Why does the subject of "agape" generate so little interest?

[Robert]

If you mention the Sabbath, flesh foods and/or Ellen White, lots of folks start posting, but if you mention "agape" it gets real quite. I wonder why? Is it because it shows our failure to measure up to the spirit of God's law?

Let's see how many posts this generates....

Rob

[Key Guy]

Agape, true selfless, love encompasses everything in a Christian's life. That's the goal.

So, where do we start?

[Woody]

We all need the blood. That is where we start.

[Robert]

Agape, true selfless, love encompasses everything in a Christian's life. That's the goal.

So, where do we start?

You tell me.

[Bravus]

I guess the other thing is that a range of possible positions exists on those other topics, which allows discussion. But it's hard to imagine any Christian arguing 'agape is a bad thing' or 'agape is over-rated'. So pretty much all that can be said is 'agape is a good thing, to which we should all aspire through God's indwelling spirit, but of which we all fall short'. Once that has been said, what more is there to say on the subject?

[Gerr]

Just tagging on.

Perhaps rather than talking about agape, let's practice it.

[phkrause]

Because most of us don't know as much about agape as we do, or at least think we know of the other's. My thoughts

pk

[Dottie]

I think that "agape" is a word that is not used as much as it was a few years ago simply because it was trendy at the time. Not that what is included in its definition is out of date, but that we tend to discuss different subjects as times change.

The love of God has not changed, only our ways of discussing it.

[phkrause]

I believe its one of those things that we as humans will never achieve. At least that's my thought, and maybe never, should be probable instead. Because nothing is impossible with the Lord.

pk

[Bravus]

It's an ideal, which is something we always strive toward but never reach. If we could reach it would could stop and become complacent. There is always more scope to love others.

[GreatLakesGramma]

I guess the other thing is that a range of possible positions exists on those other topics, which allows discussion. But it's hard to imagine any Christian arguing 'agape is a bad thing' or 'agape is over-rated'. So pretty much all that can be said is 'agape is a good thing, to which we should all aspire through God's indwelling spirit, but of which we all fall short'. Once that has been said, what more is there to say on the subject?

[Robert]

I believe its one of those things that we as humans will never achieve.

1 Cor 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face.

Remember that the subject in this chapter is "agape". God and "agape" are interchangeable as in "God is agape".

What then is Paul's thought in verse 12? Perhaps that we can't fully understand "God/agape" because we see Him/it as a poor reflection in a mirror. We can't fully understand Him/it this side of eternity for it is foreign to our human love. That's why Paul end sverse 12 with "then we shall see [Him/it] face to face."

My thoughts,

Rob

[Robert]

It's an ideal, which is something we always strive toward but never reach.

I tend to agree because of Paul's statement in Romans 3:23

"For all have sinned [past tense, see Romans 5:12] and fall short of the glory of God." [present continuous tense, see 1 John 1:8; Ex 33:18,19]

[Woody]

Yes Rob. But some here object when I say that I will sin till the day I die. However it is the truth. Not that I want to. And not that God doesn't have the power to give me victory. But, I don't let Him IN.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Just tagging on.

Perhaps rather than talking about agape, let's practice it.

Amen to that!

That's fine, but it isn't easily done living in this world dominated by self-interest. For example, look at the following:

Luke 6:29 If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love [agape] your enemies, [how?] do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

[Robert]

Yes Rob. But some here object when I say that I will sin till the day I die. However it is the truth. Not that I want to. And not that God doesn't have the power to give me victory. But, I don't let Him IN.

I think it's possible for the last generation of Christians, who go through the time of Jacob's trouble, to have fully understood God's agape love through the restoration of the gospel. That group is called the 144,000.

But, and forever keep this in mind, this experience is not what saves them instead it proves the power of the gospel.

Anyway, my 2 cents. I think I'm up to 6 cents now.... teehe

[Planey]

In general I do not speak Greek.

While I realise that there are at least three words in Greek which all refer to some kind of love, when I am talking in English to someone I will invariably use the word "love".

So why cannot we, here on CA, use the same word?

Graeme

[Gail]

Here's a twist:

Today I learned that women are never entreated in the New Testament to "agape" their husbands. The phileo word is used in Ephesians 5.

On the other hand, men ARE entreated to "agape" their wives.

Why? Because the Biblical model is for the man to love the woman as Christ loves the church, and the woman to be his support.

[Bravus]

Planey, in English we only have one word to cover my love for steak, my love for you and my love for my wife. We use the Greek terms to provide us with some finer distinctions...

[Neil D]

I have a question for you all......

Why is "agape" something that you must DO? When we first learn that Christ loved us, we RECIEVE the 'agape'. We never do agape....When men agape thier wives like Jesus agapes the church, it is not in the doing, but the recieving the love that causes men to do.....

...just a thought, ladies and gents...

[Robert]

I will invariably use the word "love".

"The English language, like most modern languages, has only one word for love. This makes it very difficult when reading our English Bibles to distinquish between human concepts of love, all of which are polluted with self-love, and God’s love. In Scripture, God’s love (agape) completely contradicts human love (phileo) so that the two cannot be compared but only contrasted."

Read me!

[Robert]

Here's a twist:

Today I learned that women are never entreated in the New Testament to "agape" their husbands. The phileo word is used in Ephesians 5.

On the other hand, men ARE entreated to "agape" their wives.

Why? Because the Biblical model is for the man to love the woman as Christ loves the church, and the woman to be his support.

Yeah, but...

Hmmm? Human love is "phileo". Maybe that's why the ex-wife and I are divorced?

Again, "Human love, at its very best is self-seeking. We are by nature egocentric and therefore everything we do and think, in and of ourselves, is polluted with self-love or selfishness. Hence man’s love is always trying to ascend, whether it be socially, politically, academically, materially, economically, or even religiously; we are all slaves to our “own way” [isaiah 53:6; Philippians 2:21]....Consequently all of us, without exception, are coming short of God’s glory or agape love [Romans 3:23]."

Rob

[Robert]

Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face.

In keeping with the context of these posts I would like to look at EGW's description of love in heaven. You've seen it before, but I think its worth exploring again:

"In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure; but all, from pure, genuine love [agape?], will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132]

Hmmm, "None will think of self"? Is this motive in action? Is there anything that I do, of myself, that is free from a selfish motive?

Now I'm not saying that God doesn't do things through me as I "walk in the Spirit" (however that's done), but come to think of it I can't think of one thing that I've done (again, "of myself") that hasn't been for self-centered motives. I actually think of myself a lot throughout the day. I go to work, why? To make money so that I can have material things and to help my own out.

Well, "in heaven" this type of love will not exist. In fact, the way I understand it, Lucifer was never allowed to remain in heaven and develop his brand of love. So there'll be no human love, which is polluted with "self", in heaven.

So then everything we do in heaven will be from "agape". There will be no self-interest, no self-love, no selfish ambition just self-renouncing love.

Again, more of my thoughts....

Rob

[Planey]

I know all about the three Greek words etc etc etc

But in English we determine what type of love we are referring to by context.

I don't think my wife would have gotten confused if I told her at meal time "I love this steak" then later told her "I love you".

Similarly the English language actually has a word "agape" which is used for something wide open, such as a mouth, door, etc

Now while the word might be appropriate to talk metaphorically about the mouths of some posters on CA, being perpetually agape, I don't think that is what Robert intended this thread to be about.

But I could be wrong...

Graeme

[phkrause]

Not sure that's exactly correct Redwood. I think its the way you phrase it, "I willfully sin". Now I'm not saying that we don't sometimes willfully sin. I know I have, but I ask God for forgiveness, and than I wonder why he still forgives, its just amazing to me. I believe we will sin till the Lord comes, but not on purpose or premeditated (willfully sinning), at least that's the way I see it when someone says I willfully sin. Not sure that when you say it that way that that is what you mean. I know that God knows your heart better than the rest of us.

pk