Woody Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I've been reading things on the internet ... for the past two years. Mostly on this forum. And I have come to a few conclusions: For each and every belief ... there is an equal and opposite belief. And by equal I mean : Both sides can quote an equal amount of Bible quotes Both can quote an equal amount of EGW if SDA Both are equally sincere and searching for God Yeah yeah ... I know ... those who have the opposite view as you have ... THEY are quoting out of 'context' right? Yada yada yada ... Yack Yack yack. Okay ... I know there is an absolute truth out there some where. But we will only have the total truth when we get to heaven. Sure ... we will have tidbits here and there. We will gloat that we have the Sabbath. But are we really any better than those who don't understand or even accept the Sabbath? I think that a little tolerance for people and their beliefs of where they are at in their sincere Christian walk ... would go a long ways. And yes ... I even mean it towards those mean legalists. Yes. Some need rules in their early walk with God. And some never get over it until they see Jesus. But they can still be saved. God knows the heart more than the brain. Okay ... just a few ramblings brought to you by: Redwood (And please forgive me if the above color is not Red. Being color blind I gave it my best guess. You see ... I'm not perfect yet either.) Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members phkrause Posted January 3, 2009 Members Posted January 3, 2009 Redwood I do like your post. But I do believe that if we talk only within our own SDA church, I believe that there are a few things that there are not 2 sides to look at (just my belief), 1-the Sabbath; 2-who the Messiah is!; 3-the 10 Commandments and how they relate to God and to our neighbors or fellow man, there are probably a few more. But when it comes to other christian churches or other religions than I can agree that there is going to be some different views. And we should diffinetly be tolerant of others and what they believe. I think the best way to witness is to do as we preach. Like Jesus said to love one another. Be that good Samaritan like in the parable. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Neil D Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 (And please forgive me if the above color is not Red. Being color blind I gave it my best guess. You see ... I'm not perfect yet either.) what?!?!? You're not perfect???? I think not so....I choose only perfect friends, and therefore, you are perfect. The reason why I choose perfect friends is because only perfect friends can stomach my imperfections...Therefore, Redwood, you are a perfect friend.... Now, you are not the ONLY perfect friend that I have, but nevertheless, you are a perfect friend... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Moderators Bravus Posted January 3, 2009 Moderators Posted January 3, 2009 Amen to your opening post, Woodie. Quote Truth is important
Woody Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 Thanks All ... I appreciate all your comments. But I am curious to know if I got the color red correct or if I chose another color in error. Can someone tell me 'the truth'? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators Bravus Posted January 4, 2009 Moderators Posted January 4, 2009 Perfectly red. For future reference, the html colour codes consistent of 6 hexadecimal digits (0-f), and the first two correspond to red, the second two to green and the third two to blue. So for the purest possible red you want the colour named '#ff0000'. Hope that's clear as mud. Or you can just use the settings on the site, but those require you to pick the colour visually, so I thought maybe the codes would be more useful. So, replacing curly brackets with triangular ones, and ensuring that you switch to 'using UBBCode and HTML' in the pulldown, you should be able to use: {font color="#ff0000"}Red text goes here{/font} Testing Quote Truth is important
Woody Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 Sometimes Bravus ... you are just plain over my head. tic but thanks. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
olger Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Truth is objective. "Subjective truth" isn't truth after all. regards, `og Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Neil D Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Well that kills it....I believe in near falsehoods.....as opposed to near truths Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
True-believer Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I agree Redwood, you need to be careful of those legalists... I was caught up in one of them for a while before I met the SDA's mainstream. But I was involved with The SDA Reformed Church which denies the Trinity/Godhead. They are very legalised, but they are partly the reason why I chose to be a Seventh-day Adventist mainstream Christian--one who isn't so legalised like the Reformed Movement. Do you know who I am talking about????? www.sdarm.org please check them out on the internet, they put SDA's down and say we have lost the truth and only Reformed SDA's are SAVED!!! That is a very big statement.......... Go for it, check it out......... Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Taylor Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I agree Redwood, you need to be careful of those legalists...I was caught up in one of them for a while before I met the SDA's mainstream. But I was involved with The SDA Reformed Church which denies the Trinity/Godhead. They are very legalised, but they are partly the reason why I chose to be a Seventh-day Adventist mainstream Christian--one who isn't so legalised like the Reformed Movement. Do you know who I am talking about????? www.sdarm.org please check them out on the internet, they put SDA's down and say we have lost the truth and only Reformed SDA's are SAVED!!! That is a very big statement.......... Go for it, check it out......... Yes Luke I do know exactly what you are talking about and I am glad you have discovered the truth in the mainstream SDA church. The Reformed church believes many things correctly but they have some major errors in their teachings, not the least of which is their attitude towards anyone who isn't "in" with them. I applaud you for seeking after God. The Bible promises that God will lead you into ALL truth. God bless you! Quote
messenger Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Some of us may be confused as to what truth is. But God is not, The Lord says clearly: "I am the way, the truth and the life.. And in John 17:17, Christ says, "Sanctify them by the truth, Your Word is Truth" I am 53 yrs. old and only and SDA for about the last 30 yrs. And the only thing that has made sense to me, that has been real, reliable, truthful etc. Is the Word of God and the revelation of His Love and Truth in Christ! Quote "Sanctify them by the truth"
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2009 Moderators Posted January 4, 2009 I was involved with The SDA Reformed Church which denies the Trinity/Godhead. ... Do the SDA Reformed believe that Jesus Christ is a created being? Do they believe the Holy Spirit is an impersonal influence? I found these statements on their website: Quote: Jesus Christ is ~the Son of God, one in nature with the eternal Father. Through Christ all things were created... The Holy Spirit The Holy Spirit is Christ's representative upon earth, and is one in purpose with the Father and the Son. He is the Regenerator in the work of redemption. These three persons, God (the Father), Jesus Christ (the Son), and the Holy Spirit are the Godhead. Ellen White clearly taught that the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit are equal and that they are all eternal and members of the Godhead. Doesn't the SDA Reform believe what Ellen White taught on this issue? If not, how do they differ? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
fccool Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Truth is objective. "Subjective truth" isn't truth after all. regards, `og Not true . If A = objective and B= Subjective and C = truth... why wouldn't you think there be a time when A = B = C ? Quote
Neil D Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Originally Posted By: olger Truth is objective. "Subjective truth" isn't truth after all. regards, `og Not true . If A = objective and B= Subjective and C = truth... why wouldn't you think there be a time when A = B = C ? Sorry, but that is poor math.... Subjective truth does not equal Objective truth which does not equal Truth..... They are based upon totally different observations...At least, according to the medical field. Subjective truth is what a patient feels is true... Objective Truth is what the examiner observes is truth Truth is a combination of the two.... So, if you were to tell me that you have a stuff up nose, loud barking cough and were feeling slightly warm, I'd say you were suffering from a cold or flu...[subjective truth] Now, if during my examination of you, if find that you have a history of smoking, slighty purple lips,and blue fingers, gross lung sounds [specifically, rales and rhonch], and an arteriol blood gass of ph=7.25, CO2=48 PO2=50 and a HCO3=24, I would say that you were in a repiratory distress, or at least what we in the profession call " ventilator bait"...[objective truth] Combining these two truths together, and one can conclude that you are probably have Chronic Obstuctive Pulmonary Disease..[truth] THAT is my perspective.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Woody Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 I agree Redwood, you need to be careful of those legalists...I was caught up in one of them for a while before I met the SDA's mainstream. But I was involved with The SDA Reformed Church which denies the Trinity/Godhead. They are very legalised, but they are partly the reason why I chose to be a Seventh-day Adventist mainstream Christian--one who isn't so legalised like the Reformed Movement. Do you know who I am talking about????? www.sdarm.org please check them out on the internet, they put SDA's down and say we have lost the truth and only Reformed SDA's are SAVED!!! That is a very big statement.......... Go for it, check it out......... Yes. I agree ... that group is a very dangerous group. Praise God you were able to escape from their clutches. They are full of hate. A terrible witness. Unfortunately they us our good name. The Devil certainly is using them. I have had some experiences with this group. I have witnessed the bad that they can do in a community. They spread their hate with billboards on the interstate "THE POPE IS ANTICHRIST". How sick. They think they can spread rebuke instead of love. But it only harms God's cause. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 Originally Posted By: fccool Not true . If A = objective and B= Subjective and C = truth... why wouldn't you think there be a time when A = B = C ? [/quote'] Sorry, but that is poor math.... Subjective truth does not equal Objective truth which does not equal Truth..... They are based upon totally different observations...At least, according to the medical field. Subjective truth is what a patient feels is true... Objective Truth is what the examiner observes is truth Truth is a combination of the two.... So, if you were to tell me that you have a stuff up nose, loud barking cough and were feeling slightly warm, I'd say you were suffering from a cold or flu...[subjective truth] Now, if during my examination of you, if find that you have a history of smoking, slighty purple lips,and blue fingers, gross lung sounds [specifically, rales and rhonch], and an arteriol blood gass of ph=7.25, CO2=48 PO2=50 and a HCO3=24, I would say that you were in a repiratory distress, or at least what we in the profession call " ventilator bait"...[objective truth] Combining these two truths together, and one can conclude that you are probably have Chronic Obstuctive Pulmonary Disease..[truth] THAT is my perspective.... Sorry to disagree with my esteemed Pirate Captain ... but if you would please note what was said. He said that there would be a time when A=B=C . This is true and quite possible at times. No reason why all three could not be the same at times. And in fact they are most certainly equal at times. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Neil D Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Sorry to disagree with my esteemed Pirate Captain ... but if you would please note what was said. He said that there would be a time when A=B=C . This is true and quite possible at times. No reason why all three could not be the same at times. And in fact they are most certainly equal at times. Pray tell, when, on this blue ball of a planet short of Jesus' coming , ...when would one find that equation true? And I am not so sure that the same would still hold true for a 1000 years even after Jesus' coming....Because there's gonna be alot of "Uncle John was a really nice guy...How come he ain't here in Heaven?" whereupon a TV set pops up and shows his life record where he beat his wife, and kicked the dog. And when the SDA fund raisers came about every Xmas, he yelled at them, and told them what lowlifes they truely were...But he was always nice to his niece/newphew.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Woody Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 Quote: "Uncle John was a really nice guy...How come he ain't here in Heaven?" Sorry Uncle Neil . But that is not something I would say about 'Uncle John'. Uncle Redwood. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2009 Moderators Posted January 4, 2009 Originally Posted By: Luke Adam Goss I agree Redwood, you need to be careful of those legalists...I was caught up in one of them for a while before I met the SDA's mainstream. But I was involved with The SDA Reformed Church which denies the Trinity/Godhead. They are very legalised, but they are partly the reason why I chose to be a Seventh-day Adventist mainstream Christian--one who isn't so legalised like the Reformed Movement. Do you know who I am talking about????? www.sdarm.org please check them out on the internet, they put SDA's down and say we have lost the truth and only Reformed SDA's are SAVED!!! That is a very big statement.......... Go for it, check it out......... Yes. I agree ... that group is a very dangerous group. Praise God you were able to escape from their clutches. They are full of hate. A terrible witness. Unfortunately they us our good name. The Devil certainly is using them. I have had some experiences with this group. I have witnessed the bad that they can do in a community. They spread their hate with billboards on the interstate "THE POPE IS ANTICHRIST". How sick. They think they can spread rebuke instead of love. But it only harms God's cause. The SDA Reformed Movement had nothing to do with that billboard being put up. It was done by a different group. See: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27720 Quote: Weathers is part of The Rogue Valley Historic Seventh-day Adventists, which is not connected to, and is shunned by, the more well-known Seventh-day Adventists. It's his belief that the seventh day of the week, Saturday, is the scriptural day of rest for followers of God that originally prompted him to post billboards. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators Bravus Posted January 4, 2009 Moderators Posted January 4, 2009 You're almost right there, Neil, but 'objective' truth should be observer-independent, too: that is, not just you (who I implicitly believe always gets it 100% right) but every single qualified respiratory therapist in the world should give the same diagnosis, borne out by every single doctor working in that field, and so on. Even then it could be argued that this is only a (very good) proxy for the reality of objective truth... and from only a Western medicine perspective. But you're correct to say that objective and subjective truth have different evidentiary bases. I'm not sure how Biblical truth fits here: there certainly is not that kind of universal consensus. What it tends to come down to is people *asserting* very strongly that their own subjective interpretation is objectively true. I believe that objective truth does exist, but that it's an incredibly high standard, and one that we seldom reach in our flawed and human pursuit of truth. Working to correct and improve our subjective understandings, and bring them asymptotically closer and closer to truth, is our task. And I reiterate, a lot of our problems come from an arrogance or over-confidence in ascribing too high a degree of objectivity to our understandings. Humility and recognising that we don't yet know everything are the ways toward knowing more truth. "Trust those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it". Which brings us right back around to Redwood's original point: that in an atmosphere where, even if there is a single real, objective truth, there are a wide variety of different understandings on the part of people, being humble and teachable and open to others is more helpful and more likely to lead to good results. After all, it's just barely possible that someone else might be that tad bit closer to objective truth than we are... Quote Truth is important
Neil D Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Um...isn't there a rule about not putting words in other people's mouths...??? I wasn't refering to John...he not my "uncle"...[sitting up straighter] he's just... "John"... Ok, pray tell, back to my question, ...the time when subjective and objective and truthes will all be the same? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Woody Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 Quote: Which brings us right back around to Redwood's original point: that in an atmosphere where, even if there is a single real, objective truth, there are a wide variety of different understandings on the part of people, being humble and teachable and open to others is more helpful and more likely to lead to good results. After all, it's just barely possible that someone else might be that tad bit closer to objective truth than we are... Thank you Bravus. You put it so well. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2009 Moderators Posted January 4, 2009 "Trust those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it". If we go by that statement, we would tend to put more trust in the agnostic and atheist than in the Christian. Jesus said that God's word IS truth. The previous phrase of that verse shows that Jesus was saying that God's word is THE truth. Can anyone know the truth? Jesus said, "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." Clearly the One Who made the universe and Who Himself IS Truth taught that we can know the truth. Can each of us learn more of the truth? Certainly. But the fact that we learn more truth does not mean we do not know the truth or haven't found it. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 Quote: Jesus said that God's word IS truth. The previous phrase of that verse shows that Jesus was saying that God's word is THE truth. Your interpretation or mine. For ... your God and your interpretation if far different than mine. And this applies to each person here. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
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