Moderators John317 Posted November 20, 2008 Moderators Posted November 20, 2008 There is a free book which can be read on line entitled: “Reinventing Jesus Christ” by Warren Smith published 2001. The additional foot notes Mr. Smith has added update and document the progression of the movement from 2001 to 2006. “Hidden Heresy“ by Tom Mostert(Former Pacific Union President) – Pacific Press Publishing gives an additional perspective. "Faith Undone" is a third excellent book on the above mentioned topic. These books pretty well trace the developement of this seeker sensitive movement. Each one of us must make hard decisions. Here's a link to Smith's book: http://www.reinventingjesuschrist.com/reinventing.pdf It looks like an interesting, worth-while book. Could you summarize for us the basic danger that you and others see in Rick Warren's theology or views? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Administrators Gail Posted November 20, 2008 Administrators Posted November 20, 2008 parsongarlic... I like your name! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Administrators Gail Posted November 20, 2008 Administrators Posted November 20, 2008 I'm also interested in this type of information. Thanks for the recommendations! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Moderators John317 Posted November 20, 2008 Moderators Posted November 20, 2008 I think he probably has just as much good to say as Ellen White. Have you read any of Rick Warren's books? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
parsongarlic Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 Thanks Gail, It's an old handle from long ago. Post modernism, pantheism, new age, and the 21st century emerging church seem to be on a converging course and might be taking the church away from the sola scriptura authority of salvation by faith and seeking a new paradigm of works. Rick Warren's Universal P.E.A.C.E plan is allegedly converging with the U.N. Google these and you will discover some very interesting religous trends. These are broad strokes. If you believe there is salvation in others besides the historical Jesus Christ, than you are ready for the metaphorical Jesus Christ of the 21st Century. You will begin to see the meaning of scriptual vocabulary changed before your eyes. Quote
Administrators Gail Posted November 21, 2008 Administrators Posted November 21, 2008 Interesting! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Moderators John317 Posted August 29, 2011 Moderators Posted August 29, 2011 Post modernism, pantheism, new age, and the 21st century emerging church seem to be on a converging course and might be taking the church away from the sola scriptura authority of salvation by faith and seeking a new paradigm of works. Very interesting indeed. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
ClubV12 Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 "Bringing people to God", well thats a big sentence easily misunderstood. At some point the entire world will turn to what they think is God. And as a result will sincerely want to put to death anyone keeping the Sabbath. So many people profess to be christians these days the term itself doesn't mean much anymore. With almost everyone claiming to be a "christian" and then sub-identifying themselves as Baptist, Methodist or "who ever" that "1%" is no shock as it applies to America. Quote
Pockey Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Rick Warren's Universal P.E.A.C.E plan is allegedly converging with the U.N. Google these and you will discover some very interesting religous trends. These are broad strokes. Wow. I heard him a few years ago and hadn't realized he had blown up so much since then. Quote
Pockey Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 When I read Purpose Driven Life, I didn't really feel like I had learned anything substantial. It kind've left me more confused and empty. For example, on page 58, he says: Whisper the prayer that will change your eternity: "Jesus, I believe in you, and I receive you". Go ahead. If you sincerely meant that prayer, congratulations! Welcome to the family of God! But then he never talks about repentance, confession, consecration, sanctification etc. "Steps To Christ" is so much deeper and more real to me. On a side note, remember, Ellen White warns "The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience." GC 588 Quote
Moderators John317 Posted August 31, 2011 Moderators Posted August 31, 2011 I think he probably has just as much good to say as Ellen White. You're not serious, are you? I hope you aren't anyway. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted August 31, 2011 Moderators Posted August 31, 2011 I have never read him, but on the basis of the quote from his book, it seems that he has watered down the Bible's teachings to an astonishing degree. If he never talks about repentance, confession, consecration, sanctification, he's teaching a false gospel. But I'm not surprised it's a popular message because it appeals to our sinful nature. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted August 31, 2011 Moderators Posted August 31, 2011 On a side note, remember, Ellen White warns "The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience." GC 588 There's no question in my mind that we're seeing this in the process of happening at the present time. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Pockey Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 There's no question in my mind that we're seeing this in the process of happening at the present time. I agree. We must watch and pray for each other, that we may vigil. God have mercy on us. Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 31, 2011 Members Posted August 31, 2011 Whenever I hear about SDA's embracing the concepts of Rick Warren, I cringe... but, then, perhaps I am just closed-minded... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Moderators lazarus Posted August 31, 2011 Moderators Posted August 31, 2011 Whenever I hear about SDA's embracing the concepts of Rick Warren, I cringe... but, then, perhaps I am just closed-minded... Really? Warmer through fellowship Deeper through discipleship Stronger through worship Broader through ministry And larger through evangelism “If you will concentrate on building people, God will build the church.” I don't agree with everything that Warren presents but the CONCEPTS are spot on. I don't cringe, I get excited! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 31, 2011 Members Posted August 31, 2011 Originally Posted By: rudywoofs Whenever I hear about SDA's embracing the concepts of Rick Warren, I cringe... but, then, perhaps I am just closed-minded... Really? Warmer through fellowship Deeper through discipleship Stronger through worship Broader through ministry And larger through evangelism “If you will concentrate on building people, God will build the church.” I don't agree with everything that Warren presents but the CONCEPTS are spot on. I don't cringe, I get excited! I didn't get those nice fuzzy feelings when I read Warren's books. Granted, he is very charismatic. He makes people "feel good"... but I had warning signals shooting through me about what I was reading.. I've learned to pay attention to those.. since when did "larger" mean "better"? nevermind...as I said previously....I am probably one of those closed-minded people who aggravate things/people here on the forum... It's my life's work... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
CoAspen Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Quote: aggravate things/people here on the forum... It's my life's work... Quote
Moderators John317 Posted August 31, 2011 Moderators Posted August 31, 2011 All those concepts you mention are found in the Bible and in the writings of Ellen White. But it looks like the concepts in Rich Warren's books are mixed together with some significant errors. So the question is, why do we need to read it in Rick Warren in order to-- or before we-- get excited about those concepts? Or before we put them into practice? Is it possible that God is using Rick Warren in order to communicate to us what He already revealed to us several times before? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Administrators Gail Posted August 31, 2011 Administrators Posted August 31, 2011 Is it possible that God is using Rick Warren in order to communicate to us what He already revealed to us several times before? Hmmm... Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Moderators lazarus Posted August 31, 2011 Moderators Posted August 31, 2011 All those concepts you mention are found in the Bible and in the writings of Ellen White. But it looks like the concepts in Rich Warren's books are mixed together with some significant errors. If you mean significant errors such as Sunday worship, state of the dead, absence of the full understanding of Christ's work in the heavenly sanctuary then I would agree. Those errors have not stopped us (or even Ellen White) from using the works of others in the past. Quote: So the question is, why do we need to read it in Rick Warren in order to-- or before we-- get excited about those concepts? Or before we put them into practice? So I used the word excited..... and now you are asking why we needed Rick Warren to get excited and use the concepts that are in EGW and the Bible. Those are some major assumptions brother. Why make the assumption that people were not using them and and exited about them already? What a strange conclusion to draw. Quote: Is it possible that God is using Rick Warren in order to communicate to us what He already revealed to us several times before? Of course. That's how God operates. Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Moderators John317 Posted August 31, 2011 Moderators Posted August 31, 2011 Good to "see" & hear from you, Lazarus. :-) Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
WayneV Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 It should bother us What this means is that we have effectively turned over the "saving" of souls over to people like Rick Warren. He is doing the saving and we are doing the 'further educating'. Yes, the Holy Spirit is using both. But it seems to me that we ought to be in the forefront like the Rick Warrens. If he can do it ... why can't we? You make a good point, Woody. I once heard the pastor of another denomination say that his only problem with Seventh-day Adventists was the lack of evangelism. This pastor referred to SDA's as "sheep theives". Agape` Quote WayneV Just remember these words of warning, for they will come to pass all too soon: If you are ever flying through the desert and your canoe breaks down, remember that it takes three pancakes to lift the doghouse, because there ain't nary a bone in ice cream!
ClubV12 Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 Rudywoofs says, "I didn't get those nice fuzzy feelings when I read Warren's books." OK, so we don't rely on "feelings" but we shouldn't discount them either. It just might be that still small voice. If your reading, seeing or hearing a really good presentation and it's apparently fabulous, how do you "feel" about it later? Sometimes, I get the sense there was something wrong, maybe I can't put my finger on it, but it makes me "feel" uneasy. Maybe it's thats the subtle error part of the mostly truth message thats getting through to you. Mixed truth and some error, the very best way to deceive! Quote
Moderators lazarus Posted September 1, 2011 Moderators Posted September 1, 2011 OK, so we don't rely on "feelings" but we shouldn't discount them either. It just might be that still small voice. If your reading, seeing or hearing a really good presentation and it's apparently fabulous, how do you "feel" about it later? Sometimes, I get the sense there was something wrong, maybe I can't put my finger on it, but it makes me "feel" uneasy. I'm sure Jesus left many a person with uneasy feelings, particularly the religious leaders. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
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