Obama's Socialist Connections

[jasd]

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Though anarchist, I find myself favoring the Republican position in more ways than I do the Democrats. That said,

I think the Republicans shot themselves in the foot with their excessive and misdirected $pending these past few years; war expenditures aside.

Big Govt? But of course! where it provides for the common defense of the people. We are spending less of our GDP than did Kennedy (by about half). Additionally,

inflation has severely impacted our defense expenditures.

The whole world is arming - and one of our presumptive nominees speak of feeding the world - while we currently commit only about four percent of our GDP to the defense of our nation and its people.

[jasd]

>>Even now we are forcing South Korea to buy our beef even though they don't want it.<<

And why not? I think it's called 'Trade Negotiations'.

They want to sell Hyundais and Samsungs, etc to us - buy our beef. They have a gripe about alleged mad cow disease in our beef, well,

sell it to someone else. They've displayed an ability to buy and sell in the international marketplace.

It may be that So Korea wishes to protect their own lucrative beef industry - much as Japan used to protect their rice farmers.

I can't work up a whole lot of sympathy for the Korean position.

[John317]

Though anarchist, I find myself favoring the Republican position in more ways than I do the Democrats.

Any plans to go to Denver? There will be tens of thousands of anarchists there, along with a great many Leftists of various shades.

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That said,

I think the Republicans shot themselves in the foot with their excessive and misdirected $pending these past few years; war expenditures aside.

That is for sure!

[carolaa]

>>Even now we are forcing South Korea to buy our beef even though they don't want it.<<

And why not? I think it's called 'Trade Negotiations'.

So when we, in effect, force them to buy our beef when they don't need it, it puts their own beef producers out of business. Then when there is a worldwide beef shortage, or for whatever reason we stop selling them as much beef, they are in a bad way.

That's essentially what we did to Haiti's rice crop. We, in effect, forced them to buy our subsidized rice (you know, a "trade agreement"), which put their rice farmers out of business, because we sold it to them cheaper than the farmers could grow it. Now here comes a worldwide rice shortage, and they are going hungry. Our answer is, here, we'll give you some rice because we are so nice and we help people in need all over the world (wink, wink). Of course, it's not enough and it doesn't solve the real problem.

Sometimes I have to agree with George Carlin that humanity is to stupid to survive much longer. Except that I'm not sure it's stupidity; I think it's just evilness.

[Neil D]

Carol-

You are SOOOOOOO right on the money.....

Thanks...for reminding us that the US is not all about heart...more often, it is about greed.

[jasd]

>>Any plans to go to Denver? There will be tens of thousands of anarchists there, along with a great many Leftists of various shades.<<

It's a hoot!

By different routes the extreme left and I meet in the tall grass. :-o

Denver? no way, hosay! too many Dems and too many shades of numbskullery; I'd go beserk.

[John317]

But most of the people in the streets demonstrating and protesting, etc., will not be Democrats, although they will be on the Left. They actually oppose both the Republicans and the Democrats. They are mostly anarchists of the far Left and various kinds of socialists, not usually of the Christian sort but of the Marxist.

[jasd]

>>So when we, in effect, force them to buy our beef when they don't need it, it puts their own beef producers out of business.<<

Since joining both the WTO and the OECD Korea became an international player having to expect, and in somee cases, accede to outside pressures to open their markets.

As far as their beef producers being put out of business – how many points did GM lose today on the DOW? How many billion$ has it lost this past quarter? What percentage of our automobile market is now cornered by Japan? Korea? other?

Que sera. What else can we say?

>>Then when there is a worldwide beef shortage, or for whatever reason we stop selling them as much beef, they are in a bad way.<<

It happens. Have you checked out the price of rice lately? Other nations have cut their exports to us. As signatories to the WTO, nations agree to accept both risk and benefit.

>>That's essentially what we did to Haiti's rice crop. We, in effect, forced them to buy our subsidized rice (you know, a "trade agreement"), which put their rice farmers out of business, because we sold it to them cheaper than the farmers could grow it.<<

That may be correct; however, I remember Haiti having to suffer the excesses of such as the Papa and Baby Duvaliers, Aristide, Préval, etc... raping and razing the country. Such leaders contributed to an 85% illiteracy rate and eschewed economic development. There is no national budget to speak of and approx 70% of Haiti’s monies is in the form of foreign aid.

It is, indeed, a tragic saga; one which can hardly be laid on America’s doorstep – rice notwithstanding.

>>Now here comes a worldwide rice shortage, and they are going hungry.<<

Are you saying that before our so-called “forceful” behaviour – Haiti was self-subsistent in rice cultivation?

>>Our answer is, here, we'll give you some rice because we are so nice and we help people in need all over the world (wink, wink). Of course, it's not enough and it doesn't solve the real problem.<<

Would other nations, which have contributed to the demise of much of our industry, be as kind as to offer to help in our extremity! It would be nice to hear, “Here, here we give you the shoes to replace those which you are no longer able to produce.” (No, they cost us $$$, none given) Or, likewise, the many other items that are no longer produced in this country.

I am not holding my breath – expecting that there may be nations beyond our borders – as generous as America.

>>Sometimes I have to agree with George Carlin that humanity is to stupid to survive much longer. Except that I'm not sure it's stupidity; I think it's just evilness.<<

I don’t often agree with Carlin; however, he seems to be spot-on in this instance. That said, there is one much wiser who said, “The poor you have with you always.” Selah.

[jasd]

>>...people in the streets demonstrating and protesting, etc.,<<

Hah! sounds fun. However, I'm stuck in the tall, tall, grass

of home.

Take lotsa photos and post a few. (I enjoyed those you posted of the area of San Pedro and Second St in Los Angeles. I 'hung' there some time ago and memories flood... It is now the pied-à-terre of the influential and the wealthy. Who'da thunk it!?)

[jasd]

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Quote:jasd

...too many Dems and too many shades of numbskullery; I'd go beserk. [ed.jasd]

(Try berserk)

Oy! just the mention of so many Dems and I’m already berserking.

[carolaa]

>>Would other nations, which have contributed to the demise of much of our industry, be as kind as to offer to help in our extremity! It would be nice to hear, “Here, here we give you the shoes to replace those which you are no longer able to produce.” (No, they cost us $$$, none given) Or, likewise, the many other items that are no longer produced in this country.

We don't know what extremity is. Comparing expensive shoes to people who are starving - eating dirt just to fill their stomachs - doesn't even make sense. But, anyway, my point was just that the U.S. government isn't as altruistic as we have been taught to believe. It may not be worse than other countries - but then again we were taught to believe that it is better.

[jasd]

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Quote:: jasd

Would other nations, which have contributed to the demise of much of our industry, be as kind as to offer to help in our extremity!

>>We don't know what extremity is.<<

Have no fear, we will, in my humble opinion, shortly know extremity – in spades. I believe Jacob’s Trouble speaks to that of Ephraim and Manasseh , which is, America primarily.

Gen 48:16 ...and let my name be named on them,...

>>Comparing expensive shoes to people who are starving - eating dirt just to fill their stomachs - doesn't even make sense.<<

I agree. I answered in kind. I haven’t the patience necessary to respond to those who continually rag America. (note: near 95% of our shoes and boots are manufactured in other countries. We, literally, no longer have either the machinery or the capability to manufacture our own)

>>But, anyway, my point was just that the U.S. government isn't as altruistic as we have been taught to believe.<<

I don’t know how you were taught, but I was taught to believe in the generosity of my country – and have seen that generosity borne-out often enough to have never been disappointed – except when We the People were injured. We have been, by and large, the most generous nation to have ever graced this poor, benighted earth – chary observations notwithstanding.

>>....but then again we were taught to believe that it is better.<<

It is.

[John317]

Am in essential agreement with your post, JASD.

[olger]

A succinct nod of the head to JASD, from Ohio.

oG

[John317]

... But, anyway, my point was just that the U.S. government isn't as altruistic as we have been taught to believe. It may not be worse than other countries - but then again we were taught to believe that it is better.

The U.S. government is a representative government, of the people. Are the people of the US totally altruistic? Of course not. The people of America voted for leaders and a government that is here to protect them, just as any government is supposed to protect and promote the welfare of its people.

Maybe you were taught false things about the US-- such as that it never seeks its own power, welfare and survival. But that would be foolish and suicidal, wouldn't it?

However, as I read history, I don't see any country on the face of the earth who has done more to help other peoples and nations. Compare the US with any great powers of history-- Egypt, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, Britain, the Netherlands, France, Spain, Germany, Japan, the USSR, China.

By the way, why don't we hear any "liberal" national (i.e., not local) political leaders speaking well about America-- the way they used to? Where today are the FDRs, the Trumans, the LBJs, and the John Kennedys? Why do all the liberals (perhaps with the exception of Mrs. Clinton) seem always to be putting America down? Can you think of any liberal leaders who don't do it? You'd almost think, by the way they talk, that today's liberals dislike America. Obama's wife and Jeremiah Wright are good examples of what I'm talking about. Have you ever noticed that you rarely hear people on the right of the political spectrum talking that way, even when liberal Democrats are in the White House or running congress? People on the right generally talk about how great the US is and how they love their country, despite its problems. On the other hand, those on the Left and especially on the Far Left talk of how awful the US is and how they will move out of the country if the election doesn't go the way they want it to.

Maybe this doesn't fit all "liberals" but if it doesn't, then why don't we hear more of them talking about the greatness and goodness and potential of America? Or am I maybe too deaf?

[Bravus]

Back to my old sig on this one: Loving a country means challenging it to be its best, not excusing it at its worst. Liberal leaders are seeing the harm America is doing in the world and speaking the truth about that. It's implicit that they want America to do better, and believe it can do better, but I wish they would be more explicit about that: be willing to paint a picture of the America they dream of, rather than just criticise the one that is. The reason they don't is because that America might (gasp) have some level of national health care... and a whole bunch of those other scary 'liberal' issues.

[John317]

I don't disagree with the essence of what you are saying here, Bravus. But there's a way of doing that so it leaves no doubt where your heart is, and then there is a way of doing it so that there is no doubt where your heart AIN'T. Like when people come right out and say they hate America or don't love it at all or that they want America defeated and defeated badly. That is what I am hearing.

It's a different tone. The liberals I mentioned-- FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ-- all wanted to make America better, but you had no doubt that they also wanted what is best for their country. I don't hear that so much from the liberals any more. I heard it from Joe Lieberman, but he is no longer accepted by the Democratic Party.

Provide a link to an example of a national "liberal" leader in America who talks about his love of his country, how America is a good country, and how he wants to see America fulfill its potential. I hope you can prove me wrong.

[carolaa]

Maybe you were taught false things about the US-- such as that it never seeks its own power, welfare and survival. But that would be foolish and suicidal, wouldn't it?

I don't see any country on the face of the earth who has done more to help other peoples and nations.

By the way, why don't we hear any "liberal" national (i.e., not local) political leaders speaking well about America-- the way they used to?

I think I was taught blind patriotism and am now disillusioned and very disappointed. I still love my country and am glad to be here, but I sure don't hold it on a pedestal. I'm not sure how "proud" I am any more. I'm proud of our Constitution, but I see our "guaranteed" freedoms vanishing. I guess I'm proud of our ideals, but I just don't see us living up to them much any more.

As far as helping other countries, I do think America is very generous and caring. But then there is the other side of us that can be selfish and bullyish. That's the side you don't learn much about in school. They kind of air-brush over that.

Actually, Obama's speeches remind me of JFK. I hear him presenting a vision of how America could be. I think he's inspiring. But what can you expect when the country is going against so much of what the Democrats stand for? I think you even hear fewer Republicans making those kinds of speeches these days.

[carolaa]

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Quote:: jasd

Would other nations, which have contributed to the demise of much of our industry, be as kind as to offer to help in our extremity!

>>We don't know what extremity is.<< Have no fear, we will, in my humble opinion, shortly know extremity – in spades.

I agree wholeheartedly.

(note: near 95% of our shoes and boots are manufactured in other countries. We, literally, no longer have either the machinery or the capability to manufacture our own)

I'm pretty sure Payless has some factories here in the U.S.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Maybe you were taught false things about the US-- such as that it never seeks its own power, welfare and survival. But that would be foolish and suicidal, wouldn't it?

I don't see any country on the face of the earth who has done more to help other peoples and nations.

By the way, why don't we hear any "liberal" national (i.e., not local) political leaders speaking well about America-- the way they used to?

I think I was taught blind patriotism and am now disillusioned and very disappointed. I still love my country and am glad to be here, but I sure don't hold it on a pedestal. I'm not sure how "proud" I am any more. I'm proud of our Constitution, but I see our "guaranteed" freedoms vanishing. I guess I'm proud of our ideals, but I just don't see us living up to them much any more.

As far as helping other countries, I do think America is very generous and caring. But then there is the other side of us that can be selfish and bullyish. That's the side you don't learn much about in school. They kind of air-brush over that.

Actually, Obama's speeches remind me of JFK. I hear him presenting a vision of how America could be. I think he's inspiring. But what can you expect when the country is going against so much of what the Democrats stand for? I think you even hear fewer Republicans making those kinds of speeches these days.

I agree with almost everything you said here.

Obama at first also reminded me of JFK. The only thing is I have gotten to know him better since that time. I remember JFK, and JFK Obama is not. Compare JFK's speech about Catholicism and Obama's about his faith and about Wright. Not in the same ball park.

Obama sounds inspiring until you start looking at what he has actually done. Obama talks great, I admit. But look at what he has done. For me he comes off as just another liberal politician, not really any different from McGovern, Clinton, Gore, et. al.

I voted for McGovern, Carter, Mondale, and Dukakkis. Not any more.

[carolaa]

Obama sounds inspiring until you start looking at what he has actually done. Obama talks great, I admit. But look at what he has done. For me he comes off as just another liberal politician, not really any different from McGovern, Clinton, Gore, et. al.

I voted for McGovern, Carter, Mondale, and Dukakkis. Not any more.

I've been disappointed lately at how much Obama is tailoring his message to fit the current crowd he needs to win over. Politics is tough business. I wonder if there's anyone who can really survive it any more.

[jasd]

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Quote:jasd

(note: near 95% of our shoes and boots are manufactured in other countries. We, literally, no longer have either the machinery or the capability to manufacture our own)

>>I'm pretty sure Payless has some factories here in the U.S.<<

Thank goodness for that 5%.

I focused on shoes because so many of our boys and girls in Iraq were asking their parents to send them Danner boots (manufactured here in Portland, OR), as those govt issues they were wearing weren’t holding up. When the need arises that we need sturdy, well-built shoes – we’ll have only a closet full of those cheaply made (though expensive) fall-aparts from foreign (sweat factories?).