Rick Warren

[Dr. Shane]

What do you think of Pastor Rick Warren?

[Amelia]

Or. Don't know enough about him to pick one if these.

[Woody]

I think he probably has just as much good to say as Ellen White.

[fccool]

I got to meet both Warren and James McDonald several times. That was one of the perks for playing ball for one of the best evangelical colleges in US. I think if you talked to these people you'd change your mind about many misconceptions about them. I view these people as Doug Batchelors of emergent churches. Although McDonald does not consider himself "emergent"... I think he is very much so.

I honestly think that these people love God, but they were thrown into a position of "celebrity evangelism", which both of them very much embraced. If you ever been to the Harvest Chapel in Chicago... you'd know what I'm talking about. These people honestly try to impact the world for God. They understand fundamentals, yet I think they take a Machiavellian approach of "ends justify the means" along the way. As much as I am all pro talking to the people in language of their own cultural understanding... you can take it too far.

Yet, I've notice my church lately to do exactly the same thing some emergent churches do. The message nowerdays is "hang on there", "Jesus loves you"... aka "tiptoing around the controversial stuff". Some pastors afraid to offend people, and yet I think people are leaving because they are tired of the church being a "psychotherapy session" instead of community who is not afraid to talk about pre-marital sex, pornography, drinking, or masturbation. These subjects hardly come up nowadays, yet these are the subjects that young people struggle the most.

[Nan]

Should that poll even be there?

Whatever the rights and wrongs of Rick Warren, I do not feel that some of those choices are appropriate here.

[phkrause]

I don't think so redwood.

pk

[Woody]

You may be right pk. But they both say some strange things.

[Dr. Shane]

Should that poll even be there?

Whatever the rights and wrongs of Rick Warren, I do not feel that some of those choices are appropriate here.

Some of the choices say more about the member choosing them than they do about Pastor Rick Warren. I did the poll, in part, to poke fun at some of the extreme views we find amongst ourselves in the Adventist church. Personally, I think Pastor Warren, James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Chuck Swindwal and so many others are being faithful to the light they have been shown.

[Woody]

Amen

[Kountzer]

Sometimes when I am driving around I listen to Chuck Swindol, who btw is a native Houstonian, and here lately he had the temerity to preach on various parts of Daniel, most recently dan. 12. I say temerity because his interpretation of prophecy is totally whack. He was talking about all that 'after the church gets raptured, and 'being saved after the 7 years of tribulation jibber jabber. Malarky!

He's either blissfully ignorant or he is deliberately evading the truth on these issues.

DB

[John317]

I believe that if they studied deeply into the issue of the Rapture, they would find it has no real Bible support, but it takes a very brave man to stand up and pull the rug out from underneath a popular belief like the Rapture.

[Woody]

Sometimes when I am driving around I listen to Chuck Swindol, who btw is a native Houstonian, and here lately he had the temerity to preach on various parts of Daniel, most recently dan. 12. I say temerity because his interpretation of prophecy is totally whack. He was talking about all that 'after the church gets raptured, and 'being saved after the 7 years of tribulation jibber jabber. Malarky!

He's either blissfully ignorant or he is deliberately evading the truth on these issues.

DB

A good description of Houstonians. lol

[John317]

He's either blissfully ignorant or he is deliberately evading the truth on these issues.

DB

Both happen, unfortunately. God's word calls it "being willingly [intentionally] ignorant" of the truth.

[John317]

I think he probably has just as much good to say as Ellen White.

As it stands, I find this truly astonishing, to say the least.

Is it possible that I misunderstand you or that you intended to say something beyond your simple statement here? For instance, do you mean that Rick has a much good to say on a particular topic?

How can anyone who understands the work of Ellen White say that Rick Warren has as much good to say as the Lord's messenger whose writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church guidance, instruction, and correction?

Quote:

18. The Gift of Prophecy:

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

[John317]

I don't see any choice that expresses my view of Rick Warren. I think he is a sincere man who is trying to teach what he believes will help millions of people. I enjoy hearing him speak, but I do wish he taught more of the Bible rather than psychology and human philosophy.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

I think he probably has just as much good to say as Ellen White.

As it stands, I find this truly astonishing, to say the least.

Is it possible that I misunderstand you or that you intended to say something beyond your simple statement here? For instance, do you mean that Rick has a much good to say on a particular topic?

How can anyone who understands the work of Ellen White say that Rick Warren has as much good to say as the Lord's messenger whose writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church guidance, instruction, and correction?

Quote:

18. The Gift of Prophecy:

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

Let me make a guess .... I am willing to guess that Rick Warren has brought more people to Christ in his life time so far ... than Ellen White did in her entire life time. Just a guess but I think it is a safe one. I am not talking about doctrine here. I am talking about the Gospel and bringing people to Christ.

As I have always said . I agree with the above doctrine regarding Ellen White. But I don't claim to believe in it the same way as you. I happen to believe that there are many in our church and out of our church whose writings are a 'continuing and authoritative source of truth' on varied topics. The doctrine at this point ... just lists Ellen White ... which is fine. I don't think we really need to list them but that is fine.

So far ... "The messenger of God" has the most votes of any catagory and I think that is most accurate. After all ... we are ALL to be a messenger of God. BTW ... this was the title that Ellen White gave herself and I think it is the one that each of us should have.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

As it stands' date=' I find this truly astonishing, to say the least.

Is it possible that I misunderstand you or that you intended to say something beyond your simple statement here? For instance, do you mean that Rick has a much good to say on a particular topic?

How can anyone who understands the work of Ellen White say that Rick Warren has as much good to say as the Lord's messenger whose writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church guidance, instruction, and correction?

Quote:

18. The Gift of Prophecy:

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

[/quote']

Let me make a guess .... I am willing to guess that Rick Warren has brought more people to Christ in his life time so far ... than Ellen White did in her entire life time.

Your original statement was that you thought Rick Warren has as much good to say as Ellen White.

[Dr. Shane]

So far ... "The messenger of God" has the most votes of any catagory and I think that is most accurate. After all ... we are ALL to be a messenger of God.

Well, I think some people are messengers of Satan but that is a topic for another thread.

[Kountzer]

On tonight's broadcast Swindol had the gall to mock the millerite movement.

DB

[Woody]

On tonight's broadcast Swindol had the gall to mock the millerite movement.

DB

Well ... after all ... they didn't keep the Sabbath. Was that his point?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

As it stands' date=' I find this truly astonishing, to say the least.

Is it possible that I misunderstand you or that you intended to say something beyond your simple statement here? For instance, do you mean that Rick has a much good to say on a particular topic?

How can anyone who understands the work of Ellen White say that Rick Warren has as much good to say as the Lord's messenger whose writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church guidance, instruction, and correction?

Quote:

18. The Gift of Prophecy:

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

[/quote']

Let me make a guess .... I am willing to guess that Rick Warren has brought more people to Christ in his life time so far ... than Ellen White did in her entire life time. Just a guess but I think it is a safe one. I am not talking about doctrine here. I am talking about the Gospel and bringing people to Christ.

You could say the same thing about any of the popular evangelists, such as Billy Sunday, Billy Graham, Bishop Sheen, Kathryn Kuhlman, Oral Roberts, John Hagee, Paul Crouch, Binny Hinn, Ken Copeland, and many more. All of these you could say introduced many more to Christ than Ellen White did in her day.

But are the popular preachers of today preparing people to receive the seal of God? Are they getting people ready for the Second Coming? Are they proclaiming the Three Angels' Messages?

I believe that God has used those men to lead millions to put their faith in Jesus Christ, but the Adventist church-- and Ellen White-- was raised up by God for a special purpose, and that is to prepare the world for the Second Coming of Christ.

Read Chapter 27, "Modern Revivals," GC 461-478.

[Woody]

Step by Step. This is how the Holy Spirit leads. Step by Step.

After taking a class at the Seninary ... I learned that our church is not very good at all with getting NEW converts. Most of our converts are from other churches.

This is what I mean. Step by Step. First the other churches have to bring them to the Lord. Then the Adventist church can do the more advanced teachings if they are interested.

If I recall from the class correctly ... less than one percent come from the un-churched.

[John317]

Step by Step. This is how the Holy Spirit leads. Step by Step.

After taking a class at the Seninary ... I learned that our church is not very good at all with getting NEW converts. Most of our converts are from other churches.

This is what I mean. Step by Step. First the other churches have to bring them to the Lord. Then the Adventist church can do the more advanced teachings if they are interested.

If I recall from the class correctly ... less than one percent come from the un-churched.

I agree.

But while many of the popular evangelists are used of God to introduce people to Christ, they are also teaching them false doctrines that can make it hard for them to accept the truth as it is in Jesus, thus setting them up to receive the mark of the beast. For instance, all of them teach the keeping of the counterfeit Sabbath. They teach that God's law has been done away with so believers don't need to pay attention to the Sabbath. They also teach that the soul of the wicked is immortal and so they prepare people to receive the lies of Satan. In many other ways, these church leaders are misleading the people.

I don't think there's anything wrong with getting converts from other churches but I agree that we should work at doing a better job of making new converts.

[Woody]

It should bother us

What this means is that we have effectively turned over the "saving" of souls over to people like Rick Warren. He is doing the saving and we are doing the 'further educating'. Yes, the Holy Spirit is using both. But it seems to me that we ought to be in the forefront like the Rick Warrens.

If he can do it ... why can't we?

[parsongarlic]

There is a free book which can be read on line entitled: “Reinventing Jesus Christ” by Warren Smith published 2001. The additional foot notes Mr. Smith has added update and document the progression of the movement from 2001 to 2006.

“Hidden Heresy“ by Tom Mostert(Former Pacific Union President) – Pacific Press Publishing gives an additional perspective.

"Faith Undone" is a third excellent book on the above mentioned topic.

These books pretty well trace the developement of this seeker sensitive movement.

Each one of us must make hard decisions.