Silence

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I second Redwood's chime and raise agreement with you also, Cricket.

[rush4hire]

There is a difference between the act of sin and the temptation to sin. In my opinion, being tempted is perfectly acceptable. Even Christ, Himself, was tempted. Temptation does not originate within the individual, but from outside the individual. Due to some combination of nature and nuture, each of us are more susceptible to some temptations than others. Just as I do not fault a person for wanting to smoke, drink or abuse drugs, I do not fault a person for wanting to engage in homosexual acts. Rather, I fault those influences who have not, through love, prevented those persons from acting on those temptations.

I maintain that Christianity must have something better to woo individuals from falling into temptation. Else, what is Christianity good for?

Unless you can honestly say that you have done everything possible to win the hearts of homosexuals to Christianity, then the sin of homosexuality rests on your shoulders and mine.

I have written whole articles on the topic of what God has given us to deal with temptation.

If I only had 2 minutes to come up with something real fast, (which I do):

There's prayer:

[color:#BF0000]Matt. 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil...

There' the Word:

[color:#BF0000]Psalms 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

And there's keeping busy doing God's will. There are way too many verses to cover this. Here's one at random:

[color:#BF0000]Isaiah 58:6 [is] not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

58:7 [is it] not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.

58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I [am]. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

58:10 And [if] thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness [be] as the noon day:

58:11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

These are the kind of things Christianity offers to fight against temptation. There's also "the whole armor of God" to consider.

[color:#BF0000]Eph. 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

God will provide everything you need to fight against the Devil.

[color:#BF0000]James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

What God will not provide is a perverse doctrine that promise that you can have your cake and eat it too. That's a lie of the Devil. All who preach that kind of thing are of the Devil, speaking his words, as his puppets.

[Woody]

Quote:

What God will not provide is a perverse doctrine that promise that you can have your cake and eat it too. That's a lie of the Devil. All who preach that kind of thing are of the Devil, speaking his words, as his puppets.

He promises us the cattle on a thousand hills. I would call that 'having our cake and eating it too'. We can go to the bank on that one. Certainly not a lie of the Devil.

[Neil D]

So, you are saying that the best things that Christainty has to offer is

Prayer,

fasting,

reading of the word....

And while this is to supplant the desires of the flesh????

I have done these things...I guarantee that they are not real motivators toward Christianity. No, the absolutely only thing that Christianity has is Jesus Himself. That, therefore, is the sole actractant toward Christianity. As Jesus Himself said-

And I, **IF** I be lifted up, will draw all men unto me.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: olger

I think that repentence is to precede baptism. Good point.

Ellen White ...

Quote:

"The Bible does not teach that the sinner must repent before he can heed the invitation of Christ." SC 26

This, of course, is talking about coming to Christ for forgiveness, not about baptism and membership in the church:

Just here is a point on which many may err, and hence they fail of receiving the help that Christ desires to give them. They think that they cannot come to Christ unless they first repent, and that repentance prepares for the forgiveness of their sins. It is true that repentance does precede the forgiveness of sins; for it is only the broken and contrite heart that will feel the need of a Saviour. But must the sinner wait till he has repented before he can come to Jesus? Is repentance to be made an obstacle between the sinner and the Saviour?

The Bible does not teach that the sinner must repent before he can heed the invitation of Christ, "Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28. It is the virtue that goes forth from Christ, that leads to genuine repentance. Peter made the matter clear in his statement to the Israelites when he said, "Him hath God exalted with His right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." Acts 5:31. We can no more repent without the Spirit of Christ to awaken the conscience than we can be pardoned without Christ. { 26.2}

[John317]

[Woody]

Quote:

This is my point, also, but what I am seeing is that many Christians and even Adventists believe that the practice of homosexuality is not even sin.

I keep hearing this mantra over and over. It seems like the conservative excuse to exclude gays from our care and concern. It seems that this one sin excludes them from the Christian family. I find this very curious.

Personally I've never met an Adventist who believed that homosexuality was not a sin. I am sure there might be some hugely small minority somewhere. There always is. But that is no reason to exclude these sinners as if we are so much more holier than they are.

[John317]

You've evidently totally misunderstood the points being made here. No one has said gays ought to be excluded from the Christian family. I'm gay myself and I am in church.

All I am concerned about is that the church not forget the vision and hope of God's helping gays resist and overcome.

[Woody]

I think you can rest assured John317. I don't hear anyone on this thread saying we can't help gays. Nor do I hear anyone here saying that homosexuality is not a sin. Yes, I know you have that famous website of some small minority. But you can always find kooks somewhere. I don't see it as a threat in the Seventh day Adventist Church. So, you can rest assured.

[there buster]

Quote:

1 Cor 6:9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were.

All of the above types of individuals were accepted in the church. That's not the issue.

The issue is, say I'm a thief-- I have stolen, I want to steal-- and I come into the church. I'm supposed to renounce theft, give it up. I might stumble and fall, need to confess and make restitution. But the one thing I cannot do and remain in communion with the body is to say, "Hey, I'm a thief. Stealing is my nature. It's O.K. if I steal a little, as long as I'm committed to it." That would be ludicrous. But I think that is the sort of thing John317 is concerned about.

[Woody]

You're right ... that would be ludicrous. But if John317 is concerned about it ... then so be it. I will let him be concerned .......

[rush4hire]

He promises us the cattle on a thousand hills. I would call that 'having our cake and eating it too'. We can go to the bank on that one. Certainly not a lie of the Devil.

[olger]

The Lord said:

"Let him who stole, steal no more."

[anodos]

That is so cool.

(Sorry for the thread interruption! You may go back on track now.)