Seal the Door

[olger]

Many people get married with the "back door" open in their minds. If it doesn't work out, there is an exit. Let me say this. If that back door is open (in your mind) you will not make it !! That is true for all of us. Things will always come along that can bring temporary strain into the relationship. Issues will arise. If that door is open, we will be tempted to move towards it instead of towards God.

It is a steel door. It needs to be welded shut. My wife & I made an agreement over 20-years ago to never use the word "divorce" in our relationship. It became a four-letter word to us. That is one way you can seal the door. Make that word anathema in your marriage. It is not an option.

When I began counseling years ago, it was hard for me to use the word "divorce" at first because it was kind of a 4-letter word to us. What other methods have you found that "seal the door" for you?

Gerry

[Woody]

Especially now with the hard times we live in ... I seal the door to anything regarding 'end time events'. I think they are dangerous ... and I for sure don't need them in my mind. If the Jesuits are going to get me then so be it. I won't live my life in fear. I will continue to trust in Jesus.

[fccool]

What if you are married to a Jesuit???? Would you know that? I mean, they are very secretive.

[Woody]

She hasn't been hidin behind any bushes. I've been watchin.

[carolaa]

I couldn't disagree more. That works for some couples, and I'm glad it has worked for you, but it's sure not the best way to go for other couples. Most counselors I know, including Christian ones, don't agree with that, either. It's not healthy or necessary for people to feel trapped in a bad marriage. People need to know that it's ok, and sometimes the best solution, to leave a bad relationship. People who think their spouse will never leave them no matter what have little incentive to work on the problems in their marriage.

[Woody]

I have to disagree that that is a Biblical approach. Just my humble opinion.

[Dr. Shane]

What if you are married to a Jesuit????

I am one that believers a believer has the right, but not obligation, to divorce an unbelieving spouse.

[Dr. Shane]

It's not healthy or necessary for people to feel trapped in a bad marriage. People need to know that it's ok, and sometimes the best solution, to leave a bad relationship.

I think even the most conservative Christian counselors would agree that there are bad relationships that require separation. However separation and divorce are two different things. The Church Manual states that in countries that do not have legal separation as an option, the church allows for divorce, but not remarriage, in such situations.

[Woody]

Good Advice Shane

[carolaa]

I'm not sure legal separation is even an option in every state. I think a trial separation is a great idea, to give some space and time before making such a major decision. But what is the point of a legal separation? Are we just playing with words?

[Woody]

It is not just playing with words ... just think about it a little.

[Dr. Shane]

what is the point of a legal separation?

First, this is church doctrine. So is the question, "what is the point of following the church's doctrine?"

Legal separation allows for the dividing of marital property and establishes child support and alimony. If some type of abuse was present in the marriage, legal separation may also involve a restraining order. It will also establish custody of the children and visitation rights.

Marriages are cyclical. Often times those that get legally separated seek counseling and end up returning to the marriage. Studies have shown that a majority of married couples reporting to unhappy or very unhappy after two years reported being happy or very happy with their marriage.

[rush4hire]

First, this is church doctrine. So is the question, "what is the point of following the church's doctrine?"

As long as I have Bible doctrine, I will have nothing to do with "Church doctrine".

[color:#BF0000]1 Cor. 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.

7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save [thy] husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save [thy] wife?

God will hold you accountable, if you put the authority of your church above the authority of Scripture.

[Woody]

Quote:

God will hold you accountable, if you put the authority of your church above the authority of Scripture.

Rush ... We are all accountable ... and we ALL fail the test.

Not sure why you like to flaunt the judgment of sinners. What about if we just admit to you that we are not as perfect as you and that we fail to met the demands of the law. Would that suffice. Would that help to stop the continued condemnations from you.

If you don't like the authority of our church why do you have an association with it? Many of us here ARE SDA and we recognize the church as having wisdom. As did Ellen White.

It appears that you consider yourself an authority unto yourself. Am I wrong? Or do you feel that anyone else might have some thoughts of wisdom?

[carolaa]

Well, yes, I am questioning the church's "doctrine." I'm not sure it holds up biblically, but that's my opinion.

As far as legal separation, I do not understand what the point is. You have to go through the same steps as with a divorce, yet at the end, you're still married. I can understand if you want to stay under the radar for financial reasons - to qualify for medical or pension benefits, for instance. But otherwise, I see it as just playing with words, and I have zero patience for that nonsense. It's yet one more way to try to control people's most personal business.

A couple can always get back together, whether they divorce or have a legal separation. I know a couple that got married 3 times (to each other).

In some countries, a man cannot be prosecuted for raping his wife, even if they are legally separated.

In several U.S. states, such as our own Texas, permanent legal separation is not an option.

[Woody]

Quote:

Well, yes, I am questioning the church's "doctrine." I'm not sure it holds up biblically, but that's my opinion.

And that is Cool. I happen to disagree with it ... but in the end ... it is okay to disagree and question. Questions are good. And in the end ... God wants our hearts. He is not going to hold it against us that we interpreted something in a different way. And this applies to any doctrine .... if our heart is right.

If it is important enough for us individually ... God will make it known.

So, you are certainly welcome to your opinion and interpretation.

[rush4hire]

Rush ... We are all accountable ... and we ALL fail the test.

[Taylor]

It appears that you consider yourself an authority unto yourself. Am I wrong? Or do you feel that anyone else might have some thoughts of wisdom?

Rush Responded: "It's not about thoughts and wisdom. It's the plain teaching of Scripture. If it's not plain to you, it's because you don't want it to be plain. Why would you not want it to be plain? To make needful the authority of men?

I don't claim any authority. It Is Written has the authority. I'm willing to go along with what has been set up from the beginning, instead of trying to make myself, or any man, an authority.

[Dr. Shane]

I see it as just playing with words, and I have zero patience for that nonsense. It's yet one more way to try to control people's most personal business...

In several U.S. states, such as our own Texas, permanent legal separation is not an option.

All states except Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, and Texas have provisions for legal separation. Legal separation is almost always selected by religious couples that have a religious objection to divorce. This is especially true for Catholics.

This is a very personal matter. But,,, religion is in itself a very personal matter. Many people try to live as the believe God would have them. I think it extremely insulting to call their efforts to find and follow God's will "nonsense". My sister got a legal separation from her abusive husband. The separation establish child support and alimony. They worked through their issues and eventually reconciled. I don't think she would summarize her experience as nonsense.

[olger]

Less arguing and...more sealing !!

By the way Shane. Did you know that the divorce rate among hispanics is LOWER than the divorce rate among christians (or professed ones presumably)? Hispanics take marriage more seriously than most. GOOD FOR THEM.

this is olger signing off

[carolaa]

Originally Posted By: carolaa

I see it as just playing with words, and I have zero patience for that nonsense. It's yet one more way to try to control people's most personal business...

In several U.S. states, such as our own Texas, permanent legal separation is not an option.

All states except Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, and Texas have provisions for legal separation. Legal separation is almost always selected by religious couples that have a religious objection to divorce. This is especially true for Catholics.

This is a very personal matter. But,,, religion is in itself a very personal matter. Many people try to live as the believe God would have them. I think it extremely insulting to call their efforts to find and follow God's will "nonsense". My sister got a legal separation from her abusive husband. The separation establish child support and alimony. They worked through their issues and eventually reconciled. I don't think she would summarize her experience as nonsense.

Wow, I don't know how you could twist my words any more than you have here. I would never call someone's efforts to follow God's will as nonsense. I'm saying the play on words is ridiculous - the way we go around the bush to avoid a certain label when the end result is basically the exact same thing, and even worse, the way we try to coerce others to make one choice over another.

I'm fine with whatever your sister chose to do - I don't even know her - but my point is that she could have gotten a divorce and then remarried her husband and accomplished the exact same thing. Either way is the same result.

I *am* critical when church members or leaders try to force a person to make one choice over another, when they are almost the exact same thing. That is hair-splitting nonsense. It is people pushing their way into others' personal, private matters just in order to split hairs.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

I *am* critical when church members or leaders try to force a person to make one choice over another, when they are almost the exact same thing.

It is not about "church members". It is about the Bible. God hates divorce. That is what the Bible says. How much clearer can God be about that? Separation is not the same as divorce. It is not nonsense. It is a solution for religious people that most states offer.

Furthermore the church cannot "force" anyone to do anything because members are free to leave. The Adventist church is not some kind of gang or mafia. If people don't like the church and what it believes, they are free to leave and join some other church or not go to church at all.

[carolaa]

Or they can stay, speak out, and try to change things.

[Dr. Shane]

I gave up fighting the world long ago. Life is too short and I value my peace of mind too much. I once a member of a church that I thought did most everything wrong. I finally got tired of beating my head on the wall and found a church that believes like I believe. Life is so much more peaceful when I am surrounded with like-minded believers.

[Gail]

Re: Seal the door...

I just saw in a book the recommendation to "Shut the Gate": the eye-gate, the ear-gate and the lip-gate. Same concept!