Silence

[cricket]

[aside thought]

You know, when it comes right down to it--does it even matter who baptizes whom? I mean, seriously. God will accept anyone into His kingdom who loves Him. And those who really love Him are those who are trying to live their lives in such a way that is pleasing to God. If it means there is something they need to repent about, God will work it on their hearts to repent; if it means they should go and be baptized by water immersion, He'll work it on their hearts; if it means they should avoid at all costs being baptized by any one individual or group of individuals, He'll work it on their hearts to do so. God just doesn't leave us in the dark when it concerns His relationship with us.

That's what the Good Book tells us--right? Relationship is key.

[/aside thought]

[Woody]

REMEMBER it was the Church Members, those who vote, turned this down, not the GC institution itself

[Woody]

Quote:

Think about one thing. What it's the time of the month, and the woman is in the pool and all the people see her blood? What if they where in the ocean and there are sharks that smell the blood, and they come and attack the people being baptized?

Oh Good GRIEF.

This post speaks volumes.

[olger]

Yeah that argument is a stretch.

Rush, Wikipedia is correct that the Adventist church twice in formal session voted against the ordination of women. I was there for the first vote.

oG

[melvin mccarty]

A few years ago there was a book written by a person who had lived and worked in a certain African country. She told how there was a person who wanted to be baptised but lived in an isolated district and it was ten tears before a 'qualified" pastor finally visited that area. Does it seem like something wrong there? Where in the Bible does it describe who may or may not baptise people? mel

[anodos]

Exo. 1:19 And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women [are] not as the Egyptian women; for they [are] lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.

I thought that this verse was the midwives' excuse for refusing to kill the children, rather than an actual description of Hebrew liveliness.

[anodos]

In Acts 8:12-17, Samaritans were "baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus" by Philip but could not receive the Holy Spirit until the apostles of Jerusalem sent Peter and John to "lay hands on them".

[melvin mccarty]

I'm not really sure what that proves. Are you?

mel

[rush4hire]

Originally Posted By: rush4hire

Think about one thing. What it's the time of the month, and the woman is in the pool and all the people see her blood? What if they where in the ocean and there are sharks that smell the blood, and they come and attack the people being baptized?

Oh Good GRIEF.

This post speaks volumes.

It sure does.

Then what if the woman pastor is pregnant and goes into labor while she's baptizing?

Then after she has her baby, she'll be bleeding for one month. Then who's going to do the baptisms?

[color:#BF0000]1 Tim. 3:1 This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

Notice, it does not say:

If a man [or woman] desire the office of a bishop, he [or she] desireth a good work.

Then what's next? What if they come out with an operation where a man can have a baby. Then I suppose you will support that. Then they have an operation to make their breasts produce milk. So now you got gay men having babies and breast feeding them right there in your church. And they are members in good standing!

[Nan]

You have certainly considered all possible angles, Rush4hire....

In a strictly practical sense, how many SDA churches do you know that have baptisms every week, or even every month? There is such a thing as scheduling. And if you know so much about female physiology, maybe you

also know how women deal with such problems on an every day level.

[cricket]

Originally Posted By: rush4hire

Exo. 1:19 And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women [are] not as the Egyptian women; for they [are] lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.

I thought that this verse was the midwives' excuse for refusing to kill the children, rather than an actual description of Hebrew liveliness.

This, too, is what I believe this verse of scriptures indicates. It is not a reference to a much hardier breed of woman.

[cricket]

It sure does.

Then what if the woman pastor is pregnant and goes into labor while she's baptizing?

[Woody]

This thread has really deteriorated into the ridiculous.

[cricket]

Yes.

Yes it has.

Sorry. Back to love anyone??

[jasd]

QR frame:

Re: baptism in a contaminated tank - umm, kinda argues for sprinkling, doesn't it?

[olger]

Deft, Jasd.

[rush4hire]

Originally Posted By: rush4hire

So now you got gay men having babies and breast feeding them right there in your church. And they are members in good standing!

Right next to the smoker, the adulterer, the alcoholic, the glutton, the sabbath breaker, the idolator, the murderer, the warmongerer...yep. Right there in church where he can learn about God.

[olger]

I think that repentence is to precede baptism. Good point.

[cricket]

It is a false accusation and a smoke screen when you accuse people of being unloving for their sticking to Biblical principles.

If you feel as if I've accused you of being unloving, please accept my apology. It is true that I believe we should reach one another with love, and I don't think that refusing baptism is a loving thing to do. My beliefs have nothing to do with how I personally feel about any one individual, however.

[Woody]

I think that repentence is to precede baptism. Good point.

[olger]

Yessir..

"Parents whose children desire to be baptized have a work to do, both in self-examination and in giving faithful instruction to their children. Baptism is a most sacred and important ordinance, and there should be a thorough understanding as to its meaning. It means repentance for sin, and the entrance upon a new life in Christ Jesus. There should be no undue haste to receive the ordinance. Let both parents and children count the cost."

[olger]

And then..

"Princes and rabbis, soldiers, publicans, and peasants came to hear the prophet. For a time the solemn warning from God alarmed them. Many were brought to repentance, and received baptism."

[rush4hire]

@Redwood

You don't want simple and plain teachings to be simple and plain. You want things to be obscure. Why?

Heeding the invitation to come to Christ is not the same thing as Baptism.

Neither is heeding the invitation to go on a date with a suitor the same thing as marriage.

@cricket

If any minister ever baptizes a gay couple together and welcomes homosexuality into this church, let him be accursed.

The world has been pushing Christianity to accept their views that it's OK to be gay. The SDA church has been resisting that theory and will continue to do so. If you are trying to convince the SDA people that homosexuality is not a sin, but a lifestyle, you will fail.

[cricket]

The world has been pushing Christianity to accept their views that it's OK to be gay. The SDA church has been resisting that theory and will continue to do so. If you are trying to convince the SDA people that homosexuality is not a sin, but a lifestyle, you will fail.

There is a difference between the act of sin and the temptation to sin. In my opinion, being tempted is perfectly acceptable. Even Christ, Himself, was tempted. Temptation does not originate within the individual, but from outside the individual. Due to some combination of nature and nuture, each of us are more susceptible to some temptations than others. Just as I do not fault a person for wanting to smoke, drink or abuse drugs, I do not fault a person for wanting to engage in homosexual acts. Rather, I fault those influences who have not, through love, prevented those persons from acting on those temptations.

I maintain that Christianity must have something better to woo individuals from falling into temptation. Else, what is Christianity good for?

Unless you can honestly say that you have done everything possible to win the hearts of homosexuals to Christianity, then the sin of homosexuality rests on your shoulders and mine.

Don't see it my way? I don't expect you would; in fact, I expect I'll hear rebuttal from a lot of people on this board.

Love wins another.

[Woody]

Let me be the first to chime in and agree with you cricket. Well said.

Love WON another ....