Elder Darnall's dream

[BobRyan]

Good Bible points about God's continued use of prophets not only in the NT - but also beyond the writing of the NT as we see in Eph 4, 1Cor 12, Rev 12, Joel 2 and as we see in the case of Ellen White. Come to think of it -- didn't we just have an entire quater devoted to study of that key point? Hopefully all were taking notes)

"In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul."Acts 13:1 NIV

"Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place." Revelation 22:6 NKJV

Regards!

[Planey]

We have had a lot of Scripture quoted at us which purports to show why we should unquestioningly accept anyone who comes along claiming to have had dreams from God. Apparently at the risk of our mortal souls.

Well here are some of the Bible texts that ensure I will carefully scrutinise any such claims, with prayer for guidance from the Scripture with close help from the Holy Spirit:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."Matthew 7:15 NIV

"and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people." Matthew 24:11 NIV

"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible." Matthew 24:11 NIV

"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible." Mark 13:22 NIV

"Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets." Luke 6:26 NIV

"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves." 2 Peter 2:1 NIV

"Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1 NIV

Surely this gives me good reason to be hesitant in blindly chasing after all such unsubstantiated stories (particularly ones that have been denounced by the person who first reported and initially endorsed them.)

Graeme

[Woody]

[Bravus]

Thanks Planey, exactly what this thread needed.

[Nan]

So this would put me back to the beginning...to use such reports as a reminder to be very aware of the times in which we live, and that I should spend more time with God each day.

I would think some dreams of the sort described at the start of the thread come because the subject is very concerned about coming events - not trying to deliberately deceive.

"Watch, and be ready".

[BobRyan]

We have had a lot of Scripture quoted at us which purports to show why we should unquestioningly accept anyone

The fictional "you should unquestioningly accept anyone..." post does not exist. (As we all know).

The "condemn them all and just stick with the Bible" post does.

(Just wanting to insert some factual history about this thread after that statement above).

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

So this would put me back to the beginning...to use such reports as a reminder to be very aware of the times in which we live, and that I should spend more time with God each day.

I would think some dreams of the sort described at the start of the thread come because the subject is very concerned about coming events - not trying to deliberately deceive.

"Watch, and be ready".

The report that Wohlberg gave about Darnall was the more factually accurate "Jack Darnall had a dream in the 1980's" and Wohlberg simply reported the fact. Wohlberg was explicit in his initial announcement in saying that he was not making a claim about someone being a prophet -- he was just reporting the fact that the dream was reported in the 1980's and what the content of the dream was.

Interesting that we later were treated to a "Factless" retraction of a kind -- without telling us anything about what was wrong in the initial report since the initial reported claimed nothing at all - except that history can be found for the statement that Jack Darnall reported this dream in the 1980's.

in Christ,

Bob

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Planey

We have had a lot of Scripture quoted at us which purports to show why we should unquestioningly accept anyone

The fictional "you should unquestioningly accept anyone..." post does not exist. (As we all know).

The "condemn them all and just stick with the Bible" post does.

(Just wanting to insert some factual history about this thread after that statement above).

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

I posted that since it is somewhat predictable that when some line of reason fails -- fiction is brought in and then loudly applauded as a good substitute for factual argument.

Hence my point above that there was in fact NO post here that ever argued in favor of "accept anyone without question".

But you have to admit that a straw man like pretending that someone posted in favor of "accept anyone without question" is much easier to oppose than the actual discussion being had here.

in Christ,

Bob

[Bravus]

You did not post that in so many words, but you posted every text and warning about failing to accept prophets, and completely ignored the balancing texts - every bit as scriptural that Planey posted warning about false prophets. It is possible to say something without saying it in so many words, and claiming now that you were not saying it at all is just disingenuous. If you had been willing to recognise the danger of false prophets *even once* earlier in the thread you might have a leg to stand on.

[BobRyan]

You did not post that in so many words

[BobRyan]

Far from arguing the fictional "accept anything put out there uncritically" -- my position on this thread has been "don't make stuff up". I have argued for balance.

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Of course. But as I've pointed out before, there are true warnings and false warnings, true prophets and false prophets. You have decided in your own mind that this is a true warning.

[Planey]

Alright, I'll bite, BobRyan.

What was the message you were trying to get across by posting repeatedly and voluminously quoting many Bible texts with warnings not to ignore true prophets and did not include one warning from the same source warning about accepting false prophets?

Graeme

[BobRyan]

Well - how about we simply quote the post and see if the point is clear?

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We have all we need in the Bible and the Bible alone.

[LifeHiscost]

Your position is transparently flawed in that regard.

in Christ,

Bob

Both of you, Bob and Bravus, have a measure of patience which I don't, and that allows me to see punch and counter punch without any damage to myself. OTOH my minds made up so don't bother me with the facts.

And BTW. inferred statements from reading between the lines are usually the most flawed and are more reflective of the attitude of the person drawing the inference than the person accused of inferring.

And round and round she goes and where she stops nobody knows. I understand from Nostrodamus and a number of others, the year 2012 is a good year. Or bad, depending on your position. One thing for sure, on which I believe you are both in agreement___

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Matthew 10:16 KJV

I have to admit, it is more difficult for me to maintain dovelike qualities than to exercise the heart of a wolf. Which is the reason the song, "Learning to Lean", has a strong appeal to me.

"Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work." John 4:34 NKJV

Regards!

[Bravus]

I'm very happy to agree to disagree, Bob, and even to apologise if I misread or misunderstood your intentions. I'm pleased that you have pointed us to all those Scriptures, and I'm also pleased that Graeme has pointed us to some other Scriptures.

[jasd]

QR frame:

Am I right or wrong in noting that the Biblical prophet does not necessarily prophesy: rather, one who engages in

"public interpretation of Scripture; preaching; exhortation or instruction" -Webster's (Some include those studying in Seminaries - as prophets. I suppose a Pastoral minister might be thought a Prophet, also.)

is, Biblically, a prophet, yes?

I recall Leslie Harding stating in his tapes that there are three different functions which identify the Prophet.

[Robert]

I'm pleased that you have pointed us to all those Scriptures, and I'm also pleased that Graeme has pointed us to some other Scriptures.

Yes, and all these quotes must be examined within its original context taking time and place into consideration. Otherwise you can make the Bible say, "Here, drink some of this delicious Kool aid!"

[Woody]

Quote:

"We shall encounter false claims, false prophets will arise, there will be false dreams and false visions, but preach the Word; be not drawn away from the voice of God in His Word." --2SM 49 (1894).

[LifeHiscost]

Yes, and all these quotes must be examined within its original context taking time and place into consideration. Otherwise you can make the Bible say, "Here, drink some of this delicious Kool aid!"

"But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren.

And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ." Matthew 23:8,9 NKJV

"It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me."John 6:45 NKJV

"Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed,rightly dividing the word of truth ."2 Timothy 2:15 NKJV underlined mine LHC

Regards!

[BobRyan]

I'm very happy to agree to disagree,

[BobRyan]

Quote:

"We shall encounter false claims, false prophets will arise, there will be false dreams and false visions, but preach the Word; be not drawn away from the voice of God in His Word." --2SM 49 (1894).

[Bravus]

Sorry, 'ignore all prophets' is exactly as much of a distortion of the actual attitude displayed as you claim 'accept all prophets' to be. 'Test the spirits' were almost the first words said. Testing is about finding the true and rejecting the false.

[BobRyan]

Well speaking of "getting more facts" into the discussion and "less fiction" - let's simply quote the post below (again) and see if the "ignore them all" (for prophets beyond the Bible) argument was made in real life.

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We have all we need in the Bible and the Bible alone.

[Woody]

Hey ... is this a "I give you one Ellen White quote" and "You give me five more". Kinda like a gottcha?

Sorry. I ain't goin' ta play that game.