An Appeal To SDA's On This Site

[Woody]

I enjoy listening to Doug frequently. Last Sabbath he was talking about the need for us to proclaim that we are saved when we are around other Christians. I fully agree with him. That should be our proclaimation and our unifying doctrine.

[jasd]

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went linking...

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Quote:BRI

“The number 144,000 is one of several apparently cryptic numbers of Revelation that has caused much speculation. Generations of Christians including Adventists have studied this symbol.” [ed.jasd]

Sheesh! immediately after the topical sentence and not three sentences into the ‘doctrinal study’ – the Bible Research Institute (no pun intended) asserts as the predicating premise – this symbol. What? cannot Jesus Christ have been allowed the small concession that He knows numbers and He was simply stating fact? How in the world could His message to the last generation have benefited – for Him to have dealt with such arcane esoterica to the complete confusion of so many? How can

serious dialogue be pursued with this sort of [sloppy?] research emerging from a credible(?) institute so-called?

For such willfulness to emanate from such as myself is forgivable, but from a ‘research institute’!? Wow.

(are my sentiments a bit over the top? Oh, okay, but aren’t we supposed to be all about truth? verily, verily)

[/hyperbolizing]

[LifeHiscost]

we know the prophecy that only the wise would understand the end time prophecy. So this is why you don't understand-yet

It is also illusory to imagine one's self as among the wise and reflects the attitude of one who had a great fall.

"For if any person thinks himself to be somebody ....when he is nobody [of superiority except in his own estimation], he deceives and deludes and cheats himself."

Galatians 6:3 AMP Brackets theirs LHC

"You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created until iniquity and guilt were found in you."

Ezekiel 28:15 AMP

"Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall."1 Corinthians 10:12 NKJV

"Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."Matthew 11:11 KJV

Regards!

[Richard Holbrook]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

we know the prophecy that only the wise would understand the end time prophecy. So this is why you don't understand-yet

It is also illusory to imagine one's self as among the wise and reflects the attitude of one who had a great fall.

"For if any person thinks himself to be somebody ....when he is nobody [of superiority except in his own estimation], he deceives and deludes and cheats himself."

Galatians 6:3 AMP Brackets theirs LHC

"Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall."1 Corinthians 10:12 NKJV

Good post LifeHiscost

[LifeHiscost]

Jesus....always called her "woman".

It is my understanding the word 'woman' in the Jewish social economy of Jesus' day, was used as a term of respect and endearment, and was never meant to disavow the rightful place of Mary in His experience as the Son of Man.

Thus; "When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!" John 19:26 KJV, it was with all the pathos of a Son Who was sadly leaving His responsibilities to take care of His mother, to His most trusted

friend.

Thus it was that John lovingly took Jesus' mother into his own home. And considering that it was John, the disciple closest to Jesus, it seems reasonable he would write what he knew to be true.

"Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home. "

John 19:25-27 KJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

BRI - Bathroom Readers Institute?

Doug Batchelor's views on anything-who cares. For the most part he just parrots SDA catechism. It is my belief that he is doing what he is doing for the money; take a look at his suits. But lest you believe I am singling him out; no one at the top of the Adventist denomination is living only on ministerial salary. There is big money there and at the top of the Adventist Health system.

While I may not agree with everything Doug Batchelor might conclude, as he is just as fallible as King David proved to be, I am satisfied God is using him as one of His servants to spread the last message to a dying world. There are a couple of reasons why I choose that path.

I have no reason to believe he is any less honest and trustworthy than yourself in what he believes. Secondly it is well known that when one is working for God, they will always receive attacks from the underworld, headed up by one far less trustworthy.

And as a child of God, I have every good reason to maintain a nonjudgmental attitude.

"DO NOT judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves."Matthew 7:2

"I will bless those who bless you,And I will curse him who curses you." Genesis 12:3 NKJV

Regards!

[Woody]

Quote:

BRI - Bathroom Readers Institute?

"Every hour squandered over the toilet should reprove them for leaving the intellect to lie waste." 4T 643

[Musicman1228]

With great popularity comes the tendency toward hubris. Humility in the face of high praise is almost an oxymoron. As a musician there is nothing I hate more that the false humility that is displayed by many people in the field that when faced with a compliment they say something like, "Don't praise me, it is all God working through me", or some such tripe.

Most spiritual musicians (the good ones) recognize the partnership between God and themselves. God provided the innate talent, but they provided the drive, will and work that it took to get them to a high performance level. God did not spend the thousands of hours in practice that it took for them to be able to perform well, they did. They recognize that they didn't acquire the 'bent' toward music, or preaching, or teaching or any other performance oriented field by luck or chance, that it was God that did that for them. I know immediately when a Christian musician has a sound working relationship with God because when complimented they will say, "Thank you. God and I make a good team", or they just say, "Thank you."

The most impressive preacher in this regard that I have ever personally heard that displayed the most force and power of the Holy Spirit but was the most humble gentleman was H.M.S.Richards. He was tremendously popular because of the V.O.P. broadcasts but I never once saw him display either arrogance or false humility. He was a true bondservant of Jesus Christ.

In the same vein from a music perspective is probably the greatest SDA musician that ever lived, who still behaves the same way as Elder Richards, and that is Herbert Bloomstedt. If you have never heard of him he was the conductor of the Dresden Statscappela (Dresden Symphony Orchestra), San Fransisco Symphony, Vienna Symphony, and still guest conducts with the LA Phil (last year he performed with them and Joshua Bell-violinist), Berlin Phil and others. If you ever get the chance to speak with him back stage after a performance you will find him the most humble, self-effacing man. If there was ever a man that had the excuse to be arrogant about his capabilities and accomplishments it is he. But even with the tremendous force of character it takes to be a world class Symphony conductor he is unassuming, gentle, and Christ like in everything he does.

So I can't help but cringe when I see and hear some of the young buck preachers and musicians that feel that they have to make a name for themselves. I find it sad and distressing that they feel that celebrity is important for the work of the Kingdom.

Doug Batchelor may be the nicest person in the world as a person. But when I see him on TV and see how he uses his practiced/coached smile and contrived gestures he reminds me of other TV preaches like Bennie Hinn, Creflo Dollar, D. James Kennedy, and the biggie Robert Schuler who all look as fake as a 3 dollar bill. We need genuine, caring people leading the way in the media and we have a few, but not enough. This could be another reason why we have not yet spread the gospel to the world.

[Richard Holbrook]

I saw HMS Richards Jr. once at camp meeting. He was good. ...Why do you think Doug Batchelor has to practise smiling, or that his gestures are contrived?

[LifeHiscost]

Doug Batchelor may be the nicest person in the world as a person. But when I see him on TV and see how he uses his practiced/coached smile and contrived gestures he reminds me of other TV preaches like Bennie Hinn, Creflo Dollar, D. James Kennedy, and the biggie Robert Schuler who all look as fake as a 3 dollar bill. We need genuine, caring people leading the way in the media and we have a few, but not enough. This could be another reason why we have not yet spread the gospel to the world.

There was a time in the not too distant past when it was true, my own sentiments were far more broad in there acceptance of others seemingly earnest concerns for the welfare of others than themselves. Recently however, I have picked up a cynical side to which I think I may have reason to be ashamed.

As a result of this slow insidious encroachment of less than an ideal characteristic, I would like to suggest these warnings from Jesus, to those of His followers who believe He is capable of giving to His trusted servants, powers beyond the devious or arcane.

"And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold."Matthew 24:12 NKJV

"To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled."Titus 1:15 NKJV

For those who see the worst in others, it is always good to check one's self.

"All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the spirits (the thoughts and intents of the heart)."Proverbs 16:2 AMP brackets theirs LHC

"Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?"Proverbs 20:9 KJV

"Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me." Psalm 51:10 NIV

Blessings!

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

Doug Batchelor may be the nicest person in the world as a person. But when I see him on TV and see how he uses his practiced/coached smile and contrived gestures he reminds me of other TV preaches like Bennie Hinn, Creflo Dollar, D. James Kennedy, and the biggie Robert Schuler who all look as fake as a 3 dollar bill. We need genuine, caring people leading the way in the media and we have a few, but not enough. This could be another reason why we have not yet spread the gospel to the world.

There was a time in the not too distant past when it was true, my own sentiments were far more broad in there acceptance of others seemingly earnest concerns for the welfare of others than themselves. Recently however, I have picked up a cynical side to which I think I may have reason to be ashamed.

As a result of this slow insidious encroachment of less than an ideal characteristic, I would like to suggest these warnings from Jesus, to those of His followers who believe He is capable of giving to His trusted servants, powers beyond the devious or arcane.

"And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold."Matthew 24:12 NKJV

"To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled."Titus 1:15 NKJV

For those who see the worst in others, it is always good to check one's self.

"All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the spirits (the thoughts and intents of the heart)."Proverbs 16:2 AMP brackets theirs LHC

"Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?"Proverbs 20:9 KJV

"Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me." Psalm 51:10 NIV

Blessings!

Amen.

[phkrause]

I find nothing fake about Doug Batchelor. I find him to be very humble. I could say that about HSM Richards but I wont. Because there are many that have really found him to have brought them to God, and that goes for many minsters. God uses each in different ways.

pk

[Richard Holbrook]

Hey pk, have you ever heard HMS Jr.?

[Musicman1228]

Richard Holbrook,

Fair question.

I know because I was once an actor (stage, TV and film) and I know good coaching when I see it. (I am a character actor NOT a method actor). Most people that go on stage that are not well trained fight natural gestures by over compensating, example: they naturally walk fast so on camera they walk unnaturally slowly. They naturally use a specific hand motion when speaking a particular word or phrase that does not look good on camera so they either change it or stop using it, but they have to think about it every time it happens, and you can see it.

The better the training the more effortless the body language and motions are, which means that instead of getting the real thing you are getting an actor. Actors by definition are hypocrites. So when I see Doug and others as well trained as they are I can't help believing that if they are hypocrites in their mannerisms what else are they hypocrites in. As I said before, it's a personal issue with me and doesn't reflect the kind of person he really is. I would rather see him completely unstudied than as obviously good as he is, I would feel more comfortable.

[phkrause]

Yes I have, many times. I wasn't trying to say the he was insincere, was just commenting to the comment make that Batchelor was fake.

pk

[Richard Holbrook]

..when I see Doug and others as well trained as they are I can't help believing that if they are hypocrites in their mannerisms what else are they hypocrites in. ....I would rather see him completely unstudied than as obviously good as he is, I would feel more comfortable.

Just because someone is smooth on camera dosn't necessarily mean they're a hypocrite.

[Woody]

I am not much appreciative of the use of the term hypocrite when one has not gotten to know the person. In fact ... I just don't like it period. It requires far too much judgement that I am not capable of.

[Stewart (SDA)]

Originally Posted By: Stewart (SDA)

.... in a spiritual sense, I sometimes wonder what Paul is saying in Galatians when he says,

"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." (4:26)

In what sense is New Jerusalem the mother of us all? i.e. the mother of all Christians?

.... if anyone does have a brief explanation, I would be interested.

The New Translation of Gal. 4: 24 makes it clear:

Quote:

These women [Hagar and Sarah] represent God's two covenants: the first covenant was given at Mount Sinai, resulting in the birth of children who would become slaves to the Law. This covenant is represented by Hagar. Now, 'Hagar' means Mount Sinai in Arabia, which corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she along with her children are in slavery to the Law. By contrast, the Jerusalem that is above is represented by Sarah, the free woman. She is our mother. For it is written, 'Be filled with joy, you who are barren and have never given birth....' verse 28. You, dear Christian friends, are children of promise, like Isaac. At that time the son born by human decision persecuted the one born by the power of the Spirit. So it is now. ....... Verse 31. So then, dear Christian friends, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman. 5:1. It is for freedom that Christ has set us free! So stand firm and do not let yourselves be burdened down again with the yoke of slavery.

Spiritually speaking, Sarah is our mother if we are believers in Christ, because, like Isaac, we are children of promise. We are sons of the free woman.

It is like Galatians 3: 29 says, "And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendant, and you inherit the promise God gave to Him."

Thank you John317, so I would say that if we are talking about our spiritual "mother", then the main Bible teaching on the subject is found in these verses.

[aldona]

I find nothing fake about Doug Batchelor. I find him to be very humble. I could say that about HSM Richards but I wont. Because there are many that have really found him to have brought them to God, and that goes for many minsters. God uses each in different ways.

pk

My husband and I were in the USA for 3 weeks last year and we had the privilege of worshipping at Sacramento Central SDA church and meeting Doug Batchelor. There is absolutely nothing fake about him. He is as genuine in real life as he is on camera - what you see is what you get. He came across as a very humble man who cares about people and takes a genuine interest in them. I have a lot of respect for him as a person, even when I don't always agree 100% with what he says.

aldona

[Musicman1228]

I was at friends house for a Bible study tonight and mentioned my comments about Doug Batchelor and acting, and he said that Pastor Batchelor should be a good actor because his parents are both actors. I did not know that but it does not surprise me. Aldona said that she and her husband saw and met Doug at his church and said he was as genuine in real life as he was on camera. This is a wonderful comment for an actor to hear because it means he is doing his job. In making my earlier comments about Doug as an actor I did not mean for anyone to think that I was criticizing him for acting. Certainly not. He is a wonderful actor and comes across to his audience exactly as he should, genuine, sincere, and friendly.

An actors job is to present his role in such a way so as no one but another trained actor would know. There is a memorable line in Disney's "Rocketeer" where they are filming a scene on a sound stage and an inept actress says her one line so badly that she ruins the take. The director comes up to her, puts his arm around her and says, "Acting is acting like you're not acting." This describes the actors art perfectly.

Doug Batchelor comes across as everything a solid preacher should be; friendly, knowledgable, sincere, earnest, direct and trustworthy. He may be all of those things but the only way he can get those things across to an audience over a camera is if he has practiced the characteristics of that role. He displays no distractions, which is impossible for a non actor to do. Everyone has something that when under pressure shows in their presentation. A twitch, a sniffle, blinking to fast, pulling at an ear or shirt cuff, biting a lip, twirling hair. These are called 'tells' and just as in poker these 'tells' reveal any number of things that a professional actor cannot reveal during a performance, or the performance is not credible. Tells are a major distraction and will get you canned from stage of set faster than telling the director he is an idiot. Just this one thing shows me that he is a terrific actor-he has no discernable tells.

His job is to get across to the audience what he is being paid to get across. This he does with great skill and penasch. My problem is that I know that while he may believe everything he says from the pulpit he is still an actor. Both H.M.S. Richards and his son H.M.S. Richards Jr. were anything but actors. They were often painful to look at as they preached because they were not actors but they could really get the message across. You could ignore the 'tells' because you were so fascinated by what they were saying. I think that is why H.M.S. Richards Sr. was so good on the radio.

It is unfortunate that in today's high profile media markets that it is necessary for the sake of the content to have actors doing the presentations. Today, without high quality actors such as Doug Batchelor no one would want to watch so no one would have the opportunity to learn any truth. So from that stand point good for you Doug.

[Richard Holbrook]

His mother did a little bit of acting, very little, his father had nothing to do with acting.

[Richard Holbrook]

Just this one thing shows me that he is a terrific actor-he has no discernable tells.

He comes across as excactly what he is: a person. As usual your saying things that you have no foundation for. You're giving your opinion as to what you you think is happening as if it were fact.

[LifeHiscost]

I am not much appreciative of the use of the term hypocrite when one has not gotten to know the person. In fact ... I just don't like it period. It requires far too much judgement that I am not capable of.

Good for you, Redwood. And I said that without my tongue in my cheek. :smile:

Keep looking up!

[Musicman1228]

No, Richard, it is my opinion and I never stated otherwise. However,"as usual" I do know whereof I speak because at one time I was an actor, and by the accounts of other a good one. I was not a method actor because I wanted to be a real one, so I studied for over 10 years with one of Hollywood's premier character actors; one who actually earned a good living playing all sorts of roles on stage and film. As a character actor I learned how to change my gate, face and mannerisms at will. By count I can still do accents or dialects in English (2), German (3), Irish, Scottish, French, Italian, Scandinavian, American (4), and Japanese. I have played complex roles in more than 2 dozen stage productions, 2 for TV and in 1 film (that fortunately never made it out of the can. Thankfully I got paid anyway). I could memorize a 3 act play in 2 weeks (tested eidetic memory) and never missed a mark once I was shown the blocking. In one play I actually played two characters, changing costumes and shifting gears in 3 separate scenes. I also taught drama for several years in public Jr. High School, and they don't hire you unless you can prove you know what you are talking about. So before you assume that I don't know what I am talking about you should ask me about it, and I will tell you honestly if I have knowledge and experience or not.

Frankly, I don't care if you believe me or not, I am telling you only what I see and know based on my experience. This is not personal with any of these TV preachers. The best of them do a good job in getting their message across, the worst are only embarrassing. Doug Batchelor is very good at what he does. And as I said earlier we need more like him if we as a church are going to compete in the real (reel) world of big time media, otherwise what you get is schlock that no one wants to watch.

Incidentally, the reason I got out of acting is that my parents finally recognized the brutality of the industry (even with a good agent. My agent was the same agent as Jay North who played the original Dennis the Menace). To be a quality actor you must learn how to fool people into thinking that you are something you are not. Later in life that turned out to be a problem that took me years to get shut of. Now, whenever I am asked whether a young person should go into acting I say that there is only on profession more slimy than being an actor and that is a practicing attorney. (Some of my best friends are lawyers.)

Blessings.

[LifeHiscost]

His job is to get across to the audience what he is being paid to get across. This he does with great skill and penasch. My problem is that I know that while he may believe everything he says from the pulpit he is still an actor. Both H.M.S. Richards and his son H.M.S. Richards Jr. were anything but actors. They were often painful to look at as they preached because they were not actors but they could really get the message across. You could ignore the 'tells' because you were so fascinated by what they were saying. I think that is why H.M.S. Richards Sr. was so good on the radio.

It is unfortunate that in today's high profile media markets that it is necessary for the sake of the content to have actors doing the presentations. Today, without high quality actors such as Doug Batchelor no one would want to watch so no one would have the opportunity to learn any truth. So from that stand point good for you Doug.

It is written somewhere in the Spirit of Prophecy that a Christian should be as transparent as glass. Much of today's society would find this very hard to do if they only practiced one counsel of the Word.

"Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed." James 5:16 NASB

It is happening more and more among believers and I believe it is a major reason the Gospel is going so fast. People are believing that there past is truly washed away by the blood of Jesus and they see no reason for continuing shame. It eliminates the need for hypocrisy. They no longer have baggage they need to carry with them as Jesus has cast it into the depths of the sea.

"He will again have compassion on us, And will subdue our iniquities. You will cast all our sins into the depths of the sea."Micah 7:19 NKJV

Blessings!