Bible errancey

[todd_vetter]

If man remains bound to Roman Doctrine they are a daughter of Rome.

Page 35 puts this very plainly.

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

All the pages prior illustrate the legitimacy of the testimony presented on this page.

I think I see the problem now that Christ had when he tried to illustre the most simple of truths and the people rose in anger against him.

I'm here as a humble witness to share historical facts backed by the testimony of jesus. Please take the time to check the credability of the evidence

[todd_vetter]

The information is on page 35 of this study. All pages prior establish the credibility from a historical and prophetically accurate stand point.

This is one that will require time to understand fully because mankind still needs to come out of Babylon.

The information is objectively presented as to not offent but to present accuracy in correlation with real time as defined by God. Time is scripture that can never be broken and will bare witness to God's witness of his son (prophecy). Satan attempting to change God's times and Laws has perverted the perceptions of men with half the truth.

This is illustrated clearly by every page of this study. Please take time to review all information carefully and with a humble heart.

Otherwise you man never learn what it means to build on God instead of a book from Rome.

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

[Gail]

So, according to this we are to look for Satan making himself look like Pope John Paul II, and he will be the Anti-Christ?

[todd_vetter]

Looking for examples of the fulfilment of the first half of exodus 12 where the Lamb (Jesus) was chosen by the people on the tenth day of the first month. I have a presentation of this at this link but i'm interested in what others say is the fulfilment.

The answers will go into a new study illustrating the speculations of men which claim to be truth built on the bible.

Here is the link which illustrates a historical fulfilment of exodus 12 that speaks according to the Law and the testimony.

See pages 7-12

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

[todd_vetter]

That is still to be determined by history as it unfolds. just as amazing facts states the seven heads are seven kingdoms of the world. What is the truth? only time will tell for future events.

The past events are solid if they speak according to what Christ actually spoke.

Christ only spoke one of these two verses (matt 16:21 or Mark 8:31). Once is good seed and one is bad seed sown in the night by God's enemy in the same field. Do you know for sure which one is from God? His people HEAR his voice because he lives within the temple made with out man's hands when the temple is purified.

All these things that I am saying are made clear if you believe the witness that God gave his son. Learn the Law and you can learn about Christ. The Law is pentacost. The Law is mans all. The law is the wisdom to be responsible for our actions. The Law gives the wisdom to repent which is the only way sins are forgiven us.

many make Christ their scape goat and are no better than the men who indulged in slaughter of the Lamb in the hopes of the forgiveness of sin instead of making pure their thoughts and actions.

I hope you can understand these things for even a child can understand them. The child would resist sin to save the life of a creature whome they loved that would have to die if they sinned.

V/R

Todd M. vetter

[todd_vetter]

Today is a great day because the spirit of the Lord has come close to us all!!!

We just have to understand the true Godhead and how it applies to the family. there is so much more to this lesson that Rome threw away.

And one of them said, Master, it is written of old, The Alohim made man in Their own image, male and female created They them. How sayest thou then that God is one? And Jesus said unto them, Verily, I said unto you, In God there is neither male nor female and yet both are one, and God is the Two in One. He is She and She is He. The Alohim—our God—is perfect, Infinite, and One. 3. As in the man, the Father is manifest, and the Mother hidden; so in the woman, the Mother is manifest, and the Father hidden. Therefore shall the name of the Father and the Mother be equally hallowed, for They are the great Powers of God, and the one is not without the other, in the One God. 4. Adore ye God, above you, beneath you, on the right hand, on the left hand before you, behind you, within you, around you. Verily, there is but One God, Who is All in All, and in Whom all things do consist, the Fount of all Life and all Substance, without beginning and without end.5. The things which are seen and pass away are The manifestations of the unseen which are eternal, that from the visible things of Nature ye may reach to the invisible things of the Godhead; and by that which is natural, attain to that which is spiritual.6. Verily, the Alohim created man in the divine image male and female, and all nature is in the Image of God, therefore is God both male and female, not divided, but the Two in One, Undivided and Eternal, by Whom and in Whom are all things, visible and invisible. 7. From the Eternal they flow, to the Eternal they return. The spirit to Spirit, soul to Soul, mind to Mind, sense to Sense, life to Life, form to Form, dust to Dust. 8. In the beginning God willed and there came forth the beloved Son, the divine Love, and the beloved Daughter, the holy Wisdom, equally proceeding from the One Eternal Fount; and of these are the generations of the Spirits of God, the Sons and Daughters of the Eternal.

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/gospel%20of%20holy%2012.pdf

[Gail]

Quote:

and of these are the generations of the Spirits of God, the Sons and Daughters of the Eternal.

Who are the Spirits of God? and what is it that you quoted in the above post?

[todd_vetter]

Your questions tell me you have not searched out completely what has been shared. these questions answer themselves if you walk through the vally of earth history with no fear cause the Lord is with you. learn about your Christian past so that you don't have to fill in the blank pages of history with speculation and lies like "the bible is the word". To make this statement is to make a false God for in your bible it says that the Word is God. Does God live in anything made with mans hands? To speculate this answer is to feed an itchy ear what it wants to hear.

What is being quoted is gospel testimony that Rome thew away. It's from a full lenght gospel that is referenced through out the study shared from the link.

Your bible quotes Christ stating, Man can only live by every word that proceeded from the mouth of God. Rome put in the bible what is there and thew much away. History is revealing that testimony in our day to help us come out of the dark ages of man who have built for many centuries on half the truth. Can you assure yourself and others that the bible contains every word of God? can a book contain the moon, and the trees and all living things that God spoke? These are the living scriptures God wrote. in them you will find Law because nothing exist in perfection with out Law.

This is why the denominations are ever learning and never coming to the truth (God). The Christian world has spiraled into a frenzy of confusion all built on the many differing versions of the book titled the bible. Searching dead letters and ignoring the life that is around them that gives solid testimony. History is alive you juat have to learn to read it. Because mans rejection of history's past and lack of willingness to learn from it, they are doomed to repeat the past until destruction comes. this cycle can only be broken by the wisdom of God to make the right choices. It's always been about choice. your choices in this life define who you are. If you make your choices based on the law and make good choices, your life is defined by the parent of wisdom

The study shared with you both validates what is really there in our 4 bible gospels from Rome and what is really in this monestery text gospel since the testimonies of men differ regarding all the gospels. God's word (prophecy) is a light to the christian tribe of confuision all claiming to be from the source of truth (God). All speaking according to the bible but none speak according to the Law and testimony.

Scripture is all around you in everything God spoke. Learn to read the scripture God spoke to come out of the confusion of Rome. (babylon) at the tower of bable God mixed the languages to confuse the people. did you think satan would not have his counterfit of half truth modeled after God?

Numbers 33:3 defines the High day in 6 versions of the coolection of books called the bible. See this verse in all versions from bible gate way to understand just a simple understanding of what is babylon and why we need to seek truth from living scripture (testimony of God) from a living God!

The bible talks about many who were of the first born. The bible also talks of the only begotten. Someone is telling a lie in your bible for many will be begotten of God when they are born again of spirit!.

Only begotten verses which are only spoken of in John's writings cut you off from your spiritual birth right that you should receive when you walk in the ways of the heavenly parent.

John 1:14 John 1:18 John 3:16 John 3:18 1 John 4:9

These verses allegedly from John as well as Matthew 1 illustrate that Christ did not come according to the flesh, but special sucumstances not in line with all the prophecies concerning these events.

Firstborn verses which illustrate the divinity of man when they walk in the image and wisdom of God.

Romans 8:29 Hebrews 12:23 Colossians 1:18 Colossians 1:15

Revelation 1:5

We are the sons and daughters of the eternal. We just have to stop playing the harolot in our ignorance of half truth and come back to God by being faithful witnesses to God. Our faith to God is determined by how we keep the Law of love.

to break the Law is the only way to be deceived for this is satan goal. Everything else is there to let you know that this is what Christ taught. He is not a scape goat for your sins. He was a lamb who showed us how to take direction from the Shepard because he did nothing of himself that he did not receive from above.

Blessing from our heavenly parent

[oldsailor29]

If we do not believe the Bible was written by divinely inspired writers, then the errancy and inerrancy issues are irrelevant. And I am wondering isn't the book of nature the origin of existentialism, which is the theology of Satan.

[John317]

Scripture is all around you in everything God spoke. Learn to read the scripture God spoke to come out of the confusion of Rome. (babylon) at the tower of bable God mixed the languages to confuse the people. did you think satan would not have his counterfit of half truth modeled after God?

Numbers 33:3 defines the High day in 6 versions of the coolection of books called the bible. See this verse in all versions from bible gate way to understand just a simple understanding of what is babylon and why we need to seek truth from living scripture (testimony of God) from a living God!

The bible talks about many who were of the first born. The bible also talks of the only begotten. Someone is telling a lie in your bible for many will be begotten of God when they are born again of spirit!.

Blessing from our heavenly parent

You message sounds familiar. You and many others today-- even in our own Seventh-day Adventist Church-- are teaching that the Bible is not dependable as God's word and is a mixture of truth and error. That is evidently what you teach.

This reminds me of what Ellen White said-- that just before probation closes, there would be every wind of doctrine, and that everything that could be shaken will be shaken. It's happening now.

I believe we need to rely more and more on the Scriptures and on the writings of Ellen White. God did not give these to us for nothing.

[John317]

As Adventists you will greatly appreciate pages 37-42.

Todd M. vetter

Hi Todd. Yes, I'm Seventh-day Adventist and did read your link and do find it interesting, although I don't agree with some of the chronology.

Are you also SDA, by the way?

[todd_vetter]

it's perfectly relevant if man puts faith in a book and not in God. it's no better than the catholic with a crucifix in hand beliving that it holds power from God.

[todd_vetter]

I studied my way out of SDA due to the speculations in doctrin, many of which are illustrated in the study. I no longer claim a denomination for faith. My faith is to the Law of God for this is mans all.

We are all either wheat or tares so there is no spiritual ethinc berrier other than what God has made. The denominations are mans creations causing men to judge each other with suspicion as if one has a greater light than another when they are all lacking the spirit from with in.

We will know when God is in us. There is a promise that we will do all that Christ did and more. Untill you walk like christ walked, do not stop searching for he is your example.

The bible gospels lost much of that example by the gentile pen of Rome. History is revealing much of what Rome tried to destroy. it's up to you to search out these matters for yourself or you will never know the meaning of the half truth perception of salvation which christ prophecied yet no christian living today applies this to themselves.

[todd_vetter]

Feel free to illustrate the Chronology more correctly with out speculation and with out ignoring any verse of testimony as I have done on 18 and 19. it's easy to do. Simply copy and past Matt, Mark, Luke, John into a word document from Bible gateway. Color each gospel a separate color. then take each line of testimony with out ignoring a single verse and display your Chronology in this manner untill all the lines of testimony are used in the order you percieve as correct.

When finished ask if tradition defined your testimony or if Prophecy (testimony of jesus) to see what your end result is.

it's the only way to use every word with out ignoring verses based on preconcieved perceptions of understanding. if your Chronology when finished differs from what I have illustrated on pages 18-21 I will gladly post the information and put your name to the Chronology to keep the study objective. Truth always stands out on top of Error and speculation.

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

[Maschil]

as far as the the denominations are mans ideas... just look at the Old Testament... God started Israel Himself.. and as you read through Isaiah atleast 8 times God talked about How was to be a light to the gentiles

Isaiah 11:10

10 ¶ And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. Gentiles will seek Messiah

Isaiah 42:6

6I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

Isaiah 49:6

6And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Isaiah 49:22

22Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.a

Isaiah 54:3

3For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

Isaiah 60:3

3And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

Isaiah 60:5

5Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.a, b

Isaiah 61:9

9And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.

Isaiah 62:2

2And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

Notice this

Isaiah 66:19

19And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

The last chapter of Isaiah

My basic point is in agreement with Jesus in John 10, Jesus has sheep in other folds and He has raised up the Seventh-day Adventist Church to bring in those sheep into "one fold" yea even into the Seventh-day Adventist Church

[oldsailor29]

it's perfectly relevant if man puts faith in a book and not in God. it's no better than the catholic with a crucifix in hand beliving that it holds power from God.

I have to say, I think putting faith in the writings of divinely inspired writers is much better than putting faith in a crucifix.

And the influence of the Holy Spirit is needed for our enlightenment regardless of which of God's books we are reading, the Bible or nature. All the pagan religions worshiped nature, and mother nature is a harlot.

Prophecy is not theology. It only serves to validate, after it is fulfilled. I don't know why so many people want to study prophecy. We know how it is going to turn out. God is going to win. All the stuff that happens between now and then is just filler. What is really interesting is what will happen after the great controversy is all settled. And some of that information can only be found in the teachings of Jesus, in the Bible, not in nature. Still, in order to see it, one must be shown by the Holy Spirit.

May the Lord bless us, everyone.

[TreeOfLife]

Daniel 2:35

”The Stone that Smote the Image…”

I would love to have people review the information at this link and comment on it. If the information at this link is illustrated correctly and factually it exposes the fulfillment of a great many prophecies, clears up many denominational speculations that have existed in history passed down traditionally from Christian forefathers. Basically if the overall presentation of information is correct and the information on page 35 is truely ancient, then the entire Christian world regardless of denomination is a child of Catholism build on a catholic foundation.

You have to see the information to even comprehend why this is important to everyone living today.

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

Please feel free to comment. This covers every verse of testimony on this topic as well as historical references deemed by Rome as heresey.. yet if we uproot what we perceive as tares.. we uproot the wheat also.

Dear Todd M. Vetter,

After having reviewed in some detail the arguments you are bringing forth within your 51 web pages and the references you are providing in support of your arguments, most particularly “The Gospel of the Holy Twelve,” it seems to me quite clear that your work is little but a not too subtle attempt to do more of the exact same thing as the Roman Catholic Church is infamous for doing since its infancy. That is, to destroy, wherever possible, trust in the Holy Scriptures and in the Word of God. It seems quite easy for me to point out numerous inconsistencies within your work, but I believe it may be sufficient in that regard to say simply that you’ve done a beautiful job in proving to me, if not to all of your readers, that you’ve completely failed in your attempt to find a coherent and harmonious solution to the true witness of the records of truth which are familiar to us under the name the New Testament. [in contradistinction please feel free to cf. this link!]

If you are indeed as honest in your pursuit of truth as my first reading of your posts (prior to a slightly deeper study of your web presentation) as thus far published in this thread made me think you are - and perhaps indeed you are? - then, to begin with, I present you with one challenge only:

I challenge you to prove to me and to the readers of this forum that the foundation stones upon which this very brief article of mine is built cannot be relied upon. In other words, I challenge you to prove to me that Ptolemy’s Almagest and his Canon of the Kings can still be relied upon to the extent that they have been, even to this very time, by the great majority of scholars the world over, unfortunately not excluding even most, if not all, SDA scholars and theologians…

Will you accept my challenge?

Shabbat Shalom,

Tree of Life©

PS. You have a most interesting name. Is it the name you were given by your parents, or is it a pseudonym of your own making? The meaning of names in the Bible adds much value to its context. So, as I’ve found it be, so it is even today…

[todd_vetter]

The word of God is what God spoke. It is scrpture that can never be broken. Why did Rome give man 4 half truths when the holy spirit is able to provide the full truth?

What single gospel gives the full truth by it's self?

Are my words not true?

You search the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life. All God wants is for you to come tim him. Take out all the christian history from the document and the word of God gives you three days and three nights based on bible alone by identifying that the 4 gospels are partial truths by them selves.

The history only validates the word of God and illustrates the bible which you received from Rome keeps the christian world confused and in half the truth ever learning and never coming to the truth (God)

God Bless

[todd_vetter]

regarding your challenge.

The very evidence you seek you have aready found! The gospel of holy 12 is closer to what the apostle originally taught. You are unaware of this because you do not believe the witness that God gave his son to be true and like the many make God out to be a liar while you bare false witness in your half truth perception of wisdom. Unless the spirit of God is in you. You are dead and the dead know nothing.

All are born in death and must attain to life!

prophecy is testimony of jesus (prophecy illustrates why G-12 predates the 4 roman gospels in your bible today. Being that i have posted this information in just the last week i'm sure your review of the 51 pages was less than objective and with the g-12 text haveing over 96 chapters of continuous information from Christian history. You missed a few pages in your review to be objective in your critism and judgement.

Feel free to check these matters out deeper .. you'll find that your challenge was already lost to you.

God Bless

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

[todd_vetter]

Christ stated that he fulfilled all things in the Law, the prophets, and psalms concerning Him.

The Challenge for you and the readers of this forum. Illustrate for me with verified ancient testimony a greater illustration of fulfillment of both parts of Exodus 12.

Page 11 along with the ancient gospel text referenced at the link on the top right of the page clearly shows that Christ fulfilled this prophecy.

Find for me in the bible where it illustrates clearly the fulfilment of exodus 12 since christ as the lamb of God had to fulfill this prophecy.

here is the link. See page 11

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

It's easy to illustrate using prophecy that the bible is a flawwed doctrine. Mulitple prohecies however illustrate that What God actually spoke contains no flaw.

Good Luck

[TreeOfLife]

In Response to Todd’s Posts – I

Dear Todd,

Please don’t misunderstand me! No offense intended. Seeing what I am seeing in your words and in your work, on the one hand I recognize a number of things that make it clear to me that you are very actively pursuing the truth while also being willing to reject ancient lies handed down to all of us through the ages. This is a most admirable trait of yours and one all too rare among the people on this planet – even among our beloved Seventh-day Advent people. I highly commend you for being willing to stand up for your convictions in the face of all the opposition that almost always follows in the tracks of such admirable behavior.

On the other hand I also see that in regards to a number of particulars you are still stuck in the mud while holding on to such false presumptions as most or all of us have grown up thinking and believing are God’s honest truth when in fact they are not.

It is very hard indeed – especially when first trying it - for all of us to feel safe while cutting off the branch we are sitting on such that we may come ever closer to a perfect view of the ultimate roots of our systems of belief, that is, those systems that provide for each of us a sense of security in life, even that which we perceive as our trust in God.

Yet, having a perfect trust in our Creator and Savior and in His ability to guide us safely from truth to truth, from glory to glory, into concepts and a way of thinking and being that for each of us is heretofore unknown and unfamiliar, is in itself part and parcel of that which provides for us the strength of mind necessary for doing what needs to be done.

Having said that, perhaps you will be more willing to accept my unskilled attempts towards providing for you, to the best of my very limited ability, a little bit of constructive criticism, to the end that eventually each of our understanding of reality will end up being a little better than it was before:

The word of God is what God spoke. It is scrpture that can never be broken…

[TreeOfLife]

In Response to Todd’s Posts – II

Dear Todd,

Continued…

regarding your challenge.

The very evidence you seek you have aready found!

[TreeOfLife]

In Response to Todd’s Posts – III

Christ stated that he fulfilled all things in the Law, the prophets, and psalms concerning Him.

The Challenge for you and the readers of this forum. Illustrate for me with verified ancient testimony a greater illustration of fulfillment of both parts of Exodus 12.

Page 11 along with the ancient gospel text referenced at the link on the top right of the page clearly shows that Christ fulfilled this prophecy.

Find for me in the bible where it illustrates clearly the fulfilment of exodus 12 since christ as the lamb of God had to fulfill this prophecy.

here is the link. See page 11

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

It's easy to illustrate using prophecy that the bible is a flawwed doctrine. Mulitple prohecies however illustrate that What God actually spoke contains no flaw.

Good Luck

[Gail]

I am just wondering where this train of thought (that the Bible as we have it is not to be trusted) will lead...

[Dr. Rich]

Gail, would it not lead us to test everything like we are supposed to do? If it was good for them to test those who called themselves apostels in the NT as found in Rev. 2:2, then what is wrong with testing everything anyone has to say (dead or alive) against the what Jesus said and taught?

Having TRUST in God is not the same thing as having 'faith' that the whole bible is the inerrant word of God. I will tell you this (and I am way dumber than Satan) that IF I were Satan, I would have used someone to confuse the budding christian church! I would have made it easy for people to mistakenly believe that they are saved by grace through faith without having them feel guilty for following a lie.

By the way, didn't EGW say that God NEVER forces anyone to believe in Him? Then how come God forced Saul by making him blind? Uh?