olger Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 Yes, maybe...but can this been substantiated from the Scriptures? John 15:18-19. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Moderators John317 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Moderators Posted February 21, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 Yes, but not only "his holiness" but even Satan himself will appear and claim to have the solutions to the world's problems. Yes, maybe...but can this been substantiated from the Scriptures? See 2 Cor. 11: 14. There's also the fact that if Satan appeared to Jesus in the wilderness, it makes sense that when the battle gets down towards the end, and God give Satan powers that he hasn't had up to now, he will do everything he can to defeat God's plans. It makes sense to me that Satan will take a much more active and personal role in trying to take control of the whole earth. He knows this is his last chance-- it is either now or never. Ellen White (GC 624, 625) is very clear that Satan will appear as Christ, and this certainly does not contradict anything in the Bible. The test is not whether a prophet says something that is not in the Scriptures but whether a prophet says anything that clearly contradicts God's previous revelations. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 "It will be seen that the glory shining in the face of Jesus is the glory of self-sacrificing love. In the light from Calvary it will be seen that the law of self-renouncing love is the law of life for earth and heaven; that the love which "seeketh not her own" has its source in the heart of God; and that in the meek and lowly One is manifested the character of Him who dwelleth in the light which no man can approach unto." [DA 19] Ex 33:18 And he [Moses] said, "Please, show me Your glory." 19 Then He said, "I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." 20 But He said, "You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live." So Satan can appear as Christ, but no one can look upon Christ in His glorified state and live. Acts 26:12 ...as I [saul] journeyed to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 13 at midday [i.e., the brightest part of the day], O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. 14 And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.' 15 So I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said, 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.' Note that Saul didn't see Christ, only the light coming from Him. I believe that Saul, turned Paul, had eye problems after this encounter with God. This was that "thorn in the flesh" he spoke of to keep him from becoming proud. If you can look upon the "fake" Christ, well, he isn't Christ. Rob Quote
Moderators Bravus Posted February 21, 2009 Moderators Posted February 21, 2009 It'll be interesting to see modern people's reactions to 'signs and wonders'. I mean, they've seen magicians make the Statue of Liberty disappear and all manner of other feats. Quote Truth is important
Moderators John317 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Moderators Posted February 21, 2009 Sure. I agree with that. He will appear as a very beautiful being and have the most wonderful voice, but he won't be able to counterfeit Christ's true glory or the manner of His coming. Satan will make it appear that he is raising the dead and healing people but he can't actually raise the dead. He can heal people of diseases that he gives them, but he can't do genuine healings. The only way people will know the truth from error at that time will be through the Holy Spirit and by studying the Bible and knowing the truth now. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 If you can look upon the "fake" Christ, well, he isn't Christ. Even if we could live after seeing God there's something else: "When the prophet Daniel beheld the glory [i.e., the glory of self-sacrificing love"] surrounding the heavenly messenger [a mere angel] that was sent unto him, he was overwhelmed with a sense of his own weakness and imperfection. Describing the effect of the wonderful scene, he says, “There remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.” Daniel 10:8. The soul thus touched will hate its selfishness, abhor its self-love... "When the Spirit of Christ stirs the heart with its marvelous awakening power, there is a sense of deficiency in the soul, that leads to contrition of mind, and humiliation of self, rather than to proud boasting of what has been acquired." [RH 10-16-1888] So, the 2nd thing is if we were actually viewing Christ we would be filled with "a sense of deficiency". We would feel altogether sinful. The false Christ will, if anything, make us feel prideful. After all he is the master politician. Oh, and here's one more on "the glory of God": "The angel that appeared at the Saviour's tomb, his countenance "like lightning, and his raiment white as snow," caused the keepers for fear of him to quake, and they "became as dead men." [GC11, 511] So just one angel, fully reflecting the self-emptying love of God, can cause one to drop to his/her knees. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Moderators Posted February 21, 2009 I doubt that by the time all of these end-time events occur there will be any true atheists alive. They will know that there must be a God or some kind of supernatural force or Intelligence. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Moderators Posted February 21, 2009 So just one angel, fully reflecting the self-emptying love of God, can cause one to drop to his/her knees. And if that is just one angel, imagine the brightness and the glory when Christ returns because he brings many millions, probably even billions, of angels with Him. The Bible indicates that everyone on both sides of the earth will see Him at the same time. How this can happen I don't know. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 Sure. I agree with that..... And how about the 2nd point? As a matter of fact here's a better quote: It was the same presence of divine holiness that had caused the prophet Daniel to fall as one dead before the angel of God. He said, “My comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.” So when Isaiah beheld the glory of the Lord, he exclaimed, “Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.” Dan. 10:8; Isa. 6:5. Humanity, with its weakness and sin, was brought in contrast with the perfection of divinity, and he felt altogether deficient and unholy . Thus it has been with all who have been granted a view of God’s greatness and majesty. [DA 246] None of this denies Christian growth, it just points out that we fall short of the glory of God (i.e., His selfless agape love). As I've said before "agape" isn't just one of God's attributes rather agape is who God is!!!! He is the source of love throughout the universe. If we were to meet up with God we would feel "altogether deficient and unholy"! I doubt if Satan can produce this feeling and why would he for he is the author of sin and death. Quote
Moderators Bravus Posted February 21, 2009 Moderators Posted February 21, 2009 I dunno, I reckon he's pretty good at making us feel inadequate and deficient. It's one of his greatest tools. Quote Truth is important
Moderators John317 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Moderators Posted February 21, 2009 Humanity, with its weakness and sin, was brought in contrast with the perfection of divinity, and he felt altogether deficient and unholy. Thus it has been with all who have been granted a view of God’s greatness and majesty. [DA 246] Yes, of course-- all true. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Moderators Posted February 21, 2009 I dunno, I reckon he's pretty good at making us feel inadequate and deficient. It's one of his greatest tools. That is what I was going to say. He loves us to keep our eyes fixed on our sins because he knows it is discouraging. The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sins but He doesn't keep rubbing our noses in them once we've confessed them and been forgiven of them (unless we're continuing to commit them still). If we have truly asked for forgiveness for our sins, we may be sure it is not the Holy Spirit that is making us feel condemned and discouraged because of them. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 I dunno, I reckon he's pretty good at making us feel inadequate and deficient. It's one of his greatest tools. God doesn't beat us over the head...that's not my point...it's meeting up with God that would overwhelm us with a sense of our iniquity. However, feeling sinful doesn't bother me because I know that Jesus loves me more than Himself. That's because there's no "self" in God's love. He loved me when I hated his guts...He loved me when I was at my lowest point. He loved me so much that He was willing to say goodbye to life forever (I'm writing about the cross) so that I might have heaven in His place. My point was Satan will make us feel good....He'll pump us up with pride. The true Christ won't! Rob Quote
jasd Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Is it wise to allow ourselves to be blindsided by extreme parochialism..., or .Orgism? holy 3. Living according to a strict or highly moral religious or spiritual system; saintly: 4. Specified or set apart for a religious purpose: 6. Regarded as deserving special respect or reverence: holiness 1. The state or quality of being holy; sanctity. (sanctify: an act within our purview) [ed.italicized added] reverence 6. Regarded as deserving special respect or reverence: (or deference) [ed.italicized added] >>(Christ's people) will be treated as He was treated.<< Indicatively so. >>Why?<< Because Moses inopportunely struck the type/signifier of Christ (1 Cor 10:4) – when he was commanded to speak only (Num 20:8,11). The Xtians, Jesus Christ’s body (of which He is the head), will apparently, fulfill the latter ‘strikings’ of the type of Christ in the Wilderness. To Atone[ment], as it were. ...reason enough that Moses should not have entered into that Promised Land, for he consigned the Xtians to trouble that was not originally intended, imho. Quote
jasd Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 >>...Satan himself will appear and claim to have the solutions to the world's problems.<< Apparently, as an angel of light... with the predilections of a destroying lion. Quote
Cosmin M. Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 --Off Topic-- Hey guys! Like the banner I made? Quote
jasd Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 >>"I don't remember any time, maybe even in the Great Depression, when things went down quite so fast, quite so uniformly around the world," Volcker said.<< Almost, as though it were, euphemistically, "in one hour" :-o Quote
Moderators John317 Posted February 22, 2009 Author Moderators Posted February 22, 2009 My point was Satan will make us feel good....He'll pump us up with pride. The true Christ won't! The Holy Spirit gives us peace and joy, true joy, but not "pride." Big difference. The Holy Spirit leads to humility but not a feeling of worthlessness or as if we are dirt. Satan has something for everyone. He knows us through and through, and he doesn't care which side of the narrow road to God's kingdom we fall off of. The fall off the road will take everyone to the same place. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
LifeHiscost Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 >>"I don't remember any time, maybe even in the Great Depression, when things went down quite so fast, quite so uniformly around the world," Volcker said.<< Almost, as though it were, euphemistically, "in one hour" :-o TU Quote Lift Jesus up!!
olger Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 I dunno, I reckon he's pretty good at making us feel inadequate and deficient. It's one of his greatest tools. I agree Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
olger Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Do you really want to go through life reacting to people? Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
olger Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert My point was Satan will make us feel good....He'll pump us up with pride. The true Christ won't! The Holy Spirit gives us peace and joy, true joy, but not "pride." Big difference. The Holy Spirit leads to humility but not a feeling of worthlessness or as if we are dirt. Satan has something for everyone. He knows us through and through, and he doesn't care which side of the narrow road to God's kingdom we fall off of. The fall off the road will take everyone to the same place. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Lineman Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Quote: 1 Thessalonians 5:2-4 (New International Version)2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. Please note that we are not to be surprised by what is happening. We are to understand this before it all happens. In other words we are not to bury our heads in the sand as some would suggest. I believe that we are to understand the exact order of events before they happen. Am I wrong here? Why would God want us to be aware of what is going to happen to this earth? Could it be that as we see these things happening all around us our faith, our trust in Him will grow? BTW, this "sudden destruction" cannot be from war, or even from acts by terrorists, though more of that may still happen in the days to come. Quote: Matthew 246You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains. Here is a partial list of what we know: We know that the economy will get to the place where no one can buy or sell unless they follow the dictates of the governments of the whole earth. We know that it will appear that things are getting better both spiritually and economically. (People will be saying, "Peace and safety".) We know that Satan will pretend to be Christ at some point. (This event will bring people from all over the earth into becoming followers of one "person".) We know that first the USA, then other countries will enforce laws that are contrary to God's laws. (Forced Sunday worship seems possible world wide only after Satan appears as Jesus, IMHO.) We know that some Christians will leave the USA and go to other countries to get away from problems and begin to share the Gospel in their new homeland. What else do we know? Quote Visit and Share the BibleTimelines.com URL ! (Explain the Gospel in just a few minutes, or maybe even seconds.)
Members phkrause Posted February 22, 2009 Members Posted February 22, 2009 And don't forget the verses just before in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we you are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words." Christ never touches the earth again until the new earth. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
jasd Posted February 23, 2009 Posted February 23, 2009 >>...shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and we shall always be with the Lord.<< [ed.jasd] I know that the .Org holds to the teaching that the above underlined places the emphasis upon the idea that supports the meaning - we shall be, thereafter, always be ‘in the air’; that is, a millennial sojourn beyond earth – rather than the stated, we shall always be with the Lord. That noted, what then must we make of Job’s conviction? following...: >>Christ never touches the earth again until the new earth.<< Job 19:25 For I know [that] my redeemer liveth, and [that] he shall stand at the latter [day] upon the earth: Job 19:26 And [though] after my skin [worms] destroy this [body], yet in my flesh shall I see God: Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; [though] my reins be consumed within me. Several questions obtain: / what does Job mean by the ‘latter day’? / and, should we accept that the ‘latter day’ is Job’s reference to the Parousia – then, would it not appear that the Redeemer Jesus Christ will stand on the earth upon the righteous having been ‘raptured’? Quote
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