Sam Pipim is presenting a series of talks called "Trojan Horses"..

[olger]

The main Trojan horse is the "Emerging Church" movement. Good. I'm am glad that someone is hitting the "emerging church" stuff in the postmodern solar plexus. Hey, it would be cool if Sam would present that lecture in Ohio...

ha,

`g

[carolaa]

The main Trojan horse is the "Emerging Church" movement. Good. I'm am glad that someone is hitting the "emerging church" stuff in the postmodern solar plexus.

What's that? I've never heard of it.

[GoLions]

I heard him talk on this at the Michigan camp meeting last week. Dr. Pipim takes no prisoners.

[carolaa]

Good grief.

[oldsailor29]

Isn't our Dr. Samuel Koranteng-Pipim one of the leaders of the Adventist Theological Society?    I read "Receiving the Word," and was negatively impressed.    I believe our Dr. Alden Thompson has revealed in his book, "Inspiration," a much more accurate grasp of the truth, on the nature of divine inspiration.

I doubt Pipim will ever give up his idea that God gave His prophets the words to speak or write.    His bias against female leadership is much too strong for him to abandon his biblical support.    Only the Holy Spirit will be able to change his heart and his false concepts, and correct the erroneous ideas in his head.

[Woody]

Yes Oldsailor. You are right on. Alden has a much better grasp on the nature of divine inspiration. I think Pipim is way off base and far to stuck in his own theological ditch.

[fccool]

Today many churches that adapt to the culture of today have a danger of being classified as "emmergent" . It's ironic, because many fundamental and non-emergent churches today take on the attitude of "come and learn, and like what you hear", instead of asking what actually would be interesting to people to come and learn. It's a shocker that people will more likely to listen their actual questions and concerns answered.

I understand the concern with the "seaker churches", the ones that "soften up the message" in order to attract the larger crowds. I certainly think many do deserve the criticism. Yet, I feel like much of the criticism does come from the congregations that are not willing to make any cultural changes to accommodate the "modern people". I'm not talking about immoral changes here, or even compromising on the message or God's word... I'm talking about cultural changes .

Some of the arguments I hear against these are quite ridiculous... you see, it's ok to have electric guitar and drums playing on tape during the special music, but it's a bit no-no to have these play live.

It's completely not OK to change the layout of the churches to appear less baroque and more friendly and comfortable by putting a couple couches up front... after all, people in church can't be too comfortable, or they'll fall asleep ( wonder why

And, God forbid if pastors deal with real life issues and situations!

Can a church be a church that accommodates the above and still preaches the truth in word and action? Many fundamentalists conclude that NO.

[carolaa]

Stuff like that gets so wearying. I have to keep reminding myself that any time something different is tried, people will be there to criticize. Mostly, people are afraid of change. Or it is plain selfishness of wanting only what they like and are comfortable with. But fear and selfishness are not from God. And we can't let criticisms stop us from trying new things.

[BobRyan]

"emerging church" is the idea that any error is fine as long as it gets more people in the door. That is in fact an old idea - Constantine was pretty good at it.

in Christ,

Bob

[Neil D]

Isn't our Dr. Samuel Koranteng-Pipim one of the leaders of the Adventist Theological Society?    I read "Receiving the Word," and was negatively impressed.    I believe our Dr. Alden Thompson has revealed in his book, "Inspiration," a much more accurate grasp of the truth, on the nature of divine inspiration.

I doubt Pipim will ever give up his idea that God gave His prophets the words to speak or write.    His bias against female leadership is much too strong for him to abandon his biblical support.    Only the Holy Spirit will be able to change his heart and his false concepts, and correct the erroneous ideas in his head.

It seems to me that, since we are talking about Trojan Horses, that Samuel Koranteng-pipim is a trojan horse....

[Woody]

Quote:

It seems to me that, since we are talking about Trojan Horses, that Samuel Koranteng-pipim is a trojan horse....

I can think of many labels to call him. But I will resist. I have an image to maintain.

[BobRyan]

HEY OLGER

THIS sounds like it would be good to listen to

dgrimm60

Correct. He is an oustanding Bible student and speaker. I heard him at one of the GYC conferences a few years ago.

What a blessing.

in Christ,

Bob

[Richard Holbrook]

Samuel Pipim is a man of God, and isn't afraid to speak the truth. The ones I see on here putting him down have never even listened to him.

Here is a link to a whole list of his sermons. Some video and some audio. http://www.hopevideo.com/media_with_samuel_koranteng-pipim-2.htm

[Richard Holbrook]

There is a principle by which is guaranteed to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. And that is contempt prior to investigation

[John317]

I see a split coming in our church, and I think the split will be between those who believe that God empowers us to overcome sin in our lives and that we are living in the antitypical Day of Atonement, and those who believe that overcoming sin is not essential and that we are not living in the antitypical Day of Atonement. The latter believe that God's people cannot really keep the commandments of God and that the church will keep right on sinning until Christ returns.

One side has bought into the evangelical view of the gospel, and the other still believes strongly in the "pillars of our faith," including the Investigative Judgment and the Third Angels' Messages as described by Ellen White in books such as The Great Controversy.

[Richard Holbrook]

One side has bought into the evangelical view of the gospel, and the other still believes strongly in the "pillars of our faith," including the Investigative Judgment and the Third Angels' Messages as described by Ellen White in books such as The Great Controversy.

You're right John, I see those two groups also. I hate to say it but the group that thinks you cannot overcome seems to be much larger. They have bought into the lie.

[Richard Holbrook]

Which is to bad because the Bible says:

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. 2 Thess 2:10,11

[BobRyan]

If you read George Knight's book "Search for Identity" pg 173-178 he explains how the "split" occurred at Andrews in the 1950's between Adreason's leadership and Heppenstall's leadership. Heppenstall basically sought to destroy the work that Andreason did regarding the idea of living without rebellion, perfection of character, final generation, close of probation etc etc.

Since then they have been graduating generation after generation totally opposed to Andreason's model.

Over time - it has changed the local churches. Now you never hear those sermons from the pulpit. Gone are the days my friends.

Here are some interesting quotes from our old 1931 22-Fundamental Beliefs.

Quote:

Belief #8 -

That the law of ten commandments points out sin, the penalty of which is death. The law cannot save the transgressor from his sin, nor impart power to keep him from sinning. In infinite love and mercy God provides a way whereby this may be done. He furnishes a substitute, even Christ the righteous one, to die in man’s stead, making “him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him” (2 Corinthians 5:21). We are justified, not by obedience to the law, but by the grace that is in Christ Jesus. By accepting Christ, man is reconciled to God, justified by the blood of Christ for the sins of the past, and saved from the power of sin by His indwelling life. Thus the gospel becomes “The power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.” This experience is wrought by the divine agency of the Holy Spirit, who convinces of sin and leads to the Sin Bearer, inducting believers into the new-covenant relationship, where the law of God is written on their hearts; and through the enabling power of the indwelling Christ, their lives are brought into conformity to the divine precepts. The honor and merit of this wonderful transformation belong wholly to Christ (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; 3:20; Ephesians 2:8-10; 1 John 2:1, 2; Romans 5:8-10; Galatians 2:20; Ephesians 3:17; Hebrews 8:8-12).

Quote:

Belief #14.

That the true sanctuary, of which the tabernacle on earth was a type, is the temple of God in heaven, of which Paul speaks in Hebrews 8 and onward, and of which the Lord Jesus, as our great high priest, is minister. The priestly work of our Lord is the antitype of the work of the Jewish priests of the former dispensation. That this heavenly sanctuary is the one to be cleansed at the end of the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14, its cleansing being, as in the type, a work of judgment, beginning with the entrance of Christ as the high priest upon the judgment phase of His ministry in the heavenly sanctuary, foreshadowed in the earthly service of cleansing the sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. This work of judgment in the heavenly sanctuary began in 1844. Its completion will close human probation (Daniel 7:9, 10; 8:14; Hebrews 8:1, 2, 5; Revelation 20:12; Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6).

Quote:

Belief #15

That God, in the time of the judgment and in accordance with His uniform dealing with the human family in warning them of coming events vitally affecting their destiny (Amos 3:6, 7), sends forth a proclamation of the approach of the Second Advent of Christ; that this work is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14, and that their threefold message brings to view a work of reform to prepare a people to meet Him at His coming (Amos 3:6, 7; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Revelation 14:6-12).

Quote:

Belief #16

That the time of the cleansing of the sanctuary, synchronizing with the period of the proclamation of the message of Revelation 14, is a time of investigative judgment, first, with reference to the dead, and second, with reference to the living. This investigative judgment determines who of the myriads sleeping in the dust of the earth are worthy of a part in the first resurrection, and who of its living multitudes are worthy of translation (1 Peter 4:17, 18; Daniel 7:9, 10; Revelation 14:6, 7; Luke 20:35).

http://www.greatcontroversy.org/gco/orc/fb1931.php

Of course "today" - Belief number 23 in the 27 FB (so that would be belief 24 in the 28FB) is supposed to cover that.

in Christ,

Bob

[John317]

http://www.audioverse.org/displayspeaker/18/DennisPriebe

http://www.presentruth.com/2009/04/victory-over-sin-how/

[oldsailor29]

Samuel Pipim is a man of God, and isn't afraid to speak the truth. The ones I see on here putting him down have never even listened to him.

I have no doubt that brother Pipim is not timid about speaking his mind. I read his book (was it his doctoral thesis?) "Receiving The Word." After finishing that, I have not been tempted to read his essays or listen to his sermons. I admit that I should check occasionally to see if he has repented, but have been willing to leave that between him and God.

I think it is ironic that brother Pipim has titled his series, "Trojan Horses." The irony being that his fundamentalist belief on the nature of inspiration is the biggest "Trojan Horse" in the world of theology. the fundamentalist belief that God gave men the words of the Bible to speak and write has been denied many times by Ellen White. Here is just one example.

"The Infinite One by His Holy Spirit has shed light into the minds and hearts of His servants. He has given dreams visions, symbols and figures; and those to whom the truth was thus revealed have themselves embodied the thought in human language." (GC Introduction paragraph 3)

[John317]

I think it is ironic that brother Pipim has titled his series, "Trojan Horses." The irony being that his fundamentalist belief on the nature of inspiration is the biggest "Trojan Horse" in the world of theology. the fundamentalist belief that God gave men the words of the Bible to speak and write has been denied many times by Ellen White. Here is just one example.

"The Infinite One by His Holy Spirit has shed light into the minds and hearts of His servants. He has given dreams visions, symbols and figures; and those to whom the truth was thus revealed have themselves embodied the thought in human language." (GC Introduction paragraph 3)

Can you quote the statements of brother Pipim which contradict Ellen White?

[Jeannieb43]

If you read George Knight's book "Search for Identity" pg 173-178 he explains how the "split" occurred at Andrews in the 1950's between Adreason's leadership and Heppenstall's leadership. Heppenstall basically sought to destroy the work that Andreason did regarding the idea of living without rebellion, perfection of character, final generation, close of probation etc etc.

in Christ,

Bob

The Andreason of the 1950s bears no relationship to the current President of Andrews University, Dr. Niels-Erik Andreasen. Totally different persons, and totally different personalities. As a teenager I remember hearing Elder Andreason preach on numerous occasions, both in Takoma Park and at camp meeting sessions elsewhere.

The "Andrews of the 1950s" referred to by George Knight really refers to the SDA Theological Seminary. It was located in Takoma Park, Maryland during most of the 1950s, only being moved to the campus of Andrews University in the late 1950s [1958 or so, as I recall].

[oldsailor29]

Can you quote the statements of brother Pipim which contradict Ellen White?

So it is your position that brother Pipim does not believe God gave His messengers the words they spoke and wrote? If this is true, and he doesn't believe in word inspiration then I am wrong and I apologize for saying it was his belief, and for erecting a "straw dog." I think brother Pipim and the Adventist Theology Society, as well as most people in SDA pews, all believe in word inspiration. But, as Dr. Dean Davis would say, I could be wrong. :smile:

[BobRyan]

I think it is ironic that brother Pipim has titled his series, "Trojan Horses." The irony being that his fundamentalist belief on the nature of inspiration is the biggest "Trojan Horse" in the world of theology. the fundamentalist belief that God gave men the words of the Bible to speak and write has been denied many times by Ellen White. Here is just one example.

"The Infinite One by His Holy Spirit has shed light into the minds and hearts of His servants. He has given dreams visions, symbols and figures; and those to whom the truth was thus revealed have themselves embodied the thought in human language." (GC Introduction paragraph 3)

[BobRyan]

If you read George Knight's book "Search for Identity" pg 173-178 he explains how the "split" occurred at Andrews in the 1950's between Adreason's leadership and Heppenstall's leadership. Heppenstall basically sought to destroy the work that Andreason did regarding the idea of living without rebellion, perfection of character, final generation, close of probation etc etc.

in Christ,

Bob