Moderators John317 Posted June 12, 2009 Moderators Posted June 12, 2009 Quote: JOHN3:17--- 2) It teaches that most of the book of Revelation is not relevant to Christians prior to the Rapture. Therefore these believers in the rapture are not benefited by the instructions and warnings in Revelation for those living just before the Second Coming of Christ. These warnings include the warning against receiving the "mark of the beast" and the seven last plagues. It teaches that the book of Revelation is relevant--the whole book is relevant to ALL Christians and to the world prior to the Rapture. Please explain in what way you believe it is relevant? What part of the prophecy of Revelation do you believe has happened already? I understand from reading books by believers in the Rapture theory that most if not all dispensationalists, such as Hal Lindsay and Tim LaHaye, believe that Rev. 4: 1 ends the part of Revelation dealing with the church-age. They believe that everything after Rev. 4: 2 deals with what happens after the rapture. Is this what you believe? In other words, do you believe that some parts of Rev. 13 and 14 have been fulfilled already and that we can look forward to these chapters to be fulfilled BEFORE the "rapture" of the church? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted June 12, 2009 Moderators Posted June 12, 2009 Quote: JOHN3:17-- 3) It causes people to believe that they will be taken out of this world before Christ returns and before the events leading up to Christ's return. This means that those who believe in the Rapture cannot prepare in the way that God intends for them to prepare for the Second Coming. The book of Revelation shows that part of this preparation is coming into harmony with God's moral law through the power of His indwelling Spirit. Jesus meets His believers in the air when we are Raptured--(Caught Up), and seven years later we will return with Jesus in His Return to a cleansed earth to set up His 1000yrs reign on earth, oh let us praise God for this glorious event. We don't believe in the Rapture, we believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, and we look forward to the Rapture, when we will be "Caught Up" to Himself and spend from that moment onwards in His wonderful and glorious presence. Please explain how you believe God wants us to prepare for "the Rapture"? Could you please direct you response to the sentence: "The book of Revelation shows that part of this preparation is coming into harmony with God's moral law through the power of His indwelling Spirit." Do you believe that the church will have to deal with the events described in Rev. 13: 11-17 and 14: 9, BEFORE the "rapture"? Secondly, could you please tell me who you believe "Babylon" is (Rev. 14: 8)? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted June 12, 2009 Moderators Posted June 12, 2009 Quote: JOHN3:17--- 4) It means that when the events predicted in the book of Revelation occur, those who have believed in the Rapture will believe that God left them "behind" to face death at the hands of the antichrist. This will have the effect of shaking their faith and causing great spiritual and doctrinal confusion, a loss of trust in God and in the Scriptures. Yes, very true, that is why we need to make the decision right now to put our trust and faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and not in doctrinal matters such as the Rapture, but we the believers in Jesus have something glorious to look forward to, we get to miss the great tribulation, but we still need to be careful because Satan also believes in Jesus and trembles, so we can't just be believers, or spectators, but we must choose a side--is it with Jesus or Satan--please decide!!! It would be terrible for you to be LEFT BEHIND and to be put through the entire of point 4 above. I agree that we have to do more than have a belief that Jesus exists. This is the kind of belief that Satan and the fallen angles have. They don't have trust in Jesus for salvation. This genuine kind of trust brings us to repentance and true faith, which results in obedience. What if Christians do NOT miss the great tribulation? Would this cause you to lose faith in God? Would you question God's justice and mercy if He allowed the church to go through the tribulation? I'd be interested to know your reaction if you found yourself living during the time when the antichrist is "reigning." Would you think, "Oh how terrible! How awful that I must go through the tribulation!"? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BobRyan Posted June 12, 2009 Posted June 12, 2009 Matt 24 "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days... He shall gather His elect". in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Moderators John317 Posted June 12, 2009 Moderators Posted June 12, 2009 Quote: JOHN3:17-- 5) Finally, not knowing how Christ returns and believing in the secret Rapture will leave people vulnerable to Satan's deceptions as he deceives people into accepting him when he impersonates Christ. Well, we are not believing in a secret Rapture but a very loud Rapture--you could call "The Big Bang Rapture"--but we don't believe in it--we believe in Jesus and have our hope in Him alone and have faith that when the Rapture does come He will change up incorruptible and give us brand new immortal bodies and take us up to heaven with Himself. But the people who are LEFT BEHIND will have a great delusion to believe the lie of the Anti-Christ--Satan's deceptions as he deceives people into accepting him instead of Christ. Could you please respond to the reason given in #5 as to why belief in the "Rapture" could be dangerous? I'm not sure what you mean you don't believe in the Rapture but you believe in Jesus. I think I know but am not sure. I believe in the Second Coming. But of course I believe in it because Jesus taught it and He inspired His disciples and the Apostle Paul to write about it. We are in complete agreement that at the resurrection, we will receive brand new immortal bodies and taken to heaven to be with Him. So we can both praise God for this glorious, wonderful promise!!! Didn't God allow His people to go through tribulations in the past? Didn't God allow Jesus go through terrible suffering and testing? What about Job? Why did God allow His people to go through these times of testing? Why do you believe God will take His church out of the world before the tribulation? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BobRyan Posted June 12, 2009 Posted June 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGramma TB, it was not Ellen White who came up with the Adventist view of the second coming. That was already firmly established before she ever had a single vision, as a result of many years of careful study by William Miller. The one significant error that Miller made was brought to light in a vision, but not to Ellen White, while the rest of Miller's conclusions were confirmed by the same vision. Mrs. White didn't have any visions until later. Ok, But I don't have a problem with Ellen G White's view of the End Times, I think it is awesome, I do understand that it was around before her time by William Miller, but I am questioning their authenticity!!! How do we know what they presented, (William Miller) presented to the sda church is biblical truth, I am questioning their authenticity, sorry Catherine, but, when I read the Bible and study it using sola scripture, at first I can see the sda point of view of the End Times, and then when I go deeper, I can see things that the sda church can't see, the Rapture, seven years tribulation, second coming of Christ with the saints, ruling and reigning on a Cleansed Earth for a thousand years, it could be because I was either brought up with this version of the End Times or I find it to be more biblically based. #1. The "unique" aspect of William Miller's teaching - so new and so opposed by the other churches - is that he was Pre-Millennial. And this was also the major complaint that they had about the Seventh-day Adventist church that came along later following Miller's same timeline. #2. The "BIBLE" model does not support the 7 year tribulation idea of chopping up the 70 week timeline in Daniel 9 and slicing out 1 week -- with an undefined gap of years inserted into the timeline "just because". Rather the "Bible" model is as we see in Dan 9:1-3 with Jeremiah's 70 year timeline -- so with Dan 9 and the 70 week timeline. All timelines contiguous in the Bible. Slicing them up - and tossing pieces all over history with undefined gaps inserted - is not Biblical at all. Inventive, creative, imaginative -- but not Biblical. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Moderators John317 Posted June 12, 2009 Moderators Posted June 12, 2009 Matt 24 "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days... He shall gather His elect". The early Adventists, i.e., Millerites, understood this "tribulation" to be a reference to the persecutions that took place from about 500 to 1798. But they also understood that it would be fulfilled in stages. The first fulfillment was at the destruction of Jerusalem, which was a preview of the later tribulations, including the tribulation that will take place just before the Second Coming of Christ. But in any case, as you point out here, the Second Coming of Christ will occur AFTER the tribulation, not before it. There is no indication that there will be people suffering persecution AFTER the Second Coming or after the resurrection of the righteous. If there is, I would love to have it pointed out to me. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted June 12, 2009 Moderators Posted June 12, 2009 #1. The "unique" aspect of William Miller's teaching - so new and so opposed by the other churches - is that he was Pre-Millennial. And this was also the major complaint that they had about the Seventh-day Adventist church that came along later following Miller's same timeline. But Miller was preaching before the concept of the Rapture as the Dispensationalist teach it was formulated. Most of the mainline Christians churches believed as Miller did, that the Second Coming would be visible and literal. On the manner of Christ's return, he was in agreement with virtually all of the protestant Reformers. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism Quote: #2. The "BIBLE" model does not support the 7 year tribulation idea of chopping up the 70 week timeline in Daniel 9 and slicing out 1 week .... I completely agree with you. And that idea was fairly late in coming into the Christian church. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
True-believer Posted June 12, 2009 Author Posted June 12, 2009 The Rapture is a publication of The Rapture Force of Gauteng, South Africa. The editor is Ms Golda Chimere-Dan. Her husband, Prof. D. Chimere-Dan, heads up the Chimere-Dan Ministries. The following are excerpts from the first edition of The Rapture magazine (various Scriptures have been quoted from The Living Bible): .... We will propagate the message of the rapture and harvest souls for the kingdom of God in the process. You are welcome to join our initiatives wherever you are by telling someone that Jesus is coming very soon. People should give their lives to Jesus, or regret not doing so sooner rather than later. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
TreeOfLife Posted June 12, 2009 Posted June 12, 2009 What Did Yeshua Teach Re These Things?... * How Do I Reckon Myself? * Who Do I Identify With? * Who Am I? * In Whose Eyes Am I Mirroring Myself? 1. Am I Not Afraid to Face God One to One as Moses Did? - Cf. Deuteronomy 5:3-5. 2. Will I be One Among the Bundles to Be Burnt? - Cf. Matthew 13:30. 1. In the Eyes of God, OR in the Eyes of Men? - Cf. Genesis 6:8 in Hebrew. Originally Posted By: TreeOfLife Gen 6:8 TLT And Noah perceived his own mirror image in the eyes of Yahweh. Gen 6:8 KJV But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Do I dare to stand alone? Alone with none but me and my Father? Do I care to study and learn the details of the Holy Scriptures for my self? Am I a head or a tail? A leader or a follower? Am I serving fresh food from the dining table at the wedding of Christ to His People, or am I serving teachings that have already served their purposes of growth and which are now nothing but excrement? Quote http://adamoh.org
there buster Posted June 12, 2009 Posted June 12, 2009 Luke 17:34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."[d] 37"Where, Lord?" they asked. He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather." Where, Lord, is clearly "where will they be taken?" since the whereabouts of those who are left is, well, where they were. And since I have no desire to be either a vulture or a dead body, I prefer to remain. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
Moderators John317 Posted June 12, 2009 Moderators Posted June 12, 2009 Luke 17:34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."[d] 37"Where, Lord?" they asked. He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather." Where, Lord, is clearly "where will they be taken?" since the whereabouts of those who are left is, well, where they were. And since I have no desire to be either a vulture or a dead body, I prefer to remain. Compare Rev. 19: 11-18. It shows that after Christ returns, those who are not taken to be with Jesus are left dead on the earth. The birds are then invited to eat the dead at what the Bible describes as "the supper of the great God." If you read 1 The. 4: 13-18, it makes it clear that those who are saved go with the Lord, just like He promised in John 14: 3. On the other hand, 2 Thess. 1: 7-10 and 2: 8 show that the wicked are slain by the brightness of Christ's glory when He returns and are left dead on the surface of the earth. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted June 12, 2009 Moderators Posted June 12, 2009 Dear John 3:17 Dear Seventh-day Adventist Brethren and Sisters What is the reality of “the Second Coming of Christ?” What is the reality of “the Rapture?” These are important questions, aren't they? Isn't that why we are calling ourselves 'Adventists?' Or, has the name 'Adventist' become no more than an appellation while having lost most or all of its real meaning? Could it be that we are, each of us in somewhat unique ways, allowing ourselves to be blinded by more or less flawed expectations of what the second coming of Christ really is? I believe in a literal Second Coming like the Bible describes in Matt. 24: 30, 31; 1 Thess. 4: 13-18; Titus 2: 13; Hebrews 9: 28. Are we in the same book and on the same page of that book? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
nuff sed Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 We are not on the same page if we believe in "The Rapture",.... The righteous will be raptured at the Second Coming but not before as most'rapture believers' believe. Quote
Members phkrause Posted June 13, 2009 Members Posted June 13, 2009 Good point, gladussee. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
there buster Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Quote: Compare Rev. 19: 11-18. It shows that after Christ returns, those who are not taken to be with Jesus are left dead on the earth. The birds are then invited to eat the dead at what the Bible describes as "the supper of the great God." If you read 1 The. 4: 13-18, it makes it clear that those who are saved go with the Lord, just like He promised in John 14: 3. On the other hand, 2 Thess. 1: 7-10 and 2: 8 show that the wicked are slain by the brightness of Christ's glory when He returns and are left dead on the surface of the earth. I understand what you're saying. Exegetically it is very weak, because, sadly, however, there is no textual link between the texts you cite and Luke 17. By contrast, Luke 17 is linked to Matt 24, because they are parallel passages. And Luke 17 and Matt 24 are the foundational texts for the doctrine of the Rapture. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
TreeOfLife Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Comparing Notes While Walking the Walk... Originally Posted By: TreeOfLife Dear John 3:17 Dear Seventh-day Adventist Brethren and Sisters What is the reality of “the Second Coming of Christ?” What is the reality of “the Rapture?” These are important questions, aren't they? Isn't that why we are calling ourselves 'Adventists?' Or, has the name 'Adventist' become no more than an appellation while having lost most or all of its real meaning? Could it be that we are, each of us in somewhat unique ways, allowing ourselves to be blinded by more or less flawed expectations of what the second coming of Christ really is? I believe in a literal Second Coming like the Bible describes in Matt. 24: 30, 31; 1 Thess. 4: 13-18; Titus 2: 13; Hebrews 9: 28. Are we in the same book and on the same page of that book? Quote http://adamoh.org
True-believer Posted June 16, 2009 Author Posted June 16, 2009 Hi all, thanks for your comments and posts above... Why do I know the Rapture will occur? Because the Bible says so... let me explain... I don't believe in the Rapture, instead I believe and put my trust, hope, faith wholly in Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. What do I mean when I say that I don't believe in the Rapture, well I mean what it says, I don't believe in the Rapture--only in Jesus Christ I believe in. Even though I don't believe in the Rapture, I still know for a fact that it will occur. Remembering believing and knowing are two different words... I believe in Jesus and I look forward to the soon to be Rapture of the True Believers. Why do I know from the Bible that the Rapture will happen? Theres been lots of talk lately about 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18--meant to be the only Rapture (Caught Up) Scripture Reference--well, thats not the only one, theres references all over the Bible. 1 Thess. 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which has no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not precede them which are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall raise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be Caught Up (Raptured) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Its going to be a loud and vigourously event, and all truebelievers in Jesus will hear both dead and alive. 1 Thess. 3:11-13 says: Now God Himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you. And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you: To the end He may stablish your hearts unblamable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with ALL HIS SAINTS. Two different events. The first one is the Rapture of the saints--both dead and alive meet the Lord in the air. The second one is Jesus returning to earth with the saints to estabish His Kingdom on earth for a thousands years. Any comments? Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted June 16, 2009 Author Posted June 16, 2009 Hi all, thanks for your comments and posts above...Why do I know the Rapture will occur? Because the Bible says so... let me explain... I don't believe in the Rapture, instead I believe and put my trust, hope, faith wholly in Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. What do I mean when I say that I don't believe in the Rapture, well I mean what it says, I don't believe in the Rapture--only in Jesus Christ I believe in. Even though I don't believe in the Rapture, I still know for a fact that it will occur. Remembering believing and knowing are two different words... I believe in Jesus and I look forward to the soon to be Rapture of the True Believers. Why do I know from the Bible that the Rapture will happen? Theres been lots of talk lately about 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18--meant to be the only Rapture (Caught Up) Scripture Reference--well, thats not the only one, theres references all over the Bible. 1 Thess. 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which has no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not precede them which are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall raise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be Caught Up (Raptured) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Its going to be a loud and vigourously event, and all truebelievers in Jesus will hear both dead and alive. 1 Thess. 3:11-13 says: Now God Himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you. And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you: To the end He may stablish your hearts unblamable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with ALL HIS SAINTS. Two different events. The first one is the Rapture of the saints--both dead and alive meet the Lord in the air. The second one is Jesus returning to earth with the saints to estabish His Kingdom on earth for a thousands years. Any comments? The Rapture occurs and takes all saints--living and dead, and then seven years later we return with Jesus to a cleansed earth to rule and reign with Him for a thousand years. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Planey Posted June 16, 2009 Posted June 16, 2009 Take this to the theological forum where I'm sure it will attract many learned answers which may (or may not) convict you of your mistaken ways. Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Moderators Bravus Posted June 16, 2009 Moderators Posted June 16, 2009 OK, so I know SDA theology has the One Truth and is always right. But indulge me in a couple of 'what ifs?', oh forum friends: 1. What if the Rapture did happen, and you suddenly and instantaneously found yourself in heaven. Would you demand to be put back and tell God he'd got it wrong? ;-) 2. What if you *were* Left Behind? A whole lot of Christians, millions of them, all over the world, suddenly vanished in a moment. What then? Quote Truth is important
Ellen Posted June 16, 2009 Posted June 16, 2009 I would cross that bridge when I come to it - however, we have the "Guide book" and know the end of our earthly sojourn Quote
todd_vetter Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 How can one claim to know the end of their journey when they don't even know the present? They call the book thier guide yet The Lord said He is living and that he is the Shepherd. Page 35 illustrates why it's important to put trust in a living God alone who had a son born according to the flesh. http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf Quote Todd M. Vetter
Moderators John317 Posted June 17, 2009 Moderators Posted June 17, 2009 Quote: Compare Rev. 19: 11-18. It shows that after Christ returns, those who are not taken to be with Jesus are left dead on the earth. The birds are then invited to eat the dead at what the Bible describes as "the supper of the great God." If you read 1 The. 4: 13-18, it makes it clear that those who are saved go with the Lord, just like He promised in John 14: 3. On the other hand, 2 Thess. 1: 7-10 and 2: 8 show that the wicked are slain by the brightness of Christ's glory when He returns and are left dead on the surface of the earth. I understand what you're saying. Exegetically it is very weak, because, sadly, however, there is no textual link between the texts you cite and Luke 17. By contrast, Luke 17 is linked to Matt 24, because they are parallel passages. And Luke 17 and Matt 24 are the foundational texts for the doctrine of the Rapture. Show me in your words how you believe those chapters teach the Rapture. Give me a good Bible study. Thanks. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted June 17, 2009 Moderators Posted June 17, 2009 1 Thess. 3:11-13 says: Now God Himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you. And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you: To the end He may stablish your hearts unblamable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with ALL HIS SAINTS. Two different events. The first one is the Rapture of the saints--both dead and alive meet the Lord in the air. The second one is Jesus returning to earth with the saints to estabish His Kingdom on earth for a thousands years. Any comments? Yes, the word "saints" may also be translated "holy ones." See Deut. 33: 2. Compare Jude 14. "The holy ones" who come with Christ are His angels, as He says plainly in Matt. 24: 31; Matt. 25: 31; Mark 13: 26, 27. Matt. 24: 31 seems very much like a parallel passage with 1 Thess. 4: 16. So I see no reason to separate the events being in described in 1 Thess. 3: 11-13; 4: 13-18 and 1 Thess. 5: 23. In all three instances, the event is called "the coming of the Lord." It appears to me to be the same event described in 1 Tim. 6: 14; 2 Thess. 1: 7,8; 2: 8; 2 Tim. 1: 18; 4: 1; Titus 2: 13; Hebrews 9: 28; 1 Peter 5: 4; 2 Peter 3: 4, 9-13; Jude 14, 15; Rev. 14: 14-19; Rev. 16: 15; Rev. 19: 11-18; 22: 7, 12, 20. Explain the system by which you distinguish between these verses. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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