sex before marriage?

[Neil D]

Devil's advocate mode is still on in this thread-

Quote:

they do show their love

Are you sure it is their love that they are showing, look at human history it hasn't always been like this.

[Neil D]

Devil's Advocate mode is still on-

Back to sex though...

My personal opinion is that the devil inslaves us humans, and he uses sex as a false freedom. Maybe our hormones are asking for actual freedom and love and beauty, not chemical freedom or love.

So, God is not in control of our hormones???? Surely, you are not suggesting that God is NOT in control of Christians when He wants them to behave? What causes our hormones to surge? Is this not God telling us that we need to get married?

Is this not something that we need not ponder and just rush out and get ourselves a justice of the peace/pastor and get hitched????

Frankly, I think the devil gets too much of the headlines and not enough of the back pages of the newspaper....

[Dr. Shane]

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folks get hooked on sexuality...emotions, etc. This leads to a host of other problems.

Absolutely! Many people confuse sex and emotions for love. Love = Commitment. No commitment, no love. Many believe that emotional fondness and infatuation is love. That is why they claim that after being married sometime they have lost the love or fallen out of love. Really? More likely, there was never any real love to begin with. The term "making love" is often applied to sex as if the sexual act will actually produce love. It never does, not even among those that get married first. Sex creates a physical intimacy which is part of a healthy marriage but does not result in commitment. Many silly girls have sex with their boyfriends in order to keep them or make them commit. They believe the myth that sex is making love and by having sex with their boyfriends they can make them love them.

[Neil D]

Devil's advocate mode is up and running....and on-

Quote:

folks get hooked on sexuality...emotions, etc. This leads to a host of other problems.

Absolutely! Many people confuse sex and emotions for love. Love = Commitment. No commitment, no love.

[Dr. Shane]

One need only read 1 Corinthians chapter 13 for the definition for love. It isn't a subject that is up for debate. Paul is pretty clear about it.

"Love is a sentiment so sacred that but few know what it is. It is a term used, but not understood. The warm glow of impulse, the fascination of one young person for another is not love; it does no deserve the name. True love has an intellectual basis a deep thorough knowledge of the object loved." Letters to Young Lovers page 36

Emotions have little to nothing to do with love. Like courage, love often means doing the right thing despite how we feel. As Ellen White wrote, it has an "intellectual" basis. The reason we can love our enemies is because we decide to love them, not because we feel like loving them. Love is commitment on an intellectual level regardless of how one's feelings may direct him or her.

[nishaun]

Quote:

Devil's Advocate mode is still on-

So you want your master to get less credit in the newspapers, you should be fired!

I would say no God is not in control of our hormones, I think God stays above the belt, if you read the Bible you would notice God usually focuses on emotion weaknesses.

King David and Samson could have sure used a hormone miracle.

I personally wouldn't mind some myself.

[Woody]

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The reason we can love our enemies is because we decide to love them, not because we feel like loving them. Love is commitment on an intellectual level regardless of how one's feelings may direct him or her.

[nishaun]

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this DOESN'T HAPPEN

I really don't agree different people have different ways of dying.

3000 people die everywhere, everyday!

[Neil D]

Devil's advocate mode is definately on-

One need only read 1 Corinthians chapter 13 for the definition for love. It isn't a subject that is up for debate. Paul is pretty clear about it.

[Woody]

Quote:

I majorly disagree with your assumption that love is devoid of emotions...Just because love has an "intellectual basis" doesn't mean that the emotional content is not there.....

Us men would love to make it void of emotions. How does one cope with the emotions of a woman? Don't get me started.

[Neil D]

Quote:

this DOESN'T HAPPEN

I really don't agree different people have different ways of dying.

3000 people die everywhere, everyday!

Are you sure you are not crossing threads? I have searched this thread, and don't remember talking about people dying in this "sex before marriage" thread.

On the internet, it is considered bad form to cross threads....And in some cases when it is done, it is just plain rude. We tend to observe those courtesies out of politness sake...[and speaking as a moderator, it's a good idea.]

I will hope that this is a mistake....and will ignore this post.

[Neil D]

Quote:

I majorly disagree with your assumption that love is devoid of emotions...Just because love has an "intellectual basis" doesn't mean that the emotional content is not there.....

Us men would love to make it void of emotions. How does one cope with the emotions of a woman? Don't get me started.

Oh Puuleeese, get started..... I don't want to be the only one playing devil's advocate

I

[Woody]

You're doin a fine job of being his advocate without me getting involved.

[Neil D]

Quote:

Devil's Advocate mode is still on-

So you want your master to get less credit in the newspapers, you should be fired!

[Robert]

...when disaster strikes, people put out a lot of effort to help the victims.

Some are doing it because God is in the mix...others are void of a relationship with God and so they glory in themselves and their ability to assist others. Yes, on the outside these deeds look the same, but God looks at the motive. Without God the motive is always self-centered and therefore sinful.

Matt 23:5 They do all their deeds [so called good works] to be noticed by men....

Matt 23:27 You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones.

1 Cor 13:3 If I give all I possess to the poor [a good deed outwardly]..., but have not love [agape], I gain nothing. [Why?]4 Love ... does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking....

[Robert]

Quote:

So am I to believe this tremendous pull comes from God? If that is the case then the homosexual can make the same claim, i.e., "God made me this way."

-BC- Mar

-TI- Maranatha

-CN- 83

-CT- Proof Against Every Temptation

-PR- 02

-PG- 91

"The infinite value of the sacrifice required for our redemption reveals the fact that sin [singular] is a tremendous evil. Through sin the whole human organism is deranged, the mind is perverted, the imagination corrupted. Sin has degraded the faculties of the soul. Temptations from without find an answering chord within the heart, and the feet turn imperceptibly toward evil."

What is "sin"? Self-glory...self-seeking...the love of self. In other words me, me, me. My needs...my wants...what I need. The result? You'll do whatever it takes (even look all holy) to get what you lust for. That' sin. Because of "sin" we commit sins such as murder, theft, etc, etc....

Rob

[Neil D]

devil's advocate mode-on

Originally Posted By: Neil D

...when disaster strikes, people put out a lot of effort to help the victims.

Some are doing it because God is in the mix...others are void of a relationship with God and so they glory in themselves and their ability to assist others. Yes, on the outside these deeds look the same, but God looks at the motive. Without God the motive is always self-centered and therefore sinful.

Notice that I said that mankind is a 'vessel'...that means that they carry something...I can mention a lot of good men, some did not profess the christian faith, let alone being adventist who did a lot of good works...And even if they are agnositic or atheist, whose to say that God is not using them still?

The point is, we don't know who is to be saved, nor do we know who is to be lost. SOMETIMES we have the adacity to know, but can you make that claim with certainity 100% of the time?

I didn't think so....

[Stan]

I would hope, that full members, read my post on this matter here... that forum is out of site of things like google and yahoo etc

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/172703#Post172703

[Neil D]

Devil's advocate mode-on

Originally Posted By: Neil D

What causes our hormones to surge? Is this not God telling us that we need to get married?

As a teenager my mind was on one thing and it wasn't school work. Most young men go around with a persistent erection. Where are their thoughts? Right...sex, sex, sex...girls, girls, girls....

[Robert]

Where does the bible say that men have a natural attraction to the ladies?

[Robert]

I can mention a lot of good men,

[Dr. Shane]

What we believe about premarital sex and how we treat our members or children of our members that are doing it, I think, are two different subjects.

Because premarital sex is so widely accepted and even promoted in our society, a lot of caring and compassion need to be used when dealing with this sin within the church. The offensiveness of the sin is not generally apparent to many of our members and their children because it's so acceptable in our society. I think we have to bare that in mind when dealing with the issue.

************************************************************

As far as love is concerned, Paul's definition is enough for me. Ellen White encourages us to read 1 Corinthians chapter 13 every day. I think there is a good reason for that. If we understood love as Paul did it would go a long way to dealing with many issues in our church and the world around us.

I do not see any reference to a single emotion in 1 Corinthians chapter 13. Nor do I see any reference to sex. Thus I think it safe to conclude love is not about emotion or sex. It is a principle. Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil; rejoiceth not in unrighteousness, but rejoiceth with the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Love never faileth.

Emotions are erratic. If we use emotions to make decisions we are destined to make serious errors in our lives. Premarital sex would likely be one of them. My wife and I wanted to have sex before marriage. We "felt" like it. We restrained out of principle. "Love suffereth long" That means it is patient. Love means governing one's life by principles of love rather than erratic emotions.

[Stan]

I would hope, that full members, read my post on this matter here... that forum is out of site of things like google and yahoo etc

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/172703#Post172703

Still looking for more comments there..

[nishaun]

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God didn't make us according to His will

No not really.

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Which is it?

Not sure how you got to that conclusion?

More of an admission of human weakness.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Woow a lot of answers. Maybe i started a topic that you have been hiding in your sub conciousness. Just kidding, i am not a psycho-analysist.

But i have one question about the snakes being poisonous thing. How come that their toxic seems to be designed. Was God angry after the fall and said to himself "let s make deadly snakes". Did God adjust his creation or recreated it? Why isn t the bible clear about this?