An Appeal To SDA's On This Site

[Musicman1228]

The following section is complex and may seem difficult. Please attend to it carefully as the content is critical to understanding the awesome operation involved in the salvation for those going through the time of trouble, the nations of the world.

TWO ATONEMENTS AND THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN

The Two Atonements

There is no truth more important to the Christian than the truth of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the sins of the repented people in the world. The evident relationship between Christ and the sinner is that no one can be saved into the Kingdom of Heaven without first repenting and accepting the Blood of Jesus Christ as payment for their sins. In the books of Exodus, Leviticus and Revelation we can read the exceedingly complicated and sometimes convoluted descriptions of law and action that seems to be only one step away from nuclear physics in its ability to either confuse us or put us to sleep.

Yet, through the intent study of these texts a realization has slowly and somewhat painfully dawned that all may not be well with our current understanding of how the truth of how salvation works in relation to the Kingdom of Heaven, and how atonement for the repentent people from the nations of the world is ultimately accomplished. Still the Truth remains; that only the blood of the perfect sacrifice, Jesus Christ, can purchase our pardon from guilt and sin. What follows does not, and cannot change that fact in the least.

God often reveals truth by teaching lessons. This is especially true of the Sanctuary services and Feasts as described in Exodus and Leviticus. We have discovered that every action by a priest, every piece of furniture, every nuance of word or requirement of action has meaning far beyond that which is currently understood about the Sanctuary service in the wider Christian church. It should be obvious (prima fascia) that God, throughout the Sanctuary Service, is trying to teach the Children of Israel about Himself and about what is going to be done (in the future) on their behalf. The Feasts and the order in which God gave them to Israel presents a format whereby it would have been possible for them to view the entire process of the salvation of the Kingdom of Heaven, and the bringing of the repentant out of the nations of the world, from beginning to end. God gave Israel two choices (roads). Some of the promises (prophecies that many erroneously still believe will come to pass) He gave only to ancient Israel with the restriction that those prophecies would be fulfilled IF they choose to keep His Commandments/covenant. This is the Life Road. But since they chose not to keep the Commandments thereby choosing the Death Road these promises have never, and will never, come to pass. Had literal Israel learned these lessons the Kingdom of Heaven would have already been established on this earth and the prophecies that were sealed up in Daniel would have never had to be made known.

Spiritual discourse and Biblical interpretation can be nebulous and uncertain, especially when involving prophecy of the End Time. Yet, several things can be stated with certainty and we have tried to keep these in mind as we researched and wrote this article. Also, we have diligently sought to eliminate our own personal biases and prejudices, seeking only the Truth without the affect of a specific point of view. Please include this viewpoint in your own study and let the Holy Spirit guide you into (all) Truth.

Several things are critical to the understanding of what is to follow: God knows the end from the beginning (Is. 41: 4, Rev. 22: 13); Timing is critical to God (Dan. 12: 6); Prophecy was given to be understood (Dan. 12: 10, Amos 3: 7); God uses Scripture as a teaching tool; and 'Absolute Truth' is essential to salvation (John 12: 35-36, and Rev. 22: 15).

The two most important articles in the Sanctuary for the human race are the Alter of Incense within the Holy Place and the Alter of Sacrifice in the courtyard outside the Temple. In Revelation, reference is made to both of these:

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, "Rise and measure the temple of God, the alter, and those who worship there. But leave out the court, which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Nations. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. Rev. 11: 1-3.

This passage clearly indicates two judgments (measurements): one for the Kingdom of Heaven, the other for the 'Nations'. The ‘Alter’ mentioned here is the Alter of Incense that is located in the Temple of God in Heaven. The outer court is where the Alter of Sacrifice is located and represents the earth. We can see that the judgment of the Kingdom of Heaven comes before the judgment of the Nations. The fact that there are two different alters denotes that two different types of judgments occur for two different categories of people. The judgment of the Holy Nation (the Kingdom of Heaven) occurs first, and then the judgment of the other Nations occurs after the 42 months of the trampling of the Holy City.

But that is not the whole story by far for before judgment is passed on anyone, either inside or outside of the Temple, the offer for atonement from sin must be made. This is a very important point; God is absolutely fair in His dealings with humanity and will NOT pass judgment on anyone who has not had the opportunity to make a choice. As God gave Israel a choice, so too He gives the opportunity to choose to those who will be alive and experience the events of the ‘End’ as depicted in Daniel and Revelation.

See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. … I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that which I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live. Deut. 30: 15,19.

God wants everyone to choose life, which is why He provides atonement for sin in full measure for all humanity. Atonement in the sanctuary service was demonstrated as a function of the sacrifice of innocent animals to which the sins of the congregation or individual were transferred. Several requirements were necessary for the proper transfer of sin away from the sinner, be they individual or the corporate body. ONLY the blood of the innocent (sinless) could make atonement for sin.

Corporate sin(s), the sins of the entire camp of Israel, were transferred on a daily basis by the blood during the morning and evening sacrifices. The lamb was slain on the north side of the Altar of Sacrifice (bronze altar) and the blood was then taken by a priest into the Holy Place and put onto the horns of the Altar of Sacrifice (golden altar). This lamb had to be at least a year old male and in a spotless condition (Ex. 29). The word in Greek for this type of a lamb is 'AREN' or 'ARNON' (Strongs #721).

In Leviticus 16 we can read about the law of Atonement. Once a year, on the Day of Atonement, two spotless goats were set aside, one as the Goat of the Lord, and the other as the Goat of Removal (scapegoat). The High Priest would act on the behalf of God. He could do this because of the bull, which he sacrificed for himself and his family.

It is interesting to note that before the High Priest could perform any function in the sanctuary he had to wash himself in the laver that had been constructed out of mirrors collected from the women who worked at the temple. This washing in the laver thus represented both baptism (justification) and being born (sanctification) of the Spirit aka the 'Woman' found in Revelation 12. (No, the Woman of Rev. 12 can't be the church because the church was NEVER in heaven!) The laver was in the form of a bowl, which represented the womb.

It is also interesting to note that all of the words for "spirit" found in the Old Testament are feminine in character. In John 3 Jesus told Nicodemus that one could not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven unless he was born of the water and of the Spirit. This indicates an outward and an inward cleansing. Therefore (just as Jesus told Nicodemus (God taught the same lesson by not allowing the High Priest to enter the Holy Place without making himself clean.

In Leviticus 16 you can read that the High Priest then killed the Goat of the Lord and it’s blood was then taken (in a bowl) into the Most Holy place and sprinkled seven times at the front of the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant; then seven times before the Ark, between the Ark and the Altar of Incense; then it was placed seven times on the Horns of the Altar of Incense.

This then created a blood trail from the Mercy Seat to the Alter of Sacrifice, thus connecting them together. Then the High Priest (still acting in the place of God) would go to the outer court and wipe the blood from his hands onto the Goat of Removal, which was then lead into the wilderness (World/Nations) and released. Please note: The High Priest acted in the place of God in sacrificing the perfect, spotless, and INNOCENT animal. For whom was this process designed to make atonement? Was it designed to take away the sins of the world (wilderness/Nations) - as we have been told?

[Musicman1228]

Should I stop. There is still a ways to go and I don't want to bore anyone to death.

[phkrause]

No, as long as you do it in small sections. Than we can read it and take it in. But if you make them to long than no one will take the time to read it. I guess I shouldn't talk for everybody.

pk

[Musicman1228]

Thanks pkrause. I will wait a while for readers to catch up, and then if you want me to continue I will.

[Musicman1228]

By the way, there is nothing like a little Friday night reading to keep you from falling asleep too soon.

[phkrause]

sounds good musicman1228.

pk

[Musicman1228]

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him may not perish but have everlasting life. John 3: 16 (Please note that this verse does not say; "will not perish"!)

This text seems to indicate that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross was for the whole world. Yet if we go to the beginning and end of this discourse of Christ with Nicodemus we note an apparent contradiction.

Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of the water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." John 3: 5

Here we see that in order to be saved you must be IN the Kingdom of God, not in the kingdom of the world/Nations. So how do you KNOW that you are in the Kingdom of Heaven?

And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the TRUTH comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God. John 3: 19-21

Christ is saying that by your deeds you show evidence of the kingdom to which you belong. Christ’s sacrifice is not for those who do not show the evidence of their Spirit Birth by their deeds, although many would argue that it is only by the grace of God that you can be saved. The challenge then is to show where any grace of God can be found in the Ten Virgin prophecy of Matthew 25.

The only people who were required to make atonement for their sins on the Day of Atonement were the children of Israel, who at that time were also called the Kingdom of Heaven. Atonement for sin had not been required of the nations surrounding Israel. The sins of the camp were removed by the Goat of Removal and taken into the wilderness. The wilderness represents the nations and sin was to be returned where it originated.

Because the entire Sanctuary service was only a lesson tool used by God to teach Israel the process of how sin will be removed from the Kingdom of Heaven. No one in literal Israel actually had their sins removed from them during this process. The sins of the individual Israelite and the sins of the camp had actually never been removed since the actual redemption sacrifice was not to happen for many years. (The blood of animals cannot remove sin.) Their sin was imputed to the real sacrifice, the Lamb of God.

At the time of the actual sacrifice of the Son of God the Nation of Israel (then the Kingdom of Heaven) did not recognize it nor did they accept it. Israel could have accepted the marriage covenant that Christ offered them but they didn’t. This is why the trusteeship of the Covenant was removed from Israel at the end of the 70 weeks (490 years beginning in 457 BC and ending in 33 AD) and transferred to the budding group called 'THE WAY'. Paul had not yet coined the term ‘Christian’. (It is a wild canard that the final week of the 70 was cut out and placed at the end of time, as the Evangelical Christian church believes.) Only after the actual sacrifice had been made, when Christ paid the penalty for Adam's sin and thereby the offspring of Adam who became and become righteous as the people of the Kingdom of Heaven who believed in Him and who had accepted His atonement, have their sins forgiven.

However, confusion of this process caused the Religious leaders of Israel at that time to make the process mysterious which kept the real meaning from the people, so much so, that after a time, the process became the result, instead of pointing to the result, the Messiah.

Atonement for the forgiven sin that is placed on the Alter of Incense is ONLY for the Kingdom of Heaven. The sacrifice of Christ, the spotless Lamb of God (“Arnon”), was only for Israel, the Kingdom of Heaven at that time. But because they chose the 'death road' by rejecting Him as their atoning Sacrifice, the way was opened for all who would to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven by being born again of the water and the Spirit.

The parallel today is that in the Sanctuary in Heaven Christ is atoning only for the Kingdom of Heaven not for the world. Who then is the Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven today? What mechanism (if any) is there for the atonement of the sins of the nations from the world? Is there anything in Scripture that points to how the atonement for the sins of the ‘World’ is accomplished? (‘World’ is defined as anyone who is outside the Kingdom of Heaven). Please study closely the following:

"Speak to Aaron and to his sons, saying; this is the law of the sin offering, in the place where the burnt offering is killed, the sin offering shall be killed before the Lord. It is most holy. The priest who offers it for sin shall eat it. In a holy place it shall be eaten, in the court of the tabernacle of meeting". Lev. 6: 25-26

"But no sin offering from which any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of meeting, to make atonement in the holy place, shall be eaten. It shall be burned in the fire". Lev. 6: 30

Here we see described the requirement for the sin offering. It was to be killed in the same place where the burnt offering was killed, on the Altar of Sacrifice in the outer court of the tabernacle. If the blood of the sacrifice was taken into the tabernacle and placed on the Altar of Incense, the offering was burned. That is because Christ was represented by this sacrifice and His sacrifice was complete for the Kingdom of Heaven. Nothing else was needed.

For the sin offering the sinner placed his hands on the sacrifice, confessed his sins, which were symbolically transferred to the animal. The "sinner" then killed the sin offering at the Altar of Sacrifice. The priest did not kill this sacrifice, the individual sinner did. Then the priest would put some of the blood of the sacrifice into a bowl and put some blood on each of the horns of the Altar. He then would pour out the blood onto the ground in front of the Altar. Then the priest would eat part of the sacrifice, thus showing the sinner that sins that he had confessed over the sacrifice had been transferred to the priest.

[Robert]

....This text seems to indicate that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross was for the whole world.

Read

[Musicman1228]

And Moses said to Aaron, "Go to the altar, offer your sin offering and your burnt offering, and make atonement for yourself and for the people. Offer the offering of the people, and make atonement for them, as the Lord commanded." Lev. 9: 7

Then Moses made careful inquiry about the goat of the sin offering, and here it was--burned up. And he was angry with Eleazar and Ithamar, the sons of Aaron who were left, saying,

"Why have you not eaten the sin offering in a holy pace, since it is most holy, and God has given it to you to bear the guilt of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the Lord?" Lev. 10: 16-17

When an offering was made by an individual on the Alter of Sacrifice it was to be the Priest who was to bear the guilt of that person before the Lord, as signified by the eating of the offering in a holy place. The blood of that offering was NOT carried inside the Temple but was kept outside and placed on the horns of the Alter in the outer court and also poured at its base.

Please understand this; the Alter of Sacrifice in the outer court was used for a different purpose than the Alter of Incense that was within the Temple. The animal sacrifice for the Alter of Incense that was inside the Temple was killed by the priest and was for the Kingdom of Heaven. It’s blood was taken to and placed on the horns of the Alter of Incense inside the Temple, then brought out and placed on the horns of the Alter of Sacrifice. On the annual Day of Atonement, this Alter was cleansed of the forgiven sins of the Kingdom of Heaven that had been placed on it throughout the year (as described above).

The animal sacrifice for the Alter of Sacrifice was killed by an individual for his or her own sins or for the sins of their family. After roasting part of the sacrifice on the fire of the Alter, the priest would eat part of the sacrifice to show that the individual’s sins had been transferred to the priest, wherein atonement had been made for the individual and his family. The priest then took the blood and placed it on the horns of the Alter in the outer court and poured the rest at the base of the Alter. It is interesting to note that nowhere in Scripture does it talk about the Alter of Sacrifice being cleansed, either on the Day of Atonement or at any other time.

If the atonement that takes place at the Alter of Incense is only for the Kingdom of Heaven then for whom is the atonement of the Alter of Sacrifice? What is the role of the priest in this process? Nowhere in Scripture do we see the Alter of Sacrifice being cleansed on the Day of Atonement.

Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make and end of sins, to make reconciliation for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy. Dan. 9: 24

The Kingdom of Heaven had been literal Israel (Jews) up until the end of the 70 weeks, which had been given to Israel by God as a probationary period for their judgment. One good reason that we know that Israel failed the test and that the trusteeship of the Covenant was removed from them is that none of the events pursuant to the fulfillment of those prophecies has ever occurred, nor will they ever occur, as the time for their fulfillment is now long past. Nowhere in Scripture does God ever separate or divide timing in a prophecy. When Jesus Christ was sacrificed (executed by His Father) on the cross He paid the penalty for the transgression of the Law of God by Adam. Yet because there was still 3 1/2 years left in the 70 weeks prophecy Israel could still have fulfilled their part in the prophecy. If that had happened then the events that John the Baptist preached about would have occurred causing the end of time.

However, none of these prophetic fulfillments took place because Israel failed the test, their probation closed and the Covenant was then to transfer (at the proper time) to the Kingdom that will last forever, the "rock cut out not by human hands". Transgression was not yet finished, sin was not brought to an end. Iniquity was not reconciled, everlasting righteousness was not brought in. Vision and prophecy about the ‘time of the end’ was not sealed up forever. The Most Holy One (Jesus) was not anointed as King.

The reason why the understanding about end time events found in Daniel was not sealed up is that prior to the end of the 70 weeks in 33 AD Israel still had an opportunity to change direction and fulfill the purpose for which God set them apart from the world. Since this period of time has come to an end the understanding of the prophetic events as detailed in Daniel and Revelation will be made known, but only by the 'Wise". None of the wicked will know or understand.

The ending of the 70 weeks for literal Israel ushered in a long period of time when there was no Kingdom of Heaven on earth in spite of the efforts of the early Christian church and Paul. Much later Constantine converted to (false) Christianity in an attempt to solidify the Christian church under one ruler, and to provide the basis for tolerance for everyone, Jews, Christians and Pagans alike. He formed the counsel at Laodicea that placed into the Scriptures the writings of those whom the counsel believed to be acceptable to the majority of "Christianity", thereby giving us the New Testament. Is it any wonder the early church flourished? This new church and its canon was founded not on the desire to give truth to the world but on the need for a political solution to the ever expanding problem (as Constantine saw it) of the Empire of Rome being fractured by many and disparate religious beliefs.

In the centuries that followed truth within the Christian church lost it’s fervor and became embedded in bureaucracy. Generation succeeded generation, each believing that ‘they’ were the living in the ‘time of the end,’ that ‘they’ had all the Truth, and that they were the Kingdom of Heaven. Yet the ‘time of the end’ did not come. There still was/is the promise that in the last days God would bring forth a group of people (found in prophecy) that had real ‘Truth’ and who would become the Kingdom of Heaven.

[Musicman1228]

From here to the end of this presentation is when it gets very interesting and very controversial. What follows is based on what has come before and must be understood in the entire context. I'm sorry this is so long but I wanted to be as thorough as possible in presenting something as challenging as what you are about to read. If you are not going to read thoroughly and well and completely then my suggestion is that you don't read any further. What has come before is, with the exception of a few things, very much in keeping with normal Adventist theology (hopefully presented in an understandable way). What follows uses Scripture and prophecy in a very literal way, and will cause many of you to wonder about my sanity. Yet, it is what it is; a complete examination of a complex issue that demonstrates the way salvation is typed in the Old Testament and anti-typed in the New and in prophecy.

[Musicman1228]

And the Kingdom of Heaven

Then (At that time) the Kingdom of Heaven will be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five (who had more faith by the way) were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. Matt. 25: 1-5

This story is not just a story but also a prophecy that tells us that there will, indeed, be a Kingdom of Heaven at the end (last generation). But when does this happen, at what time? At the time when the Master comes to a servant that is either Faithful and Wise or Wicked. (Matt. 24: 42) This servant has a decision to make; will he remain faithful or will be become unfaithful. The description of the Faithful and Wise servant is that he is feeding his fellow servants their food at the proper time. The description of the wicked servant is that he is eating and drinking with drunkards and beating his fellow servants. It also states in Matt. 24: 48 that the wicked servant says in his heart that his master is going to stay away a long time. How can this servant say what he said unless he actually knows the time that his master is going to come?

The parable of the Ten Virgins describes the Kingdom of Heaven at the time of the 'coming like a thief'. Christ gave the exact characteristics that would apply only to the Kingdom of Heaven at the time the Master appeared to the “Head of the Household” and his fellow servants. The Ten Virgins or Bridesmaids (the Kingdom of Heaven) would have already gone out to meet the Bridegroom. When He did not come they all went to sleep with their torches still burning. When awakened by the Faithful and wise servant and fellow servants (which we will see are the 144,000) they would either have oil for their lamps or not have oil. This indicates a separation but not a judgment as they either have oil or don’t have oil when they are wake up.

Five Bridesmaids recognize truth when they hear it, the other five are so set in their ways that they, believing that they have ALL THEY NEED, shut their ears and eyes to any new truth. Is there anywhere else in Scripture where judgment is indicated for the Kingdom of Heaven before anyone else?

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying,

"Rise and measure the temple of God, the alter, and those who worship there. But leave out the court, which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. Rev. 11: 1-3.

This passage seems to show a judgment for ‘the Temple, for the alter and for the worshipers there’, before the judgment of the 'outer court' takes place. This ‘outer court’ is given over to the nations who are judged after the Kingdom of Heaven, which is described in verse 1. This, coupled with what we know about the Sanctuary and the Day of Atonement, should clearly allow us to understand that judgment comes first to God’s Holy Nation, the Kingdom of Heaven, through the blood of the sacrificial Lamb, Jesus Christ. It is only for the Kingdom of Heaven that this sacrifice is made, not for the world. Yes, those in the world have a choice, a choice to be IN this Kingdom of Heaven, or not!

But we also know that the priests "bear the guilt of the congregation and make atonement for them” that is, the rest of the world. Anyone not in the Kingdom of Heaven would then be considered to be among all Nations and of all Tribes, as found in Revelation 7: 9. Therefore, probation is closed for the Kingdom of Heaven before the great time of trouble. (Judgment for the Ten Virgins occurs before the Time of Trouble, see Revelation 7: 9)

Who are the priests and where do they come from? Lets look again at Matt. 24 and the two servants described there.

Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them their food at the proper time.

Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Assuredly, I say to you that He will make him ruler over all His possessions. But if that servant turns evil and says in his heart, "My master is going to stay away a long time", and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for Him and at an hour that he is not aware of, and will cut him to pieces and cast him out with the hypocrites, where there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matt. 24: 45-51

In this passage we see a household. The faithful and wise servant and the fellow servants are in the same household. The message that the faithful and wise servant has is a message only for a proper time. Not just anytime but the right time. This is a time when the rest of the servants must be hungry for it. This is not just the "Gospel of Jesus" message because that message is good anytime. It has to be some other message. The message is in fact the "Gospel of the Kingdom" from the great commission.

"And this gospel of the Kingdom, (about the Kingdom), will be preached in [to] all the World as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come". Matt. 24:14 (Emphasis added)

Again, please understand this it is NOT the gospel of Christ (although that is included because He is the King of the Kingdom of Heaven) that is to be preached to the nations (world), it is the message of the Kingdom of Heaven that will be preaching at the time of the end. Christ calls the faithful and wise servant "blessed" for presenting the "Gospel of the Kingdom" to his fellow servants, and is greatly rewarded for doing so when his master returns.

However, Christ will punish that servant if he chooses to become wicked and not only stops telling his fellow servants about the gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, but goes back on what he has been teaching them and joins with those who have rejected the message. Here we see two choices, one for life and one for death, just as God gave Israel. So, what is this message and why is it so important?

The "Gospel of the Kingdom" message is that there is just one Kingdom of Heaven on earth at the time of the end, and that in order to see God you must join and be a member of this spiritual Kingdom. Christ spoke of this to Nicodemus in John 3:5 when He said that only through the water and the Spirit could anyone enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Christ was teaching that the only way to eternal life was through entry into the Kingdom of Heaven.

This Kingdom (now spiritual Israel) is defined specifically in Scripture as having a special purpose to fulfill before the end comes. This Kingdom is God’s Kingdom because, like ancient Israel of old, they profess to have the truth and profess to abide by this truth. But just like Israel they are only paying lip service to the truth, which God in His mercy has granted them. In Matt. 25 they are described as sleeping bridesmaids. In Rev. 3 (Sardis) they are described as having a name that is alive, but is spiritually dead (asleep).

[Musicman1228]

When one reads from the Bible about what Jesus taught about the one lost sheep you come to an understanding that it is the flock that represents all of those that go to heaven. The lost sheep had to get back to the flock. Therefore, even though there may be some type of a personal relationship with God one MUST be in the Kingdom of Heaven to realize salvation and eternal life.

I know your works, that you are nether cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold not hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, having become wealthy (in spiritual matters), and have need of nothing’-- and do not now that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked--. Rev. 3: 16-17

Could ‘rich and wealthy’ be the same as ‘grace and faith’? Perhaps since the One Hundred and Forty Four Thousand and the Five Wise Virgins will be living and presenting the real truth during the last days grace and faith will not be needed because they will be, and are, the first fruits of truth. The Kingdom of Heaven is in bad shape at this time, yet they are still required to carry the Gospel of the Kingdom to the world.

Do they have to do this on their own without God’s intervention? Clearly the “Time of Trouble” and the “Trumpets” are God's intervention and will wake up the Nations of the world (get the Bride ready for the Groom) for the coming in the clouds. However, in the story of the talents given to the three men (Mat. 25: 14-30) the Master did not intervene and the three were on their own to make their own decisions and bear the consequences.

And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Rev. 12: 17

It specifies in this text that the remnant, the Kingdom of Heaven, is a corporate body of people who profess to keep all TEN of the Commandments and have the testimony of Jesus.

Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron and her Child was caught up to God and His throne. Rev. 12: 1,2,5

This passage shows that the last of the offspring of the woman (who is in Heaven so it MUST be the Holy Spirit) are brothers and sisters of the male Child, who is Jesus Christ. They become offspring of the woman in the same way that Christ became the first born of the woman, i.e. by being born of the Spirit. Clearly this woman CANNOT be the Church. The church founded on earth has NEVER been in Heaven! This text would indicate that the family in Heaven consists of God as the Father, the Holy Spirit as the Mother, and Jesus Christ as the Son! All of the Hebrew words found in the Old Testament for the Holy Spirit are feminine in gender.

Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of the water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God". John 3: 5

Christ told Nicodemus that entry into the kingdom of Heaven is only by birth, Holy Spirit birth. (Not by adoption as some like Paul have proposed.) Since it is the Woman (Rev. 12: 1) who gives birth to both Christ and the Remnant this Woman MUST be the Holy Spirit. The last of Her offspring are then the real Kingdom of Heaven.

Who then is the Kingdom of Heaven today? (If we are indeed in the “last days”.) We have a number of clues from Scripture that will help us confirm the answer. (Ref. Matt. 24 and 25, Rev. 3:17, Rev. 12:17, Dan. 8:14)

• They all studied the 2300 day/year prophecy

• They went out to meet the Bridegroom on a specific date at a specific time

• When the Bridegroom didn’t come as expected they ALL went to sleep

• They are the only group to have gone out to meet the Bridegroom based on the light of prophecy (lamps)

• They are the only group to come out of the other churches, or the Bride of Christ

• They profess to keep all Ten Commandments and have the Testimony of Jesus

• They believe so strongly that they have all the truth that they don’t notice that they are wretched, poor, miserable, blind and naked

• They are spiritually sleeping today except for the few (as found in church of Sardis, Rev. 3), and these few are those mentioned in the church of Philadelphia (the 144,000)

• They match all the characteristics of the seven churches found in Rev. 2 and 3.

• They become a Nation cut out without human hands at the end of the 2300 day/year prophecy - (1843).

Taken together these to indicate that the Kingdom of Heaven today can only be the Seventh-day Adventist Church. If this is correct then the Seventh-day Adventist Church will be atoned for and judged before the rest of the world. This puts the Seventh-day Adventist Church in a very tenuous and precarious spiritual situation. Being in the spiritual state in which they currently find themselves this church would appear to be in big trouble.

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost

May I suggest, resting in Him is accomplished as a result of not resisting His abiding presence.

"Be still and know that I am God."

It is through claiming the great gift of Christ's sacrifice, (the merits of His blood), that we enter into the stillness needed to heed the call of God.

Your thoughts Brother?

Mark

Most assuredly!

[Musicman1228]

Both the faithful and wise servant and the fellow servants come from this group, so do both the foolish and wise bridesmaids. We see a separation within the Kingdom of Heaven as the five wise bridesmaids go into the wedding feast while the five foolish are left out in the cold with the door shut in their faces. This indicates a close of probation for the Kingdom of Heaven before the close of probation that occurs for the world at the seventh trumpet.

These two groups, the servants and wise bridesmaids, appear to be the prophets and priests that act on behalf of the nations, to bear their guilt and to make their atonement. They can make atonement for those who are seeking the truth who are of the world at the Alter of Sacrifice (the earth) ONLY because they have been made perfect and holy by the blood of Christ and His atonement for them at the Alter of Incense in Heaven, and by personally completing the process of sanctification.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony, which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Then a White robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who would be killed as they were, was completed. Rev. 6: 9-11

The altar in this passage is the Alter of Sacrifice, the Alter in the outer court-the Altar for the nations. The blood that is poured out UNDER the Altar (for the nations) represents a sacrifice and is poured out in exactly the same location where the blood was poured after a sin offering in the ancient Sanctuary Service. These souls could not be a sin offering unless they were sinless. The only blood that can wash away sin is the blood of the sinless, those without blame. These are the saints and prophets, members of the Kingdom of Heaven by virtue of the blood of the Lamb (Christ), that are in turn sacrificed as the sin offering for the world.

Why would these under the Alter need to be given white robes? They must have already had on white robes in order to be an acceptable sacrifice. They were given white robes a second time because they had given up their own clean robes for those in the world, and accepted and taken their guilt upon themselves. Then, being blameless (having no guilt of their own) some of them are sacrificed to bear away the guilt of those who join the Kingdom of Heaven from the congregation (world) and make atonement for them during the time of trouble.

Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?" He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He said to him, "Feed My lambs." John 21: 15

Three times this question was asked and answered. Each time Jesus ended with "Feed My lambs." The word in Greek for lambs is Arnion, the diminutive form of the word Arnon (or Aren), which can be literally translated ‘lambkin’ or ‘kin (brother or sister) of the male lamb.’ This is very important to confirming the role of the Kingdom of Heaven as sacrifices.

[Musicman1228]

In Revelation John uses two Greek words that have both been translated Lamb. The words are Arnon, meaning ‘male lamb at least a year old’; and Arnion, the diminutive form of Arnon, which means ‘lambkin’, or lamb less than a year old. Now why would John use two different words to mean the same thing, as is found in all Bible translations. Why didn’t he just use the word ‘Arnon’? The reason is that he meant to use these words exactly where he did to convey a specific meaning.

These (the ten kings v.12-13) will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful. Rev. 17: 14

The first use of the word ‘Lamb’ is actually the word Arnion or lambkin, meaning the kin of the Lamb. The second use of Lamb is the word Arnon meaning ‘a lamb at least a year old.’ This Lamb is Christ. The first lamb indicates his brothers and sisters. This is verified by the following:

And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Rev. 12: 17

As we have seen earlier the ‘rest of her offspring’ are the brothers and sisters of Christ. So in this context the following literal translation makes sense.

These will make war with the lambkin, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him (the lambkin) are called, chosen, and faithful. Rev. 17: 14

The ten kings, under the direction of the dragon, make war on the lambkin (the kin or the Lamb of God) and the Lamb overcomes the ten kings because He is King of kings and Lord of lords. Satan cannot make war on the God of Heaven so he makes war on the brothers and sisters of the Lamb who is Jesus Christ. God allows the dragon, via the ten kings, to kill some of the sinless lambkin that act as the atoning sacrifice for the world that did not become part of the kingdom of Heaven before the Great Tribulation started.

Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?" And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lambkin." Rev. 7: 14

The word Lamb in this passage is translated from the word Arnion, or lambkin. This indicates that indeed the blood of the lambkin (Christ’s brothers and sisters) acts as the cleansing agent for the sins of those who are alive during the great tribulation.

Yet the most interesting mistranslation is yet to come. In this passage we see a bride to whom it was granted to be arrayed in ‘fine linen, clean and bright’. Notice particularly who was not involved in this act:

And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Rev. 19: 8

The person who was not involved directly in providing the robe of righteousness to the bride is Jesus Christ. The passage states that it is the righteous acts of the saints that provide the robe. In verse 7 and in verse 9 we also see the word lamb. This is the word Arnion or lambkin, not Arnon (or Aren). In context then we can see that the bride is not the bride of the Lamb, but this bride is the bride of the ‘lambkin’. The righteous acts of sacrifice of the Lambkin provide the robe of righteousness for the Bride, who are those who came out of (from) the great tribulation. In Greek the nominative of the word used to indicate singular or plural and gender follows the context of the noun for which it applies. The same word is used for him, her, them and they, depending on the noun used. Therefore, the corrected translation would need to be:

Let us be glad and rejoice and give them glory, for the marriage of the lambkin has come, and their wife (bride) has made herself ready. And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said to me, "Write: Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the lambkin. Rev. 19: 7-9

Christ, through His blood, makes atonement for the sins of the Kingdom of Heaven, who is His bride (via the marriage covenant). They are made spotless by the blood of the Lamb, Arnon. They are now sinless, and because of that they are asked by Christ to function for the world the same way He functioned for them, as a sinless sacrifice for the sins of the world. So, in the same way as the Kingdom of Heaven becomes the bride of the Lamb now those in the world that accept the truth (who come out of the tribulation) become the bride of the lambkin, the Kingdom of Heaven; because it is by their sacrifice that they (those from the rest of the world out of the tribulation) have been made sinless. The blood sacrifice of Christ is passed on to them via the blood sacrifice of the lambkin. It is still Christ’s sacrifice that saves all who repent from the world.

To summarize: There are two atonements, two Alters and two sacrifices. One atonement, one Alter and one sacrifice for the kingdom of Heaven, which occurs first before the start of the Great Tribulation. Another atonement, another Alter, and another kind of sacrifice occurs second and is for those accepting the truth during the Great Tribulation; who were in the kingdom of the world but now are in the Kingdom of Heaven. The first atonement is based on the blood of the Lamb. The second atonement is based on the blood of the lambkin (who are sealed by the blood of the Lamb). This is all part of the incredible plan for the Restoration of the Kingdom of Heaven, soon to take place.

[Nan]

Musicman, I have not followed this very closely and my knowledge of Greek, old or new, is practically zero.

However I do know and speak English.

Lambkin in English does NOT mean relatives or associates of a lamb.

One example of a dictionary definition

Quote

lamb⋅kin  /ˈlæmkɪn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [lam-kin] Show IPA

Use lambkin in a Sentence

–noun 1. a little lamb.

2. a person who is exceptionally sweet, young, and innocent, as a small child.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:

1570–80; lamb + -kin Dictionary.com Unabridged

Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.

Cite This Source |Link To lambkin

Unquote

If you want your argument to be logical, perhaps check that what you

mean by a word is the same as everyone else understands that word to mean.

[Robert]

When an offering was made by an individual on the Alter of Sacrifice it was to be the Priest who was to bear the guilt....

You're living in the past symbols....Come to the NT, NC:

Hebrews 10:1 The law [Torah] is only a shadow of the good things that are coming--not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4 because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; 6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased.

7 Then I said, 'Here I am--it is written about me in the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God.'" 8 First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). 9 Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will [by His doing & dying], we have been [past tense] made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. ...

19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus [His doing & dying], 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body....

We are complete "in Christ"

Rob

[Robert]

There are two atonements,

Heresy....Sounds like what Paul calls "glorying in the flesh"....The only way to heaven is faith in the doing & dying of Christ.....Any other method comes from hell and is linked to "the man of sin"....Like I said, heresy!

[Matt25OilCrisis]

Thanks Musicman1228! Your time and efforts are appreciated. Plenty of food for thought for those of us that don't already know everything we need or wish to know!

[John317]

In Revelation John uses two Greek words that have both been translated Lamb. The words are Arnon, meaning ‘male lamb at least a year old’; and Arnion, the diminutive form of Arnon, which means ‘lambkin’, or lamb less than a year old. Now why would John use two different words to mean the same thing, as is found in all Bible translations. Why didn’t he just use the word ‘Arnon’? The reason is that he meant to use these words exactly where he did to convey a specific meaning.

These (the ten kings v.12-13) will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful. Rev. 17: 14

The first use of the word ‘Lamb’ is actually the word Arnion or lambkin, meaning the kin of the Lamb.

The Apostle John only uses one Greek word for "lamb" in the book of Revelation, and that word is arnion. He uses it 29 times.

It never means "kin of the lamb." It means "young lamb, little lamb, lamb, sheep."

Can you give the reference, such as a Greek lexicon or Greek dictionary, for where you are getting this information?

Quote:

The second use of Lamb is the word Arnon meaning ‘a lamb at least a year old.’

You need to quote the verse where you believe a different Greek word for "sheep" is being used. What verse uses the word you are talking about here? As said before, all words in Revelation translated "lamb" are from a single word in Greek, arnion. It is also used in John 21: 15.

Luke 10: 3 uses the word areen. That is its only occurrence in the NT.

The only other word translated "sheep" is amnos. It is used 4 times in the NT, and none occur in the book of Revelation.

[John317]

And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Rev. 19: 8

The person who was not involved directly in providing the robe of righteousness to the bride is Jesus Christ. The passage states that it is the righteous acts of the saints that provide the robe. In verse 7 and in verse 9 we also see the word lamb. This is the word Arnion or lambkin, not Arnon (or Aren). In context then we can see that the bride is not the bride of the Lamb, but this bride is the bride of the ‘lambkin’. The righteous acts of sacrifice of the Lambkin provide the robe of righteousness for the Bride, who are those who came out of (from) the great tribulation. In Greek the nominative of the word used to indicate singular or plural and gender follows the context of the noun for which it applies. The same word is used for him, her, them and they, depending on the noun used.

Musicman, you show here that you don't understand anything about Greek.

What is "nominative" case? It usually indicates the subject of the sentence. Nominative has nothing to do with anything here. The word we're talking about, tou arniou, is Genitive case. It is possessive. So is the pronoun, autou.

There is no condition under which a singular third person masculine pronoun should be translated as a plural pronoun. That never occurs anywhere in the entire NT.

What you say here simply makes no sense, and merely demonstrates that you do not know what you are talking about.

Quote:

Therefore, the corrected translation would need to be:

Let us be glad and rejoice and give them glory, for the marriage of the lambkin has come, and their wife (bride) has made herself ready.

This is false. It cannot possibly be translated as "their wife". The Greek pronoun "autou" is NEVER translated as "their." autou is singular. On the other hand, the word "their" is plural, and if the writer meant to say "their," he would have used the third personal plural genitive pronoun, autown.

autou MUST always be translated either as masculine or neuter singular: "his" or "its." In this verse it is masculine, "his."

Please quote a single translation which reads this way. The reason you cannot find any translation which reads that way is that it is IMPOSSIBLE.

You have already demonstrated that you do not know anything about Greek, yet you claim to be able to give us "the corrected translation."

Your so-called "translation" is absolutely false. I urge you to stop posting false "translations" of the Scriptures on the forum.

[John317]

It would be best to accept the reading as given in all good, standard translations. Notice they all agree in their reading of Rev. 19: 7.

In all due respect, it gives me the chills when I think of what is being taught in "that class," especially in the light of your and Dr. Rich's analysis of Rev. 19: 7.

You said:

Quote:

The word translated 'his' is Strongs #846-Autos and can mean 'his', 'hers', 'theirs' and: proper personal pronoun) of the other persons:--her, it(-self), one, the other, (mine) own, said, (self-), the) same, ((him-, my-, thy- )self, (your-)selves, she, that, their(-s), them(-selves), there(-at, - by, -in, -into, -of, -on, -with), they, (these) things, this (man), those, together, very, which.

Remember that we should be talking about the word "autou" in Rev. 19: 7.

You, however, are talking about the word "autos," which is also a pronoun but it is nominative.

"autou" is genitive.

The Greek word for "theirs" is auton, or autwn, to be distinguished from the third person accusative, auton (which is spelled differently in Greek, but I don't have a Greek key board). :-(

"This man" is outos, a demonstrative masculine pronoun. It can be translated as "the same" or "this one" or "this man" or even "he." See the first part of John 1: 2, 7, for examples of outos.

When autos is used in the attributive position it means "the same."

When autos is used in the predicate position it means "self."

For instance, in Romans 8: 16, it says, "The Spirit Himself...." There the Greek is, "auto to pneuma..."

Does this help give you some idea of the problem with simply quoting Strong's Concordance without knowing what it's saying?

[Musicman1228]

I would be happy to give you the citations. My information comes from the standard lexicon for Greek words and usage; Strong's Lexicon and Strong's Word Morphology. The one I use is published through E-Sword (in my case Mac Sword), and the Bible and resource modules are found at The Sword Project, all on the web. I have keyed my Strong's translations to the KJV. I also checked this out in my hard copy of Strong's Lexicon and the usage is identical.

John 21:15 -

First usage of words translated "Lambs" is Stongs's #721-721 arnion ar-nee'-on diminutive from 704; a lambkin:--lamb. The second usage of the word translated "Sheep" is Strong's #4263-probaton prob'-at-on probably neuter of a presumed derivative of 4260; something that walks forward (a quadruped), i.e. (specially), a sheep (literally or figuratively):--sheep(-fold).

As I pointed out the two words in Greek ARE NOT the same. I am saying that these two words here and in Revelation are used for a specific reason and do not indicate or imply the same thing. This is supported by the context in which they are used.

Rev. 19:7 -

"Lamb" - Strong's #721, as above. I do not see where God would have John use the two forms of the word "Lamb" interchangeably. God always means what He says and says what He means.

I thought that I was sufficiently clear in defining 'the brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ' wherein I apply the word "Arnion". There is a distinction between Jesus Christ as Arnon/Aren and His siblings Arnion. There are two Greek words that define in application two distinct entities. I do not have the language to be more clear in my explanation (if such language exists).

[Musicman1228]

Believe what you will about this, I am presenting the product of my own study and the study of others and we are solely responsible for the content. Thank you for not dismissing this out of hand because the research part of this was very time consuming, not to mention the writing.

The reason that I was so extensive is that this is a difficult concept to get the mind around. We drew our conclusions from information found in the Sanctuary Service, the Pentatuch, prophecy, and the words of Jesus. You may not agree with it but it certainly has stimulated some wonderful thought and discussion.

Remember, just because you don't believe something to be true does not make it untrue. There ARE two atonements in the Sanctuary Service in the Old Testament, there are two atonements seen in Rev.11:1-2. This is an explanation as to what those two atonements are for. I would appreciate reading alternative ideas.

[John317]

John 21:15 -

First usage of words translated "Lambs" is Stongs's #721-721 arnion ar-nee'-on diminutive from 704; a lambkin:--lamb. The second usage of the word translated "Sheep" is Strong's #4263-probaton prob'-at-on probably neuter of a presumed derivative of 4260; something that walks forward (a quadruped), i.e. (specially), a sheep (literally or figuratively):--sheep(-fold).

As I pointed out the two words in Greek ARE NOT the same. ...

Rev. 19:7 -

"Lamb" - Strong's #721, as above. I do not see where God would have John use the two forms of the word "Lamb" interchangeably. God always means what He says and says what He means.

The word for "lamb" in John 21: 15 and Rev. 19: 7 are both the same word, arnion, Strongs #721. In John 21: 15, the word is, ta arnia. It is a noun in the accusative case, plural, neuter.

Rev. 5: 6 uses the exact same word, "arnia." In fact, all of the words for "lamb" in the book of Revelation are exact same word. They are spelled a bit differently because they are different cases, or parts of speech. For instance, arniou is genitive, whereas arnio is dative. Anyone who has passed their first year of koine Greek will understand this.

Your problem is that you don't know Greek enough to understand what you are reading. You proved this in your understanding of the masculine singular pronoun, autou, where you say it should be translated as a genitive plural pronoun, "their." If the writer had intended "their," he would have written "autwn."

I suggest that you get any Greek grammar textbook and study the paradigms of the third person personal pronouns at the back of the book.