Rick Warren

[ClubV12]

Ha Ha,,, those are different kind of feelings Lazarus, conviction might be one word for it, but your point is well taken.

Versus the "sense" that something is wrong in an evil kind of way, a nervous, suspicious, doesn't feel right kind of way.

...of course we cannot trust our feelings because they are complext, but they can lead us to question and apply principles or confirm principles.

[Pockey]

My co-worker is a faithful attender of Rick Warren's church. Today I asked him (my co-worker) what he (my co-worker) thought of the Sabbath and which day it was. To my surprise he hesitated but said he thinks it's Saturday. Then I asked him if Rick Warren thinks it's Saturday and he said "well that's legalism, and we shouldn't be like the Pharisees". I said "but God commands it" (as gently as I could).

I then asked what Rick Warren thinks of the Sabbath. He said Monday is Warren's sabbath because he works on Saturday and Sunday preaching the gospel. So I googled Rick Warren and Sabbath and it was very similar to what my friend was saying. There are written sermons of Warren saying Monday is his Sabbath. Among the first search results were topics of legalism as well.

I think I understand his point of view. Their view is that as long as you are setting aside one day a week to worship God, whether that day is Mon, Tue, Wed is arbitrary. And to assign a specific day of the week (Saturday) is legalism. It's scary but I can see how this train of thought would be very logical. I am afraid this will be one of the rationales at the end times. But ironically the same argument can be made once the National Sunday Law is in effect because they will be forcing a Sunday rest day. Hopefully at that time they will realize what day the true Sabbath is.

[John317]

There are Christians who believe that it was the right of Church in the liberty of the gospel to choose any day it wanted. The fact that it chose a different day other than the Sabbath shows that the Church was rejecting legalism. It had to choose a different day in order to assert its freedom in Christ.

[LifeHiscost]

I think he probably has just as much good to say as Ellen White.

Haven't read the book but understand from various comments that he proposes that we each have within us what it takes to succeed.

That's contrary to Scripture and The Spirit of Prophecy. And from personal experience as well.

"“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing." John 15:5 NKJV

"“The human heart is the most deceitful of all things,and desperately wicked.Who really knows how bad it is?"Jeremiah 17:9 NLT

"To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."Col 1:27 NKJV

God blesses!

[olger]

A....Men!

[LifeHiscost]

Their view is that as long as you are setting aside one day a week to worship God, whether that day is Mon, Tue, Wed is arbitrary. And to assign a specific day of the week (Saturday) is legalism. It's scary but I can see how this train of thought would be very logical. I am afraid this will be one of the rationales at the end times. But ironically the same argument can be made once the National Sunday Law is in effect because they will be forcing a Sunday rest day. Hopefully at that time they will realize what day the true Sabbath is.

The final argument will be whether tradition of the church is of greater validity for human behavior, than the Word of God as found in the Holy Bible. Sunday is admittedly, by the church who initially promoted it, a traditional church day of worship. When it at last is enforced by governmental law as the day of worship, to the exclusion of the seventh day Sabbath, it will have attained to the mark of the beast, on threat of death to those who refuse to honor it as such.

"For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.”

I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities." Revelation 18:3-5 NASB

God blesses!

[nuff sed]

Am I a simpleton to think that the controversy is not over which day to keep anymore than what fruit Eve was not to eat? IMO the test is still the same. Will we obey God or not? For Eve the test was the Tree of Knowledge and Evil. For us it is The Sabbath. "Choose you this day........................." Nuff Sed

[phkrause]

Am I a simpleton to think that the controversy is not over which day to keep anymore than what fruit Eve was not to eat? IMO the test is still the same. Will we obey God or not? For Eve the test was the Tree of Knowledge and Evil. For us it is The Sabbath. "Choose you this day........................." Nuff Sed

Interesting point 'nuff sed, a very good point as a matter of fact.

[Gail]

I would not be surprised if the truth of the doctrine does begin to be preached sometime before Jesus comes. There have been whole churches see the light in it and come round to obedience to it

We live in interesting times

[BobRyan]

I got to meet both Warren and James McDonald several times. ... I view these people as Doug Batchelors of emergent churches.

I think that is probably true about Warren and the EC movement.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

I think I understand his point of view. Their view is that as long as you are setting aside one day a week to worship God, whether that day is Mon, Tue, Wed is arbitrary. And to assign a specific day of the week (Saturday) is legalism.

You are probably right about the way they think about it.

They may have gone to the goofy edge of Christianity by claiming that God's statement in Ex 16 "tomorrow is the Sabbath" is a kind of bad "legalism". Probably would not have gone for that "no manna on Saturday" thing either - because that is wayyy too legalistic.

So if they are not following the God of the Bible - which God are they following?

in Christ,

Bob

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: 'nuff sed

Am I a simpleton to think that the controversy is not over which day to keep anymore than what fruit Eve was not to eat? IMO the test is still the same. Will we obey God or not? For Eve the test was the Tree of Knowledge and Evil. For us it is The Sabbath. "Choose you this day........................." Nuff Sed

Interesting point 'nuff sed, a very good point as a matter of fact.

OTOH, it needs to be said clearly, for there are many who do not see that as Truth, and a vast majority are of the body of Christ.

Either they will be lost to eternity, or they will willingly and gladly accept the way out of honoring the traditional day of rest that is held by the majority of Christendom.

"Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing.”"Luke 23:34 NLT

God blesses!

[BobRyan]

Rev 18 "Come out of her MY PEOPLE".

God has not given up on those who are still walking in some level of darkness.

He is not willing for any to perish but for ALL to come to repentance.

in Christ,

Bob

[Pockey]

Originally Posted By: Sid

I think I understand his point of view. Their view is that as long as you are setting aside one day a week to worship God, whether that day is Mon, Tue, Wed is arbitrary. And to assign a specific day of the week (Saturday) is legalism.

You are probably right about the way they think about it.

They may have gone to the goofy edge of Christianity by claiming that God's statement in Ex 16 "tomorrow is the Sabbath" is a kind of bad "legalism". Probably would not have gone for that "no manna on Saturday" thing either - because that is wayyy too legalistic.

So if they are not following the God of the Bible - which God are they following?

in Christ,

Bob

I think I understand partly why God made a set day, it's so we can all have unity at once, instead of everybody picking and choosing which day of the week they designate as their sabbath.

[phkrause]

I think I understand partly why God made a set day, it's so we can all have unity at once, instead of everybody picking and choosing which day of the week they designate as their sabbath.

Not so sure that was his original intention. I believe at first the Sabbath was a memorial to his creation, and he was going to be with us on each Sabbath, in person no less. Now it is for a day of rest and also to commemorate creation.

[Pockey]

Originally Posted By: Sid

I think I understand partly why God made a set day, it's so we can all have unity at once, instead of everybody picking and choosing which day of the week they designate as their sabbath.

Not so sure that was his original intention. I believe at first the Sabbath was a memorial to his creation, and he was going to be with us on each Sabbath, in person no less. Now it is for a day of rest and also to commemorate creation.

I totally agree. My co-worker said Warren's Sabbath is Monday since he 'works' on Sat and Sun. I'm trying to fully understand so I can explain why we can't just pick one day out of the week to be our Sabbath. I know that if we talk about it again, he will ask "why can't we memorialize creation once a week on Tuesday?" or "why can't we rest with Him on Wednesday"? "Why does it have to be Saturday"? If I say "It is written in stone and commanded by God", he will say "that is legalism." I'm not sure what else I can say other than it was commanded by God, which should be enough.

[Gail]

Who are we to say what God means, anyway? Let every man be persuaded in his own mind... the Holy Spirit works powerfully and I believe will MORE powerfully just before probation closes.

Your loyalty to God will also testify. Don't worry about what the other one does with your witness. Your words just might plant a seed.

[John317]

The Bible reason is that God only rested on one day of the week, and that's the seventh day of the week. It is the only day that He blessed and sanctified and made holy.

It is holy because God is in the time in a way that He's not in any other time. It's God's presence that makes it holy. Some people believe we can make a day holy, but we can't. Only God can make something or someone holy.

To try and make another day the time for us to meet with God would be a bit like a husband telling his wife that he's going to celebrate a day different from their actual anniversary. He may celebrate it, but the celebration won't be full like it would be if he celebrated it on the right day with his wife.

One Bible teacher put it this way:

Suppose we have 6 glasses filled with ordinary water. The seventh glass is filled delicious grape juice that God has blessed. To reject the seventh day Sabbath and try to substitute another day would be like rejecting the seventh glass filled with grape juice and drinking the water, hoping that it will be like the grape juice. It will never happen. The water will always be only water. To get the grape juice that God has blessed, you have take up the seventh glass and drink it. You can't possibly get it by drinking the water in any of those other glasses. That water may taste good but it isn't the grape juice.

[Gail]

The Bible reason is that God only rested on one day of the week, and that's the seventh day of the week. It is the only day that He blessed and sanctified and made holy.

It is holy because God is in the time in a way that He's not in any other time. It's God's presence that makes it holy. Some people believe we can make a day holy, but we can't. Only God can make something or someone holy.

To try and make another day the time for us to meet with God would be a bit like a husband telling his wife that he's going to celebrate a day different from their actual anniversary. He may celebrate it, but the celebration won't be full like it would be if he celebrated it on the right day with his wife.

Exactly. Hopefully others will begin to see it as a way to honour and glorify God.

[Pockey]

Very clear explanation and analogies John317. Thank you brother. You really help me understand it for myself before I can explain it to someone else.

Gail, I believe you're right that it is planting a seed. And you bring up a great point about witness. I can say all the truths there are but if my witness at work isn't of Him, it is meaningless.

[phkrause]

Very clear explanation and analogies John317. Thank you brother. You really help me understand it for myself before I can explain it to someone else.

Gail, I believe you're right that it is planting a seed. And you bring up a great point about witness. I can say all the truths there are but if my witness at work isn't of Him, it is meaningless.

76

[John317]

:-)

[LifeHiscost]

Rev 18 "Come out of her MY PEOPLE".

God has not given up on those who are still walking in some level of darkness.

He is not willing for any to perish but for ALL to come to repentance.

in Christ,

Bob

OTOH, will all come to repentance?

"Lord, you are searching for honesty.You struck your people,but they paid no attention.You crushed them,but they refused to be corrected.They are determined, with faces set like stone;they have refused to repent."Jeremiah 5:3 NLT

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Gail, I believe you're right that it is planting a seed. And you bring up a great point about witness. I can say all the truths there are but if my witness at work isn't of Him, it is meaningless.

"If we love our Christian brothers and sisters, it proves that we have passed from death to life. But a person who has no love is still dead."1 John 3:14 NLT

"In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother."

1 John 3:10 NKJV

God blesses!

[BobRyan]

God said "Tomorrow is the Sabbath" in Ex 16... too late for each one to "make up his own choice for a Sabbath day".

God said that double portions of manna would fall on the 6th day and none on the 7th - too late for each person to imagine that "you can make up any day to be Sabbath as it pleases you".

There is no text in all of scripture that suggests that God leaves it up to man to choose a day and sanctify it and make it holy of his own power and authority -- as if man could ever "sit in the seat of God".

in Christ,

Bob