Elder Darnall's dream

[BobRyan]

Of course. But as I've pointed out before, there are true warnings and false warnings, true prophets and false prophets. You have decided in your own mind that this is a true warning.

[lazarus]

The email alone is not evidence. But when you look at ALL the things going on, I just can't understand how anyone could not think the end is not near. Yet I do not see many people behaving like they did in the 1840's.

Well..... in the 1840's they said Jesus was coming back, he didn't. He had a different plan!

There are some elements that make this "prophesy" problematic.

There is no written account.

Bro Darnell is dead.

In the accounts I have seen there is no specific individual mentioned who actually heard the Elder relate the dream. We really need to know how this was "verified to be true". It could simply be some bored individual having fun!

[Tom Wetmore]

Quote:

Got an e-mail... Found it on the internets... So it must be true!!!

Well I find FAR more truth on the internet than in the newspaper or TV.

I trust the internet...

... UN... New World Order... sound familiar?

[Tom Wetmore]

This story does have all the hallmarks of an urban legend - a cousin of a friend of mine overheard it at the barbershop from the uncle of the man who heard it straight from the mouth of the preacher...

In a subsequent e-mail from Steve Wohlberg of White Horse ministries, he acknowledged that he had done nothing to verify the story before he originally circulated it. He simply trusted the person who passed it on to him.

We don't know what embellishments have been added to it, the accuracy of people's memories many years after the fact, the personal bias of those who are now "remembering" or who have originated this story, etc.

And assuming that Pastor Darnell really did have such a dream, did he remember and tell it accurately or understand the meaning of what he dreamed?

It is curious that those now recalling and are circulating this dream do so out of a sadly familiar doomsday scenario approach to the end of the world with the clear implication that Obama's role is to serve as an agent or catalyst of the ultimate Armageddon doomsday scenario. And there is also an undercurrent of racial tension and strife suggested that would serve as an accelerant to the evil that precedes the end of time.

Consider another telling of "I have a dream" by a black man and think about it. Whose dream does Obama come closer to fulfilling? And what implications would that have for an alternate end time scenario of, let's say, the gospel of the brotherhood and common good for all mankind being spread to the ends of the earth to culminate in the final rescue.

I too have had a dream. It is that God's people would finally get it - the dream that Dr. King so eloquently voiced in my youth. I have said that may be what God is waiting so long and so patiently for - a people that truly loves one another just as He loves us. I think that is what Jesus said.

Maybe Obama is an agent of that change...

I can live with that ending.

Tom

[Bravus]

And the other warning sign to me is that the people circulating it are selling something. Their motivations cannot be unmixed.

Bob, the very fact that you are so strong in condemning those who question this shows that you do not yourself question it. I think that's pretty clear, even if you're claiming you haven't made up your mind.

[phkrause]

Bravus as much as Bob his leaning one way you are leaning the other. And that is fine, everyone should be entitled to an opinion. My problem is the making of a statement that Steve Wohlberg would be motivated to lower his principals to circulate something just to make a point. Especially when you know nothing about the kind of Christian that he is. Knowing the kind of person he is, I don't believe that he would have done that, and he should've been given the benefit of the doubt.

pk

[Bravus]

pk, I don't know whether this is true or not. I was simply listing things that worry me about it. I accept your point about Steve Wohlberg, but there remain many other things about it that worry me. I haven't said it's untrue, I've simply asked 'what if?'

[phkrause]

Ok, thanks for that. I don't have a problem with this dream or vision. As long as its kept in perspective. Like I mentioned in a post towards the beginning of this thread, he could easily be talking about another African American President still in the future. For me it doesn't necessarily mean that he's talking about Obama. But it is interesting that he would have a dream or vision of an African American President back in the early 80s.

pk

[Guest truthseeker007]

In the beginning i was quite positive about Obama, but now he acts more like a world leader than the president of the USA. He said Turkey should join the EU, something which is totally ludacris and impossible. He wants to get rid of the nukes in the world, etc. etc. etc. I am wondering if he is ever going to cross that line between being ambitious and being dictatorial...

[lazarus]

He said Turkey should join the EU, something which is totally ludacris and impossible.

Turkey's application to accede to the European Union (previously the European Communities) was made on 14 April 1987. Turkey has been an associate member of the European Union (EU) and its predecessors since 1963.[1] After the eleven founding members, Turkey was one of the first countries to become a member of the Council of Europe in 1949, and was also a founding member of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) in 1961[2] and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) in 1973. It has also been an associate member of the Western European Union since 1992. Turkey signed a Customs Union agreement with the EU in 1995 and was officially recognised as a candidate for full membership on 12 December 1999, at the Helsinki summit of the European Council. Negotiations were started on 3 October 2005, and the process is likely to take at least a decade to complete.[3] The membership bid has become a major controversy of the ongoing enlargement of the European Union.

Quote:

He wants to get rid of the nukes in the world, etc. etc. etc. I am wondering if he is ever going to cross that line between being ambitious and being dictatorial...

Fear and ignorance is a great source of much foolishness that is being spread about the American President.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Turkey has 70 million residents, most of them are Muslim. In the EU we have a hard time cooperatiing with each other because actually governments don t want to lose sovereignty. If Turkey would join the EU, it would tear this very intensive European project in two. It is not Obama his business to say anything about the EU. If this project fails, anarchy will once again sweep throughout the Western civilizations in Europe.

I am not afraid and i am not ignorant, i am thinking though that the US president has some sort of unqensionable lust for power. He thinks he can do everything, but sometimes it is better to let countries decide for themselves what is best for them. How would you feel if we as Europeans began to comment on your immigration policies, etc. etc.

[lazarus]

Turkey has 70 million residents, most of them are Muslim. In the EU we have a hard time cooperatiing with each other because actually governments don t want to lose sovereignty. If Turkey would join the EU, it would tear this very intensive European project in two.

Why would it tear the EU in two? Many Euro-zone countries have large muslim populations and the secular Turkish state may help some EU countries ease the tensions they have with their muslim populations

Quote:

It is not Obama his business to say anything about the EU. If this project fails, anarchy will once again sweep throughout the Western civilizations in Europe.

The two previous times that Europe descended into war the US became deeply involved, that's why the US has thousands of troops still in Europe. It really is Obama's business as an American president, like it or not.

Quote:

I am not afraid and i am not ignorant,

I apologize, forgive the sharpens of my words. I don't know you and would not want to describe you as ignorant. I do however sense a certain fear as to what Obama will do.

Quote:

How would you feel if we as Europeans began to comment on your immigration policies, etc. etc.

I'm not an American. I was born and lived most of my life in Europe. As far as I am concerned anybody has the right to comment about any county's business at any time.

[Woody]

Quote:

i am thinking though that the US president has some sort of unqensionable lust for power

This much ... we are in agreement with.

[Bravus]

(darn my vow)

[Woody]

I hope this helps ease the pain my friend.

[phkrause]

Here bravus is the latest email that I just received from White Horse Media,

"Final thoughts about the dream

Dear friend,

As most of you know, about two weeks ago I sent out an e-news about a man in the 1980's who apparently had a dream about Jesus Christ returning when America had a black president. Two weeks later, our office is still being flooded with questions about this. Significantly, we have also received emails from people stating that they knew the dreamer personally. Some were positive, and some were negative.

As I stated previously (on 3-25 and 3-31), when White Horse Media first learned about this dream we felt the information was worth sharing simply as an "FYI" for people to consider and file away in their hearts. That's all. Two weeks later, especially after learning certain details from those who claim to have known the dreamer personally, and who question his credibility, we feel compelled to clarify that White Horse Media does NOT endorse the dreamer or the dream at all.

We have learned a valuable lesson from this experience: always follow due diligence without exception. In the future, as we near the return of our Lord, we have no doubt that more dreams will come; some will be true, yet others will be false. The Bible does say that in the "last days" some will "dream dreams" (Acts 2:17) through the Holy Spirit, yet Satan will also work "with all power, signs, and lying wonders" (2 Thessalonians 2:9). Indeed, we must be very cautious. Paul's counsel is timely, "Test all things; hold fast what is good" (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

In less than a week White Horse Media will begin filming 13 TV programs about the "time of trouble" predicted in the Bible (see Daniel 12:1). Filming dates are April 13-17. We would greatly appreciate your prayers on those dates. Truly, "the devil" is filled with "great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time" (Revelation 12:12) and he opposes the efforts of all who are seeking "to make ready a people prepared for the Lord" (Luke 1:17).

Concerning that 1980's dream, based on what I know now, I think it was a mistake to "forward" it without more thorough research. Which leads me to another key point in this e-news: if you make a mistake, admit it. You will be a better man or woman because of it. Thomas Edison once said, "Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently." May we always accept correction from our Savior, "For whom the Lord loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives" (Hebrews 12:6)."

pk

[Bravus]

Cool, thanks very much for sharing that.

[lazarus]

Thanks PK!

Too many unanswered questions...........now answered.

[phkrause]

You guys are welcomed.

pk

[Woody]

For a clearer view of end times.... World Review Article

Excellent ... my wife and I read it for worship earlier today.

[aldona]

Very good article. Should be required reading for all Adventists.

Quote:

Why Adventists would get sucked in by such hysteria baffles me. But when we do, we degrade the value of prophecy and make religion a curiosity in the eyes of people who might otherwise be sympathetic listeners—even potential believers. One of our chief concerns should be for the long-term credibility of the church. Whether we’re speaking or writing, we should seek to put things in such a way that the detractors of the church cannot easily tear them apart or poke fun at them.

Let’s remember that our pious predictions of the nearness of the coming, based on the latest calamity, do not influence the time of the event. If they did, then Jesus would have been here since the mid-nineteenth century, a time of unprecedented advent expectation and fervor.

[TruthWave]

Here bravus is the latest email that I just received from White Horse Media,

"Final thoughts about the dream

Dear friend,

As most of you know, about two weeks ago I sent out an e-news about a man in the 1980's who apparently had a dream about Jesus Christ returning when America had a black president. Two weeks later, our office is still being flooded with questions about this. Significantly, we have also received emails from people stating that they knew the dreamer personally. Some were positive, and some were negative.

As I stated previously (on 3-25 and 3-31), when White Horse Media first learned about this dream we felt the information was worth sharing simply as an "FYI" for people to consider and file away in their hearts. That's all. Two weeks later, especially after learning certain details from those who claim to have known the dreamer personally, and who question his credibility, we feel compelled to clarify that White Horse Media does NOT endorse the dreamer or the dream at all.

We have learned a valuable lesson from this experience: always follow due diligence without exception. In the future, as we near the return of our Lord, we have no doubt that more dreams will come; some will be true, yet others will be false. The Bible does say that in the "last days" some will "dream dreams" (Acts 2:17) through the Holy Spirit, yet Satan will also work "with all power, signs, and lying wonders" (2 Thessalonians 2:9). Indeed, we must be very cautious. Paul's counsel is timely, "Test all things; hold fast what is good" (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

In less than a week White Horse Media will begin filming 13 TV programs about the "time of trouble" predicted in the Bible (see Daniel 12:1). Filming dates are April 13-17. We would greatly appreciate your prayers on those dates. Truly, "the devil" is filled with "great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time" (Revelation 12:12) and he opposes the efforts of all who are seeking "to make ready a people prepared for the Lord" (Luke 1:17).

Concerning that 1980's dream, based on what I know now, I think it was a mistake to "forward" it without more thorough research. Which leads me to another key point in this e-news: if you make a mistake, admit it. You will be a better man or woman because of it. Thomas Edison once said, "Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently." May we always accept correction from our Savior, "For whom the Lord loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives" (Hebrews 12:6)."

pk

When the Holy Spirit is poured out in very last of the last days, I'm confident that we will be able to discern the Holy Spirit's messages from the false demonic spirits. I also expect that there will be skepticism from the powers that be when it becomes evident that lay people may be prophesy in the name of the Lord.

[Woody]

Have you read the April Review p. 16 as CoA suggested?

[TruthWave]

Have you read the April Review p. 16 as CoA suggested?

I read the article right before I left on a business trip. It was very insightful. However, most of our members in the NAD are still not ready for the powerful satanic forces that will be brought to bear on us in the last days.

[Woody]

Have you done a poll to determine this? Or did you ask each one individually?