LifeHiscost Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 What you're advocating constitutes Babylon. Everyone's "truth" is just as good as anyone else's. "You're OK, I'm OK, Everybody's OK." In fact, don't worry about sinning-- God will forgive all sinning. Go on sinning willfully until Christ comes. Just love, love, love. Great news? But is it really? Is that the gospel that we find presented in the Bible? Is that the Third Angels Message? Is this what we see in the books of Daniel and Revelation? And I don't even see it in other places in the Scripture. "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Matthew 7:15 KJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 Originally Posted By: John317 What you're advocating constitutes Babylon. Everyone's "truth" is just as good as anyone else's. "You're OK, I'm OK, Everybody's OK." In fact, don't worry about sinning-- God will forgive all sinning. Go on sinning willfully until Christ comes. Just love, love, love. Great news? But is it really? Is that the gospel that we find presented in the Bible? Is that the Third Angels Message? Is this what we see in the books of Daniel and Revelation? What do you expect from someone who is the Devil . Babylon ... The Devil ... it's all the same. Name Calling. No biggy here ... "Be of sober spirit, be on the alert Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." 1 Peter 5:8 NASB Seems wise to me to make sure that, as a sheep, you know you're with the best Shepherd. "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd." John 10:16 NASB Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators Gerr Posted July 16, 2008 Moderators Posted July 16, 2008 Quote: What I am saying is that we should not ignore differences and carry on like nothing ever happened. Friend, I don't know how long you have been an Adventist, but let me remind you the angst our church went through in the tumultuous 80's & 90's, with Ford and Walter Rea. Go to the ABC and you will find volumes written dealing with these questions and differences. Gerry Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted July 16, 2008 Moderators Posted July 16, 2008 I could be wrong, but the drift I get from your post is that truth doesn't matter. Gerry Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 16, 2008 Moderators Posted July 16, 2008 Quote: What I am saying is that we should not ignore differences and carry on like nothing ever happened. Friend, I don't know how long you have been an Adventist, but let me remind you the angst our church went through in the tumultuous 80's & 90's, with Ford and Walter Rea. Go to the ABC and you will find volumes written dealing with these questions and differences. Gerry True. There was no attempt to hide them. And as you know, we are still feeling the results of that angst of the 80s today. In rapid succession, there was Brinsmead, Ford, Ron Numbers, Walter Rea, and Ratzslaff. But I believe that God allows those things to happen for a reason. We don't like it and we don't always understand why, but we can be sure God has a good reason to let those developments occur within the church. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 There needs to be room for all in God's Church. The fine details of truth will be worked out when we See His Face. Apparently GOD doesn't feel that ALL 'details of truth' need to be fully known until he explains it when we get to heaven. I'll let HIM decide which things I am required to know and which things I'm not. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Moderators Gerr Posted July 16, 2008 Moderators Posted July 16, 2008 Originally Posted By: Redwood There needs to be room for all in God's Church. The fine details of truth will be worked out when we See His Face. Apparently GOD doesn't feel that ALL 'details of truth' need to be fully known until he explains it when we get to heaven. I'll let HIM decide which things I am required to know and which things I'm not. God gave us His Word. Then everything in it must be things He wants us to know. If it is not found in His Word, then I agree with you that it was something He did not want us to know. "But grow in the grace and KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." 2 Pe 3:18 "...make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with KNOWLEDGE..." 2 Pe 1:5 Gerry Quote
Woody Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 The Holy Spirit leads us unto all truth. But the Holy Spirit leads each of us differently. I'll let God decide what 'I' need. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Moderators Gerr Posted July 16, 2008 Moderators Posted July 16, 2008 The Holy Spirit leads us unto all truth. But the Holy Spirit leads each of us differently. I'll let God decide what 'I' need. And how does God decide or reveal to you what you should or should not know since He has already given His Word that is a revelation of His will? Gerry Quote
Woody Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 Well Gerry .... The way the Holy Spirit has lead me to understand the Bible .... is FAR different than say how YOU understand His Word. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
D. Allan Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 "All" If u new mi ewe wouldn't find it hard 2 b leave. Originally Posted By: dAb All teachings must be surrendered along with all the other selfishness and junk. Not sure what you mean here. Could you give an example of the teachings you refer to? It seems that you include "all teachings" of the church and the Bible, but I find it hard to believe that this is what you mean to say. "Teachings" become idols. They eventually stand in the way of loving God and loving mankind. Anyone who loves God and the humans he is around and in contact with, needs no teachings. Such a one is spiritually fulfulled. To love someone one must spent time with them. Even God. "Teachings" become a substitue for spending time with God. Every moment following 'teachings' is a moment without God. - just some echos from my hollow skull - /dAb Quote dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
Woody Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 Quote: just some echos from my hollow skull - And Some Good Ones dAb. Thank you .... Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Neil D Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 Right you are, Mr. Allen. Of course this type of theology is a bit out of the theological box for some who are happy with tradtional theology. Of course, thinking outside the box is abit of a stretch for some.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. Â George Bernard Shaw Â
LifeHiscost Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 I could be wrong, but the drift I get from your post is that truth doesn't matter. Gerry Truth is vital, for certainty in direction. However there is something that seems to be overlooked by many who would place demands on the beliefs of others. Jesus made it clear by His submission to execution at the hands of His created beings. The only thing I know that He places above the importance of our eternal salvation, is everyone's right of freedom to make their own decisions, whether those decisions are right or wrong. "Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!" Matthew 18:7 NKJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Woody Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 The 'Truth' is ... Jesus encouraged and participated in the eating of fish and beef which some would consider to be sins and in opposition to 'truth'. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
LifeHiscost Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Originally Posted By: Redwood There needs to be room for all in God's Church. The fine details of truth will be worked out when we See His Face. I'll let HIM decide which things I am required to know and which things I'm not. A misconception has risen in Christian circles, established in certain circles of belief ever since Cain slew Able, that Jesus requires all to "do" all. It seems to me it needs to be made plain that only those who volunteer to be His disciples are given requirements, and that with the promise of empowerment to accomplish what He requires. All those requirements are found in the Holy Bible. Those who choose not to surrender themselves to His will for their lives, are left to do the best they can with that which they had when they came from their mother's womb. "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Rev 22:17 KJV underlined mine LHC "Love...does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking" 1 Cor 13:5 AMP To me, the choice seems easy to make, but that was not always the case. It wasn't until the gift of faith was seen to be granted that the choice was not only easy to make, but was made clear it was the better choice. "Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward." Hebrews 10:35 KJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 "Teachings" become idols. They eventually stand in the way of loving God and loving mankind. Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Woody Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Originally Posted By: Redwood I'll let HIM decide which things I am required to know and which things I'm not. A misconception has risen in Christian circles' date=' established in certain circles of belief ever since Cain slew Able, that Jesus requires all to "do" all. It seems to me it needs to be made plain that only those who volunteer to be His disciples are given requirements, and that with the promise of empowerment to accomplish what He requires. All those requirements are found in the Holy Bible. Those who choose not to surrender themselves to His will for their lives, are left to do the best they can with that which they had when they came from their mother's womb. "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Rev 22:17 KJV underlined mine LHC "Love...does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking" 1 Cor 13:5 AMP To me, the choice seems easy to make, but that was not always the case. It wasn't until the gift of faith was seen to be granted that the choice was not only easy to make, but was made clear it was the better choice. "Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward." Hebrews 10:35 KJV Regards! [/quote'] Great Post .... God does not require us to do all. So when there is some that is lacking .... we don't need to feel that our salvation is lost. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Woody Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Originally Posted By: D. Allan "Teachings" become idols. They eventually stand in the way of loving God and loving mankind. How would that relate with this? Are you saying to be taught about Jesus would be to follow an idol? "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me." John 5:39 NKJV Originally Posted By: D. Allan Anyone who loves God and the humans he is around and in contact with, needs no teachings. "Teachings" become a substitue for spending time with God. Every moment following 'teachings' is a moment without God. How does that square with this counsel? "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me ....and ye shall find rest unto your souls." Matthew 11:29 KJV /dAb Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
D. Allan Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Quote: Of course this type of theology is a bit out of the theological box for some who are happy with tradtional theology. Of course, thinking outside the box is abit of a stretch for some.... It is hard. But there is so much more of God out there. Guilt makes it hard, as Cardw has before explained. Quote dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
D. Allan Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 The response to my 'wild' ideas has been much more positive than I had expected. Quote: How would that relate with this? Are you saying to be taught about Jesus would be to follow an idol? "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me." John 5:39 NKJV Jesus was not a "teaching" but a person. Jesus was not urging his hearers to search the scriptures. He was telling them that eternal life is not in the scriptures. That He knew all about it and He was right there. "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me ....and ye shall find rest unto your souls." Matthew 11:29 KJV Again, learning from Jesus himself, not from the scriptures, is what he asked. Being "right" having/believing the "correct" "teachings" is not what matters. The more of one's spiritual correctness one can surrender - the more room for God to fill - and not with teachings - but with himself. - twinkles from a dazzled mind - /dAb Quote dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
LifeHiscost Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 The 'Truth' is ... Jesus encouraged and participated in the eating of fish and beef which some would consider to be sins and in opposition to 'truth'. Jesus subscribed to the principle He set down from the beginning. "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." 1 Corinthians 10:31 KJV Knowing the diseases man subjects himself to in the form of flesh foods available in this day and age, I find it very easy to believe His choice would be different today. Sometimes it's the surrounding circumstances that determine the choice of repast. "But while the meat was still between their teeth, before it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was aroused against the people, and the LORD struck the people with a very great plague." Numbers 11:33 NKJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 God does not require us to do all. So when there is some that is lacking .... we don't need to feel that our salvation is lost. I find the above sums it up reasonably well, except I believe when there is no requirement "to do all", to not do it all is not lacking, for God will have others better suited to do what we do not. None of us are indispensable. "For if any person thinks himself to be somebody [too important to condescend to shoulder another's load] when he is nobody [of superiority except in his own estimation], he deceives and deludes and cheats himself." Galatians 6:3 AMP Brackets theirs LHC Regards! BTW for anyone who might smart from that text, I had no person in mind when posting it. Cheers! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators Gerr Posted July 17, 2008 Moderators Posted July 17, 2008 Well Gerry .... The way the Holy Spirit has lead me to understand the Bible .... is FAR different than say how YOU understand His Word. So then, the Holy Spirit teaches no consistent truth? One for you, a different one for me? "The mind of a person with understanding gets knowledge; the wise person listens to learn more." Prov 18:15 NCV Gerry Quote
olger Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Pardon me. It seems that you are close to saying that the less we know of God's word, the more faith we should therefore be able to have. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
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