martyr complex to me. It's one thing to be a martyr yourself, but you also have to think of your kids, if you have any, and the kind of example you want them to see of a marriage or the kind of example you want them to see of what is appropriate to tolerate. Dysfunction will breed dysfunction unless someone steps in and puts a stop to it, whether that means a divorce or not. I don't mean any offense, but imo, anyone who says divorce is easy has not been through it. I don't think anyone, particularly a Christian, WANTS to have a failed marriage.

[carolaa]

You have to decide that for yourself ... just as I decide how I feel on the issues. My beliefs should not impact the way you believe.

I'm so glad you said that, because most people considering or going through a divorce feel plenty of guilt and failure and condemnation. It's a burden that many well-intentioned people only add to, with their unsolicited advice.

[Guest gem]

I'm so glad you said that, because most people considering or going through a divorce feel plenty of guilt and failure and condemnation. It's a burden that many well-intentioned people only add to, with their unsolicited advice.

[Woody]

This is a good example for ALL situations. We don't need to be telling someone they are sinning.

Either they KNOW it is sin and are working through it.

OR The Holy Spirit is working on them and will convict as appropriate.

I don't see it as 'our' role to be telling someone they have done wrong. We can have our personal beliefs. But we should keep those thoughts to ourselves unless asked.

Thanks Carolaa CoAspen and Gem.

[Pearly]

How about forgiveness for a starter. My dad was a womanizer but my mother never left him or divorced him. And, eventully my dad was a good husband to my mother and took care of my mother in her last days.

My dad was never a womanizer till my mother became an adventist. When my mother took off her diamond wedding ring, would not play cards anymore, and would not go dancing with him or drink a glass of beer once in a while, his thinking was that she had divorced him and married the church.

Pearly

[Woody]

Quote:

My dad was never a womanizer till my mother became an adventist. When my mother took off her diamond wedding ring, would not play cards anymore, and would not go dancing with him or drink a glass of beer once in a while, his thinking was that she had divorced him and married the church.

Put yourself in his shoes and I think you would think the same. When you take away so much of what you had in common ... what do you think would happen. I wonder if taking off the wedding ring was really worth it. If the principle is the money and the money has already been spent ... perhaps following EGW's example of going ahead and wearing the jewelry might be better.

[olger]

3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:

6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

oG

[Robert]

3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart,

In other words what's important is not the jewelry, but rather the "hidden man of the heart" (Christ). This isn't a prohibition against jewelry.

I knew many SDA who wouldn't even wear a wedding ring. Instead their status and attention was gained in other ways such as fancy, high dollar cars and fine homes. That's where their decorations were at.....What's the difference between a necklace and Porsche around your body?

[Woody]

[olger]

Bobbert.

Bible writer says A - is bad and B - is good.

night