Bible errancey

[todd_vetter]

I would love to have people review the information at this link and comment on it. If the information at this link is illustrated correctly and factually it exposes the fulfillment of a great many prophecies, clears up many denominational speculations that have existed in history passed down traditionally from Christian forefathers. Basically if the overall presentation of information is correct and the information on page 35 is truely ancient, then the entire Christian world regardless of denomination is a child of Catholism build on a catholic foundation.

You have to see the information to even comprehend why this is important to everyone living today.

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

Please feel free to comment. This covers every verse of testimony on this topic as well as historical references deemed by Rome as heresey.. yet if we uproot what we perceive as tares.. we uproot the wheat also.

[oldsailor29]

No question in my mind, the Bible has always contained errors. prophets have always believed they were living in the end times. And all prophecy is conditional, and can be fulfilled as often as the conditions are there. And the only reliable method of interpretation is the historical critical method.

[Gerr]

Quote:

the Jehovah Witnesses came out of the S.D.A. church

dgrimm60

I could be wrong, but I don't think Russell or any of their founders were ever SDAs.

[Gerr]

What errors? Would you stake 1/7th of your time, 1/10th of your income, and your life on a book that has as much errors as you seem to indicate?

[oldsailor29]

What errors? Would you stake 1/7th of your time, 1/10th of your income, and your life on a book that has as much errors as you seem to indicate?

I don't have to worry about the errors. I only live by what Jesus said. You know, the red letter text of the NT? I was an avid student of the rest. How else would I know about the errors? But I am born anew. I am a new bottle which accepts only the new wine of the teachings of Jesus. His teachings cannot be used to patch up the old. The old suit must be discarded, and the new wedding garment must be accepted. His teachings take up only a very narrow portion of the Bible, and He leads us straight to the Holy City. His way is the straight and narrow way.

So, we can discuss he meaning and interpretations of various Bible verses, but all except what Jesus said is basically irrelevant.

[Kevin H]

What errors? Would you stake 1/7th of your time, 1/10th of your income, and your life on a book that has as much errors as you seem to indicate?

Why should I dedicate my entire life to someone who got thursty, hungry, could be tempted, could be tired enough to fall asleep in a boat durring a bad storm? There was divine and human in Jesus, and even more so in the Bible.

The errors in the Bible teach us that God is willing to work with us where we are. The Errors in the Bible tell us that we can relax and just study the Bible and learn from it instead of the pain-taking ways we tapdance over it to try to make it perfect. The errors in the Bible teach us that God is willing to work with us even if we don't see eye to eye. The errors in the Bible teach us that God does not want his people to be all uniformed cookiecutter copies of each others. The errors in the Bible teach what God things is really important and the issues where he is not freeking out over if we don't get exactly perfect. The errors of the Bible teach us different aspects of God that cannot be contained by one view. The errors in the Bible are like facits on a jewel making it even more brilliant.

Yes, I gladly will stake 1/7th of my time and 1/10 of my income and my life on a book who teaches me about this loving God. And yes, even the errors teach me lessons about this God and makes God even more beautiful.

I'm sorry that you are looking for a god who wants you to stand in uniform and march in lock step with the rest of his group, and who gets into a tizzy if everything is not exactly perfect according to the Greek view of perfection. (Look up Bowman's "Hebrew Thought compaired to Greek" the very Hebrew view of perfection is much more flexable than the Greek view.

[Kevin H]

Old Sailer, I like a lot of what you said, but I am the most uncomfortable with " but all except what Jesus said is basically irrelevant" and I believe that the historical critical method is only a tool like a drill. It is useful but would be more useful if not be the only tool in your toolbox.

Besides, even the red letters are the memory of the disciples of what Jesus said.

[Kevin H]

Quote:

the Jehovah Witnesses came out of the S.D.A. church

dgrimm60

I could be wrong, but I don't think Russell or any of their founders were ever SDAs.

You are correct Gerry, the Jehovah's Witnesses came out of our sister church, the Advent Christians. Both the Advent Christians and Seventh-day Adventists came from the Advent movement of the 1700s (the most famous pre-millerite Adventist was Sir. Issac Newton) which was popularized by William Miller especially with his application of Adventist principles and his interpetation of Daniel 8:14. After 1844 the two major groups who stayed faithful to Miller became the Seventh-day Adventists and Advent Christian. Other former Millerites, who stated out saying that Jesus did come to them secretly and made them perfect later latched on to the Secret Rapture teachings of John Darby. Jehovah's Witness is a mixture of Advent Christian and Darbyism with some of their own ideas.

But Seventh-day Adventists came from Millerism which came from the Advent movement of the 1700's which came out of protestantism which came from Cathololism, especially from the Advent version of Catholism that traces back to the visions of Jeochoam of Floir, and I've heard but have not seen the link, was passed down especially through St. Francis of Assici and the Franciscan munks. Some of our arguments with critics of our church are no more than the retelling of the arguments between the Augustinian munks and the Franciscan munks.

[Parade Orange]

Old Sailor! Hi!

You stated that everything else outside of JESUS WORDS(in the beautiful colour of matte red lipstick that Marilyn Monroe wore) is irrelevent!

Many of my gay christian friends who go to the ProGay churches say the exact same thing.

Jesus and the Ten Commandments say nothing about Homosexuality!

WOOOO... HOOOOOOOOOOO!

Thanku for affirming the gay bible studies i attended when i lived in the San Francisco area!

[oldsailor29]

Old Sailor! Hi!

You stated that everything else outside of JESUS WORDS(in the beautiful colour of matte red lipstick that Marilyn Monroe wore) is irrelevent!

Many of my gay christian friends who go to the ProGay churches say the exact same thing.

Jesus and the Ten Commandments say nothing about Homosexuality!

WOOOO... HOOOOOOOOOOO!

Thanku for affirming the gay bible studies i attended when i lived in the San Francisco area!

What is there to say? Some people believe there will be no sexuality of any type in Heaven and the new earth. I don't know about that, but if there is, I hope to remain hetero.

I have been wondering why I get so much resistance to my message of the teachings of Jesus alone. That could explain part of it. The homophobes have to hang on to the warnings about the Canaanites and everything they did being an abomination. I had not thought of that before.

Thank you Parade Orange for the enlightenment.

[todd_vetter]

Any denomination bount to the Catholic NT are a daughter of babylon and her mysteries.

If you take time to see the information presented at this link and don't stop short of page 35 you will see why all Christians living today are counted among the children of Rome.

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

This includes SDA's, Morons, and jehovah witnesses who all claim that christ did not come according to the flesh. Again you will need to see page 35 to understand why they qualify

[Gail]

This includes SDA's, Morons, and jehovah witnesses who all claim that christ did not come according to the flesh.

SDAs claim that? Where did you learn that?

I would like you to fully identify yourself and why you are here, TRUTHFULLY, please.

[Gerr]

If you read my post carefully, I don't think I even implied that there are NO errors whatsoever in the Bible. Even EGW accepted that when she said, "it is all possible." As I understand it, what seems to be errors will/would/could not affect our salvation if we followed the truth it teaches. But old sailor's statement seems to imply it's full of errors, that's why I was asking him for clarification.

I have been studying the subject of perfection on and off for decades. Please do not attribute to me that kind of perfection. Perfection in the ultimate sense is not possible for us here. I have my doubts it's even possible for us in the earth made new. Perfection in the ultimate sense, means there is no more room for improvement. Only God has that quality. We will always be improving throughout eternity.

[Gerr]

Thanks Gail, for bringing that up.

Yeah, I would like to know where Todd got that kind of information.

[Gerr]

Quote:

So, we can discuss he meaning and interpretations of various Bible verses, but all except what Jesus said is basically irrelevant.

Sorry, count the rest as irrelevant, and your Jesus has nothing to stand on! He would become irrelevant. No better than any philosopher that walked this earth!

[Parade Orange]

uh oh TODD!

Know ye not u cant imply that The HOLY REMNANT CHURCH are somehow connected to THE UNHOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH!

Now you've done it!

[Robert]

Perfection in the ultimate sense, means there is no more room for improvement. Only God has that quality. We will always be improving throughout eternity.

In knowledge, but not in righteousness. We will be as righteous as God for we will reflect His agape perfectly. Otherwise you have sin in heaven.

[Kevin H]

If you read my post carefully, I don't think I even implied that there are NO errors whatsoever in the Bible. Even EGW accepted that when she said, "it is all possible." As I understand it, what seems to be errors will/would/could not affect our salvation if we followed the truth it teaches. But old sailor's statement seems to imply it's full of errors, that's why I was asking him for clarification.

I have been studying the subject of perfection on and off for decades. Please do not attribute to me that kind of perfection. Perfection in the ultimate sense is not possible for us here. I have my doubts it's even possible for us in the earth made new. Perfection in the ultimate sense, means there is no more room for improvement. Only God has that quality. We will always be improving throughout eternity.

No problem, I really like what you said in this post Gerry!

[oldsailor29]

Quote:

So, we can discuss he meaning and interpretations of various Bible verses, but all except what Jesus said is basically irrelevant.

Sorry, count the rest as irrelevant, and your Jesus has nothing to stand on! He would become irrelevant. No better than any philosopher that walked this earth!

My Jesus is the foundation rock, upon which all else may be built. That which is built on anything else is like the house built on the sand. My Jesus is the one infinite God who stands outside of space and time, and creates space and time. Without Him, none of us would even be, let alone be relevant. Jesus said "All who came before are robbers and thieves." But I understand why some worship the Bible. In order to accept Jesus, one must be born anew.

[oldsailor29]

Old Sailer, I like a lot of what you said, but I am the most uncomfortable with " but all except what Jesus said is basically irrelevant" and I believe that the historical critical method is only a tool like a drill. It is useful but would be more useful if not be the only tool in your toolbox.

Besides, even the red letters are the memory of the disciples of what Jesus said.

It is written, that the Holy Spirit brought the words of Jesus to their minds, so they could remember clearly what Jesus said. I'm looking for the reference.

[Dr. Rich]

John 14;26 "...and the Holy Spirit will cause you to remember everything I have said.."

John 17:20: "...but for those also who believe [my words] in Me through their word..."

John 15:26,27 "...the Spirit of Truth...will bear witness of Me, and YOU WILL bear witness also, because you have been with Me from the beginning."

John 16:13 "...when the Spirit of Truth comes he will guide you into all truth...and he will disclose to you what is to come."

John 16:14 "...he shall take of Mine (the words of Jesus) and shall disclose it to you."

John 16:15 "...and will disclose it to you."

I hope this helps. It clearly proves that the words of Jesus given to us ONLY by His eyewitnesses are to be used to test everything against what anyone else says--including the writers of books in the New Testament who never knew Jesus (Paul, Luke, 1Peter, 2Peter, Hebrews--and no, the desciple Peter did not write 1st and 2nd Peter--for Peter was dead when they were written.

Dr. Rich

[oldsailor29]

John 14;26 "...and the Holy Spirit will cause you to remember everything I have said.."

John 17:20: "...but for those also who believe [my words] in Me through their word..."

John 15:26,27 "...the Spirit of Truth...will bear witness of Me, and YOU WILL bear witness also, because you have been with Me from the beginning."

John 16:13 "...when the Spirit of Truth comes he will guide you into all truth...and he will disclose to you what is to come."

John 16:14 "...he shall take of Mine (the words of Jesus) and shall disclose it to you."

John 16:15 "...and will disclose it to you."

I hope this helps. It clearly proves that the words of Jesus given to us ONLY by His eyewitnesses are to be used to test everything against what anyone else says--including the writers of books in the New Testament who never knew Jesus (Paul, Luke, 1Peter, 2Peter, Hebrews--and no, the desciple Peter did not write 1st and 2nd Peter--for Peter was dead when they were written.

Dr. Rich

Thank you Dr. Rich.    I knew someone would help me out on this.    So I posted that I was looking, then went to get some lab work submitted, had breakfast, and when I returned,   VOILA!    There it was.

[todd_vetter]

Page 35 illustrates with verifiably historic testimony why All christians living today claim Christ did not come according to the flesh. All the information prior to page 35 validates the credibility of all the information shown. It's an objective look at the 4 bible gospels in correlation to a gospel preserved outside of the reach of Rome. Then compared both with prophecy to see what truth is since man is bound to differing testimonies of speculation.

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

You'll find it to be the most complete study on this topic to date. If you want the most recent updates E-mail me at todd_vetter26@yahoo.com for the power point.

Any objective feedback is welcome. I'm looking for other information on the fulfilment of exodus 12. So far I have five different explinations of speculation that have no firm history to back it. I Would love to receive at least 3 more theories in order to make a presentation of why it's important to have the Holy Spirit inside us to know truth from speculation

[todd_vetter]

I would agree that the holy spirit inspired perfection when the apostles told their testimony. But men believe Rome who smash and destroy according to prophecy did not fulfull this prophecy with written works. They can only maintain this if any history of text surfacing that speaks differently can be bad mouthed with enough speculation that no one learns to test it against prophecy.

That is what is special about this study. you can take out all the history and just use the bible and you get 3 days and 3 nights.. the history just backs up the presentation.

Page 28 illustrates from the bible a testimony that was inspired by the Holy spirit and it also illustrates a testimony written in with the pen of ignorance. Both are for the same event and both are in your bible.

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

[todd_vetter]

As Adventists you will greatly appreciate pages 37-42. They illustrate with Ellen white Prophecy and other solid evidence where the Adventist church dove into speculations to support preconcieved ideas that had no solid evidence of truth.

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

Again these are not shared out of spite, malice or challenges to doctrine. I'm sure that if the Lord gave you somthing special to share. You would share it with a humble heart as I am attempting to do.

If any angle of the topic appears to not be covered with out speculation and backed by historical testimony along with Prophecy (testimony of Jesus) as the highest witness. Let me know so that i can fill in any missing pieces.

Thanks and God bless

Todd M. vetter