Stewart (SDA) Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 This may be a simple question, but I am trying to clarify something about the Sanctuary service. Bearing in mind that if a lamb was used as a sin-offering, it was to be a FEMALE (Lev 4:32), can somebody please show me from Scripture that the blood of a MALE LAMB was ever taken inside the Tabernalce? Yes, the blood of lambs was certainly put onto the Altar of Burnt Offerings in the courtyard, but I can't find mention of a male lamb's blood going into either the holy place, or into the most holy place. Is it there and I am just missing it? Regards, Stewart. Quote
BobRyan Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 A male goat - Lev 4:23 Lev 9:3 a lamb, male goat Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Stewart (SDA) Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 A male goat - Lev 4:23 Lev 9:3 a lamb, male goat Thank you BobRyan. Your first reference (Lev 4:23) refers to a male goat, as you say, but even with reference to this goat, it's blood was used only on the altar in the courtyard : "the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out his blood at the bottom of the altar of burnt offering." (Lev 4:25) Your next reference (Lev 9:3) speaks about a calf and a lamb being offered as burnt offerings (to be burnt on the altar in the courtyard)... but their blood was not taken into the holy place, was it? Regards, Stewart. Quote
Guest WilloMar Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 What’s all this garbage about the sanctuary service of the ceremonial laws of Moses? The Creator had nothing to do with those abominations: “For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices.” Jer. 7:22. “To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto Me? Saith the Lord....When ye come to appear before Me, who hath required this at your hand....etc. Isa. 1:11-17. (Also read Isa. 66:3, 4.) Ps. 40:6 says: “Sacrifice and offering Thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast Thou not required.” (Read these verses, too, Ps. 51:16, 17; 1 Sam. 15:22 and Hos. 6:6.) Why do you bother intellectualizing those laws of the destroyer? Prepare for His soon second coming! Quote
Guest WilloMar Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Which God? I just posted many verses with a, “Thus saith the Lord” that you don’t seem to acknowledge! What temple in heaven? “And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.” Rev. 21:22. It is true that everything in the earthly temple pointed to Jesus Christ, so why not just go to Him? Yes, just go to Him with no blood stained hands. Prepare to welcome Him who is coming every soon! Quote
Guest WilloMar Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 God knows that people like we, with limited reasoning ability throughout the history of the world, need things to see to help and strengthen our faith. We know that the temple in heaven is Christ Himself. There’s no temple building there. And what need is there for a city? To keep the bad guys out so they won’t hurt anyone? Come on, everyone will be immortal. They could walk on the surface of the sun and not be hurt. Speaking of the sun, there is none when the new earth is completed. Rev. 21:23: “And the city had no need of the sun...” We must get ready for Jesus! Quote
Stewart (SDA) Posted July 1, 2009 Author Posted July 1, 2009 What’s all this garbage about the sanctuary service of the ceremonial laws of Moses? I am sorry that the tone of my voice can't be heard through the screen WilloMar, because I mean you no disrespect. But do you understand that this is a Seventh Day Adventist site? You come as a stranger into another mans "house" and yet you take on the tone of criticism and superiority. I expect you realize that the New Testament teaching is that, if we as Seventh Day Adventists are taken in a fault (over our Sanctuary doctrines), then a spiritual one is to correct our faulty views, and this is to be done in the spirit of meekness. Meekness is not taking the high seat, nor using un-necessarily coarse language in order to convince us of our error. Regards, Stewart. Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Quote
Twilight Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Which God? I just posted many verses with a, “Thus saith the Lord” that you don’t seem to acknowledge! What temple in heaven? “And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.” Rev. 21:22. It is true that everything in the earthly temple pointed to Jesus Christ, so why not just go to Him? Yes, just go to Him with no blood stained hands. Prepare to welcome Him who is coming every soon! Ellen White prohecised that in that last days the sanctuary doctrine would be attacked. That it would even be denied that it existed. I view your post in this light willomar, I have no other choice. Mark Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 HEY WILLOMAR we as followers of JESUS CHRIST do not have to offer sacrifices but there is a HEAVENLY SANCTUARY READ HEWS Chap 8----9---10 it talks about it SINCE there is a Heavenly Sanctuary that is were JESUS is not blotting out our sins now as the High Priest with out this act Heaven would not be cleansed of sin and since this is were the earthly sanctuary was pattern after and since every part of the earthly sanctuary pointed to JESUS so the sanctuary must be important for our salvation just like the earthly sanctuary cleanse the sin so the HEAVENLY SANCTUARY cleanses JESUS follower of sin remember sin can not be in the presence of GOD dgrimm60 Jesus teaches us the great truths of Justification and sanctification through the sanctuary service. :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 God knows that people like we, with limited reasoning ability throughout the history of the world, need things to see to help and strengthen our faith. We know that the temple in heaven is Christ Himself. There’s no temple building there. And what need is there for a city? To keep the bad guys out so they won’t hurt anyone? Come on, everyone will be immortal. They could walk on the surface of the sun and not be hurt. Speaking of the sun, there is none when the new earth is completed. Rev. 21:23: “And the city had no need of the sun...” We must get ready for Jesus! I do not know what you have been reading, or whose teachings you have been following Willomar, but you have really left some foundational truths behind. I sense some type of "holiness movement" thinking in your theology. I am concerned for you my friend. Mark Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Robert Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Ellen White prohecised that in that last days the sanctuary doctrine would be attacked. The attack won't be on buildings, but the truth it points to: "We are complete in Christ".... Quote
Robert Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Jesus teaches us the great truths of Justification and sanctification through the sanctuary service. No, Jesus taught the Jews of old the sanctuary model. Christians today have the reality, Christ. In Him we are complete. Christ's body, which we belong to, is the curtain that hung between the holy and most holy place. "In Him" we can come boldly before God's law because we are "complete in Christ". Quote
Twilight Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Twilight Jesus teaches us the great truths of Justification and sanctification through the sanctuary service. No, Jesus taught the Jews of old the sanctuary model. Christians today have the reality, Christ. In Him we are complete. Christ's body, which we belong to, is the curtain that hung between the holy and most holy place. "In Him" we can come boldly before God's law because we are "complete in Christ". Jesus taught the disciples from the writings of "Moses". Most of the new testament is expressed in Sanctuary language. Including Revelation. Those "buildings" that are dismissed so "easily", are the most beautiful object lesson about Christ's ministry ever given to man. Mark Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Twilight Jesus teaches us the great truths of Justification and sanctification through the sanctuary service. No, Jesus taught the Jews of old the sanctuary model. Christians today have the reality, Christ. In Him we are complete. Christ's body, which we belong to, is the curtain that hung between the holy and most holy place. "In Him" we can come boldly before God's law because we are "complete in Christ". The Sanctuary was a teaching aid for the Jews and for the early Christians. Christ is always the centre, but the sanctuary lessons still point to Christ, in the past and present. Mark Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
BobRyan Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Indeed Mark -- as it turns out the sanctuary teaching in Lev 16 is part of what the NT saints call "scripture" -- the "Word of God". By it all other doctrine is tested. In fact in Acts 17:11 - Paul himself is tested by it. Paul says in 1Cor 10:2-5 that "in reality" the Jews were "baptized into Christ" in the Old Testament. In Gal 1:6-11 Paul says that "in reality" there has ALWAYS been just ONE Gospel and that that very Gospel was preached to Abraham Gal 3:7. Paul argues in Heb 4:2 that THE Gospel was "preached to US just as it was to THEM also". Enoch went directly to heaven under the "Reality" of that ONE Gospel. Elijah went directly to heaven without seeing death under the "reality" of that ONE Gospel in ALL ages. Moses was raised from the dead and stood a living testament to the "reality" of the Gospel as he along with Elijah spoke to Christ in Matt 17. Yes - it "turns out " that not only is the Bible 'real' even in the Old Testmant as a "Word of God" - but so also was and is Christ "real" and so also was and is the Gospel "real". Christ is "The SAME yesterday today and forever" because He is God who "Does not change". in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Twilight Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Indeed Mark -- as it turns out the sanctuary teaching in Lev 16 is part of what the NT saints call "scripture" -- the "Word of God". By it all other doctrine is tested. In fact in Acts 17:11 - Paul himself is tested by it. Paul says in 1Cor 10:2-5 that "in reality" the Jews were "baptized into Christ" in the Old Testament. In Gal 1:6-11 Paul says that "in reality" there has ALWAYS been just ONE Gospel and that that very Gospel was preached to Abraham Gal 3:7. Paul argues in Heb 4:2 that THE Gospel was "preached to US just as it was to THEM also". Enoch went directly to heaven under the "Reality" of that ONE Gospel. Elijah went directly to heaven without seeing death under the "reality" of that ONE Gospel in ALL ages. Moses was raised from the dead and stood a living testament to the "reality" of the Gospel as he along with Elijah spoke to Christ in Matt 17. Yes - it "turns out " that not only is the Bible 'real' even in the Old Testmant as a "Word of God" - but so also was and is Christ "real" and so also was and is the Gospel "real". Christ is "The SAME yesterday today and forever" because He is God who "Does not change". in Christ, Bob Ellen White warned that this doctrine would be attacked in the end days Bob. And here we see it happening. Get rid of the sanctuary, then you get rid of the law and get rid of sanctification... You end up with: "Once saved always saved".... Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Moderators Gerr Posted July 1, 2009 Moderators Posted July 1, 2009 What’s all this garbage about the sanctuary service of the ceremonial laws of Moses? "Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple." Rev 11:19 ESV. Prepare for His soon second coming! Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted July 1, 2009 Moderators Posted July 1, 2009 What’s all this garbage about the sanctuary service of the ceremonial laws of Moses? The Creator had nothing to do with those abominations: “For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices.” Jer. 7:22. “To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto Me? Saith the Lord....When ye come to appear before Me, who hath required this at your hand....etc. Isa. 1:11-17. (Also read Isa. 66:3, 4.) Ps. 40:6 says: “Sacrifice and offering Thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast Thou not required.” (Read these verses, too, Ps. 51:16, 17; 1 Sam. 15:22 and Hos. 6:6.) Why do you bother intellectualizing those laws of the destroyer? Prepare for His soon second coming! Those sacrifices became meaningless because, "if I give away ALL I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain NOTHING!" 1 Cor 13:3 ESV. Study Lev 16 and you will find the second coming prefigured! Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted July 1, 2009 Moderators Posted July 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Twilight Jesus teaches us the great truths of Justification and sanctification through the sanctuary service. No, Jesus taught the Jews of old the sanctuary model. Christians today have the reality, Christ. In Him we are complete. Christ's body, which we belong to, is the curtain that hung between the holy and most holy place. "In Him" we can come boldly before God's law because we are "complete in Christ". God uses parables and even the visual aid of a playbox to teach a vital truth, because while some people claim to be "complete in Christ," their life and teaching deny the fact. Quote
Musicman1228 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Did Jesus teach from the O.T. 'model'? Absolutely. Did that teaching include the lessons that needed to be learned by Israel from the Sanctuary Service with respect to how salvation worked? Again, absolutely. Did Jesus fail in any way in teaching what is needed for us to know in finding salvation? Absolutely NOT. If He failed in anything He was not God. Ergo, what is taught by O.T, Scripture cannot and must not be put aside in favor of any teaching by anyone in the N.T. or anywhere else that changes the plan of how God will eradicate sin from this world, and from the universe. Salvation is identical for the Jew or Gentile-you must be in the Kingdom of God to be saved. Quote
oldsailor29 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Musicman - Your second paragraph does not agree with the first. You said, "Did Jesus teach from the O.T. 'model'? Absolutely. Did that teaching include the lessons that needed to be learned by Israel from the Sanctuary Service with respect to how salvation worked? Again, absolutely. Did Jesus fail in any way in teaching what is needed for us to know in finding salvation? Absolutely NOT." What should logically follow would be that the Old Testament is no longer necessary. Quote Prs God, frm whm blssngs flw http://www.zoelifestyle.com/jmccall
Twilight Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Musicman - Your second paragraph does not agree with the first. You said, "Did Jesus teach from the O.T. 'model'? Absolutely. Did that teaching include the lessons that needed to be learned by Israel from the Sanctuary Service with respect to how salvation worked? Again, absolutely. Did Jesus fail in any way in teaching what is needed for us to know in finding salvation? Absolutely NOT." What should logically follow would be that the Old Testament is no longer necessary. What should logically follow would be that the Old Testament is no longer necessary. What books did Jesus and the disciples teach from AFTER Jesus was crucified? Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Robert Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Those "buildings" that are dismissed so "easily", are the most beautiful object lesson about Christ's ministry ever given to man. Mark The reality is Christ....You are still stuck on the symbols.... Quote
Robert Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Get rid of the sanctuary, then you get rid of the law and get rid of sanctification... You end up with: "Once saved always saved".... And you guys end up with self-righteousness & legalism! Quote
BobRyan Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Good ranting Robert -- but you are short on actual facts. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.