EGW and inspiration

[messenger]

you don't need to YELL at us!!!!!

I am not yelling at you rudywoofs, I am only high lighting it in color with a bigger font. Yelling at you would if all letter were in capitals and bold in netettequete language.

[Stan]

The tribe here view it is as yelling..

[Bravus]

...and you pulled out that exact same set of quotes attacking those who disagree with you, in exactly the same font color and size, in a completely different thread. Pretty much a textbook example of EGW abuse.

[messenger]

The tribe here view it is as yelling..

I did not realize that,but now that I understand, no problem, I do not need to make it that big, I seen others do it and I do not mind because it helps me to see it better. But if it offensive too some, I will not do it, no problema!

[bygjymbo]

I was re-baptized.

As an infant, I was baptized into the Catholic church.

As an adult, I was baptized again.

This is a perfect example of a reason to do it.

Before you pose your arguements, let me phrase a couple of questions:

Is everybody in the Catholic church destined for hell-fire because of their mode of baptism?? Or maybe because they were too young?

Will there be times when God will honor infant baptism?? I think so.

Was it proper for me to be re-baptized? Of course.

[bygjymbo]

And the example of the "Baptism of John" is not quite appropriate in this case, mainly because ...

Quote:

For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit a few days from now.

Who baptized Jesus? Wasn't it John?

[bygjymbo]

And don't even try to say that the Holy Spirit was absent from my life all through my childhood years. I can think of many times that He was with me.

And the time between my "born again" conversion and the time I was baptized was over ten months. I can assure you, without the Holy Spirit's protection, I wouldn't have lasted that long...

[Woody]

I was re-baptized.

As an infant, I was baptized into the Catholic church.

As an adult, I was baptized again.

This is a perfect example of a reason to do it.

Before you pose your arguements, let me phrase a couple of questions:

Is everybody in the Catholic church destined for hell-fire because of their mode of baptism?? Or maybe because they were too young?

Will there be times when God will honor infant baptism?? I think so.

Was it proper for me to be re-baptized? Of course.

[John317]

I was re-baptized.

As an infant, I was baptized into the Catholic church.

As an adult, I was baptized again.

This is a perfect example of a reason to do it.

I agree with you-- that is a great example. If it's not a good time to be rebaptized, I don't know when it would be.

Quote:

Before you pose your arguements, let me phrase a couple of questions:

Is everybody in the Catholic church destined for hell-fire because of their mode of baptism?? Or maybe because they were too young?

I believe the answer to both questions is, no. God goes by the opportunity and the knowledge we have. Untold millions know nothing about the correct mode of baptism, or at least have never studied it out of the Bible.

Quote:

Will there be times when God will honor infant baptism?? I think so.

I agree. God loves each person and I don't believe He wants anyone lost. If a person doesn't know any better and has never had an opportunity to learn about baptism, God doesn't condemn them for it.

That's where you and I come in, though. God wants us to study the Bible with people who don't know these Bible truths.

We have to leave the judging to God, but we know that there are millions who will be lost because Christians did not do their duty to their neighbors and study the truth with them. That is an unpopular thing to say these days.

Quote:

Was it proper for me to be re-baptized? Of course.

You bet. It was exactly the right thing. Personally I'm very glad you chose to do it. There is no question that the Holy Spirit was involved in that choice. God be with you!!

[John317]

I think our discussion was referring to a 're-baptism' where the first one was the correct Biblical Baptism. And so far no one has produced any Bible texts that would justify a re-Baptism. To me it makes a statement of lack of faith that He couldn't die to save you from your sins or lack of understanding. When you go down to the watery grave ... you die. To say that you can rise again and die again ... is not the correct understanding of the state of the dead that I know of.

Quote:

Eph.4:4-6 "There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all."

The "one baptism" in Eph. 4: 5 is referring to the fact that there is only one kind of water baptism, and that we are all baptized into Christ when we accept it by faith and obey it from the heart.

The whole issue boils down to whether they were truly baptized or whether it was just an empty rite. If a person believes their first baptism was meaningless because they had no grasp of what it meant-- or if they left Christ and the church and went out "into the world"-- and have repented and experienced anew a death to sin, then it is legitimate for them to be rebaptized.

Quote:

The honest seeker after truth will not plead ignorance of the law as an excuse for transgression. Light was within his reach. God's Word is plain, and Christ has bidden him search the Scriptures. He reveres God's law as holy, just, and good, and he repents of his transgression. By faith he pleads the atoning blood of Christ, and grasps the promise of pardon. His former baptism does not satisfy him now. He has seen himself a sinner, condemned by the law of God. He has experienced anew a death to sin, and he desires again to be buried with Christ by baptism, that he may rise to walk in newness of life. Such a course is in harmony with the example of Paul in baptizing the Jewish converts. That incident was recorded by the Holy Spirit as an instructive lesson for the church.--Sketches From the Life of Paul, p. 133. (1883)

The Bible does contain evidence for rebaptism and Ellen White clearly says it is acceptable if people choose to be rebaptized under certain circumstances which she describes.

[Woody]

Quote:

The whole issue boils down to whether they were truly baptized or whether it was just an empty rite. If a person believes their first baptism was meaningless because they had no grasp of what it meant-- or if they left Christ and the church and went out "into the world"-- and have repented and experienced anew a death to sin, then it is legitimate for them to be rebaptized.

An interesting theory. But could you provide some Biblical references for this theory of yours?

[John317]

Quote:

The whole issue boils down to whether they were truly baptized or whether it was just an empty rite. If a person believes their first baptism was meaningless because they had no grasp of what it meant-- or if they left Christ and the church and went out "into the world"-- and have repented and experienced anew a death to sin, then it is legitimate for them to be rebaptized.

An interesting theory. But could you provide some Biblical references for this theory of yours?

Study Acts 19: 1-17 in conjunction with the following paragraph by the Spirit of Prophecy:

The honest seeker after truth will not plead ignorance of the law as an excuse for transgression. Light was within his reach. God's Word is plain, and Christ has bidden him search the Scriptures. He reveres God's law as holy, just, and good, and he repents of his transgression. By faith he pleads the atoning blood of Christ, and grasps the promise of pardon. His former baptism does not satisfy him now. He has seen himself a sinner, condemned by the law of God. He has experienced anew a death to sin, and he desires again to be buried with Christ by baptism, that he may rise to walk in newness of life. Such a course is in harmony with the example of Paul in baptizing the Jewish converts. That incident was recorded by the Holy Spirit as an instructive lesson for the church.--Sketches From the Life of Paul, p. 133. (1883)

[Woody]

I knew you would have to quote Ellen. But you still haven't proved it by her statement.

[olger]

"But you still haven't proved it my her statement."

hunnh?

[bygjymbo]

The whole issue boils down to whether they were truly baptized or whether it was just an empty rite. If a person believes their first baptism was meaningless because they had no grasp of what it meant-- or if they left Christ and the church and went out "into the world"-- and have repented and experienced anew a death to sin, then it is legitimate for them to be rebaptized.

That's EXACTLY my story.

We all agree thast even "sprinkling" can sometimes be legitimate. Let's say I was talked into being baptised by immersion when I was 16, besause my parents pressured me, or maybe to impress some girl in my church, does that mean that I'm forbidden from having a real baptismal experience?

Suppose that I had a "real" baptism in my teens, but joined a coven in my twenties, am I not allowed to "undo" my committment to Satan and re-commit myself to God? I would be ecstatic that God would be merciful enough to let me re-join Him.

It's not so much the method, it's the result. Isn't that what those verses are talking about?? All we're doing now is splitting hairs.

Now, don't get me wrong, because of our "light", we should only practice Biblical baptism.

[bygjymbo]

Let's elaborate more, suppose I was baptised as a kid, fell away, and was 87 years old and dying. Would you forbid me to be baptised again??

[John317]

That is exactly what happened to me. I was baptized when I was 15. It isn't that I didn't want to be, but it was mostly because all the other kids were doing it. So I am not sorry that I got baptized. It is just that I did not understand it and a short time afterward I completely left Christ and the church for about 10 years. I got into drugs, drinking, male prostitution, and lived with a man as his gay lover.

But then the time came when the Lord worked on my heart and brought me to repentance. I'm quite sure that by this time my membership in the church was not even on the books, and it wouldn't have mattered to me even if it had been, because I never had been a true member of the church. I had been serving Satan, not God, all those years. I had truly been a slave of the devil and of sin.

Under those circumstances-- and considering Acts 19: 1-17-- wasn't "rebaptism" the only right thing to do?

Baptism represents dying to sin and rising to a new life in Christ, and is initiation into life in Christ as well as in the corporate body of Christ, the church.

Some are buried alive-- never dying. Is it any wonder that such people do not rise to a new life? That was the way I was: I had gone under the water, but I hadn't died to sin. So when I did finally die to sin, it was only appropriate that I be baptized as a public declaration of my new life in Jesus. (Romans 6:1-4; 13: 14; Gal. 3: 27.)

Quote:

When one has been baptized into Christ, rebaptism is called for only if there has been a definite apostasy from the beliefs and standards that fellowship with Christ requires" (6 BC 373).

This is a subject which each individual must conscientiously take his position upon in the fear of God. This subject should be carefully presented in the spirit of tenderness and love. Then the duty of urging belongs to no one but God; give God a chance to work with His Holy Spirit upon the minds, so that the individual will be perfectly convinced and satisfied in regard to this advanced step. A spirit of controversy and contention should never be allowed to come in and prevail on this subject. Do not take the Lord's work out of His hands into your own hands. Those who have conscientiously taken their position upon the commandments of God, will, if rightly dealt with, accept all essential truth. But it needs wisdom to deal with human minds. Some will be longer in seeing and understanding some kindred truths than others, especially will this be the case in regard to the subject of rebaptism, but there is a divine hand that is leading them--a divine spirit impressing their hearts, and they will know what they ought to do and do it. Evangelism (1946), page 373, paragraph 2

[John317]

"But you still haven't proved it my her statement."

hunnh?

Hey great picture of the doc. He looks puzzled doesn't he.

[Woody]

"But you still haven't proved it my her statement."

hunnh?

Cute olger. I just love you so much. Your nonsense is always welcome here. It gives us something to laugh at.

[Woody]

Let's elaborate more, suppose I was baptised as a kid, fell away, and was 87 years old and dying. Would you forbid me to be baptised again??

Why is there any need? What do you think foot washing is for?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: bygjymbo

Let's elaborate more, suppose I was baptised as a kid, fell away, and was 87 years old and dying. Would you forbid me to be baptised again??

Why is there any need? What do you think foot washing is for?

Some are buried alive-- never having died.

If a person goes under the water but never died to sin and never received the Holy Spirit in his life, then the baptism was not genuine. This is what 1 John 3: 1-10 is saying. It's talking about people who were never born of God. They never were raised to a new life in Christ.

Therefore when they do die to sin and are raised to a new life in Christ through the baptism of the Spirit, it is only appropriate that they will be baptized again, because their first baptism was not effective. It was only an empty rite.

The foot washing is for those who have already been cleansed in a baptism of both the Spirit and the water. However, if an individual's first baptism was only a water baptism, the foot-washing won't be adequate because that person never truly died to sin. When a person believes that this is the case-- as the 87 year old man described above-- then the Holy Spirit will lead him to rebaptism.

[Woody]

So, would you suggest that each time we sin ... that we be rebaptized with this kind of theory?

[John317]

So, would you suggest that each time we sin ... that we be rebaptized with this kind of theory?

Quote:

When one has been baptized into Christ, rebaptism is called for only if there has been a definite apostasy from the beliefs and standards that fellowship with Christ requires" (6 BC 373).

This is a subject which each individual must conscientiously take his position upon in the fear of God. This subject should be carefully presented in the spirit of tenderness and love. Then the duty of urging belongs to no one but God; give God a chance to work with His Holy Spirit upon the minds, so that the individual will be perfectly convinced and satisfied in regard to this advanced step. A spirit of controversy and contention should never be allowed to come in and prevail on this subject. Do not take the Lord's work out of His hands into your own hands. Those who have conscientiously taken their position upon the commandments of God, will, if rightly dealt with, accept all essential truth. But it needs wisdom to deal with human minds. Some will be longer in seeing and understanding some kindred truths than others, especially will this be the case in regard to the subject of rebaptism, but there is a divine hand that is leading them--a divine spirit impressing their hearts, and they will know what they ought to do and do it. Evangelism (1946), page 373, paragraph 2

[Woody]

Define this theory of apostasy.

[John317]

Apostasy is

the abandonment or renunciation of a religious or political belief.

If you need further help, ask your pastor next time you see her. She's got a Masters degree in theology from a great university.

Give her the Ellen White quote and ask her what it means. It's pretty plain English but if you don't understand it, I'm sure she will be able to explain it to you.