Sanctification - half full or half empty?

[Twilight]

I believe that Sky is a decent person. Anyone who teaches the Biblical truth of sanctification will come into conflict with those who wish to drag theology down to meet their experience. I read this quote at breakfast.

"Those who feel the constraining love of God do not ask for the lowest standard, but aim at perfect conformity to the will of their Redeemer." (StC)

g

Anyone who teaches the Biblical truth of sanctification will come into conflict with those who wish to drag theology down to meet their experience.

I will remember that. :-)

Mark :-)

[Woody]

Quote:

I can also state that this is what happened, as I was a member of AO at the time.

Although I am no longer a member as I was banned from there for speaking out against this in a way that upset the owner of the site.

Mark :-)

Yes. I can appreciate that the owner of the site was insistant that quotes from Ellen White be accurate and not have words added or deleted. He was quite specific to Sky in this matter. And since it was an ongoing problem ... it had to be taken care of.

People are free to check out his work. My point was only one of caution that they check out the references. When I did this and approached him .... he defended his changes. If that doesn't bother you ... then go for it.

[Woody]

Quote:

"So I will be your representative in heaven. The Father beholds not your faulty character, but He sees you as clothed in My perfection. " DA 357

Quote:

"And the world took knowledge of them that they had been with Jesus. Sinful men, repentant, pardoned, cleansed, and sanctified, were brought into partnership with God through His Son." AA 578

[Twilight]

Quote:

I can also state that this is what happened, as I was a member of AO at the time.

Although I am no longer a member as I was banned from there for speaking out against this in a way that upset the owner of the site.

Mark :-)

Yes. I can appreciate that the owner of the site was insistant that quotes from Ellen White be accurate and not have words added or deleted. He was quite specific to Sky in this matter. And since it was an ongoing problem ... it had to be taken care of.

People are free to check out his work. My point was only one of caution that they check out the references. When I did this and approached him .... he defended his changes. If that doesn't bother you ... then go for it.

That was not the reason I was banned.

I was banned because I challenged your behaviour and the owner of the site did not agree with that, or the directness with which I challenged you.

It was nothing to do with the issue with Sky.

You have either forgotten or uttered a falsehood.

Mark

[skyblue888]

Thanks Mark! To me it is the most beautiful of all! Why? because through the merits of Christ we may become partakers of His nature, a nature far above that which Adam and Eve forfeited by transgression. See The Upward Look, p.18, first parg. "Thank God for His unspeakable gift." 2 Cor.9:15.

I can better understand why Mrs. White stated that before the return of Christ, this Bible truth will become the interest that will prevail and the subject that will swallow up every other! See Review and Herald, Dec.23,1890.

It is the most stupendous truth for when accepted we are clothed with the glistening vesture of Christ's righteousness, the full armor of God, the full armour of light! Divinity and humanity are combined and then we can keep every precept of the law of God. Thus the believer becomes God's fortress which He holds in a revolted world. A soul thus kept by the heavenly agencies becomes impregnable to the assaults of Satan. See D.A.324 and A.A.11.

You want to be like little children, hanging upon the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour, and then you will be fortified. How? the angels of God will be around you as a wall of fire; the righteousness of Christ, which you claim, goes before you, and the glory of God is your rearward. God sanctify our tongues, our thoughts, our minds, that we may dwell upon heavenly themes, and that we may impart that knowledge and light to others. See E.G. White, Ms 9,1891.

sky

[Woody]

Quote:

"Christ has said, "I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified." [John 17:19.] He wanted his disciples to be sanctified, and he made himself their example, that they might follow him." CE 175

Quote:

"His Voice is also revealed in His providential workings; and it will be recognized if we do not separate our souls from Him by walking in our own ways, doing according to our own wills, and following the promptings of an unsanctified heart, until the senses have become so confused that eternal things are not discerned, and the voice of Satan is so disguised that it is accepted as the Voice of God." 5 Testimonies, 512.

[skyblue888]

Your avatar reminds me of one of Mrs. White's dreams she had depicting Satan as the conductor of this train in which the church and the whole world was riding in. Satan was driving them all to perdition at a fast speed.

[John317]

You have a good point. I think it's appropriate. It seems to say, "Who cares what's in front-- full speed ahead."

[Woody]

Quote:

The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place.--2SM 380

[Dr. Rich]

"The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place.--2SM 380"

Hmmm--I suppose the writer of this didn't understand the process for sifting wheat--but to those of us who do understand--she was wrong.

[skyblue888]

redwood, on the other forums you have made it crystal clear that you did not believe it was possible to overcome, or to keep the law perfectly in this life. You have made it abundantly clear that as long as we are in this world we will continue to sin until the very coming of Christ. You insisted that our characters are going to be changed at the coming of Christ, not before. Brother Mark replied with statements from Mrs. White stating the very opposite, that our characters must be changed before the second coming of Christ. But you objected by claiming that brother Mark did not understand what he was reading or that it was his own private interpretation and yet the statements are crystal clear to all who are willing to see and understand.

And then from time to time you would quote other statements that would contradict your position, giving the impression that you had had a conversion. Then the next day you would vehemently oppose those who believe in overcoming as Jesus overcame. One day I quoted from Bible Commentary, Vol.7a, a statement for which you accused me publicly to have made up. You insisted that I had invented it!!! Here is the statement again. I am sure the members of this forum won't be fooled this time. Mark has purchased the Ellen White Bible Commentary and he will be able to verify whether it is from Mrs. White or not and I am sure others will too.

"In Christ dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. This is why, although He was tempted in all points like as we are, He stood before the world, from His first entrance into it, untainted by corruption, though surrounded by it. Are we not to become partakers of that fullness, and is it not thus, and thus only, that we can overcome as He overcame? We lose much by not dwelling constantly upon the character of Christ." 1957 E.G. White, Bible Commentary, Vol.7a, p.351.

You claimed that this statement could not be found anywhere in her writings and it seemed as though no one would even care then to find out whether your claim was true or not except Mark. But this statement is a genuine statement from Mrs. White and you know it.

So, I know, from experience with you, that you are not motivated with a sincere desire to protect her writings but only to ridicule those who believe in her statements by taking on an air of piety as did some of the Jewish leaders in Christ's day to deceive the multitudes, if they could.

Every single time I have quoted this statement, you have made me look like a deceiver when I was not guilty of anything except to quote a statement from Mrs. White which you just could not accept because it destroyed your belief that it is impossible to overcome in this life as Jesus overcame.

sky

[John317]

What happens in the sifting of wheat from the chaff is that the wind blows away the chaff and the wheat falls to the ground near where it was thrown up in the air. So the chaff is separated and blown away while the wheat is left together. The sinners will be blown away out of the church by every wind of false doctrine and by persecution, etc., whereas the wheat is left in the church. Nowhere does either Ellen White or the Bible teach that the wheat or the sheep will leave the church. It's those who are unfaithful who leave, while the true will remain.

Do you agree with this? If not, why not?

[olger]

You have a good point. I think it's appropriate. It seems to say, "Who cares what's in front-- full speed ahead."

I concur,

g

[Dr. Rich]

sure! The wise virgins will be those who remain.

[Twilight]

What happens in the sifting of wheat from the chaff is that the wind blows away the chaff and the wheat falls to the ground near where it was thrown up in the air. So the chaff is separated and blown away while the wheat is left together. The sinners will be blown away out of the church by every wind of false doctrine and by persecution, etc., whereas the wheat is left in the church. Nowhere does either Ellen White or the Bible teach that the wheat or the sheep will leave the church. It's those who are unfaithful who leave, while the true will remain.

Do you agree with this? If not, why not?

First thing you have to do is define "church".

Is it the denomination, or the "body of believers" that are referred to?

*listens*

Mark :-)

[skyblue888]

How easy it is to distort the words of others.

All that the administrator said was that we should make sure we quote accurately so that the devil does not have a foothold to make his accusations,,, yes he did say you had a point and at first I agreed but then it became obvious that your criticism was not to help but to accuse,, this the administrator would not acknowledge and that is why you continued your attacks without being checked,,, but you were checked on adventisthall and banned,,,

The administrator also reminded everyone that no one had been appointed to be the "police" statement which you claimed to be. You follow me everywhere I go, looking for the least mistake. You do not have a desire to understand what the statements are saying. You are only looking to find faults with the poster for whater reason.

Please don't quote Ellen White now as though you believed in her writings. I know by experience that if there is someone on all the forums I have joined who claimed to be for God and yet could not be more against Him, it is you Redwood and you know it. You have made it so obvious to some of us that you hate the truth of God and the writings of Mrs. While while giving the impression that you revere both.

On one of the forums your user name is Victory! and yet you do not believe in victory! you believe in continuing in sin because "I am human," as you stated so many times. You believe and teach that our characters will be changed at the second coming. On another forum your user name is 4Him and yet if one pays attention to the bulk of your posts, it is clear that no one could be more against Him than you! I am saying this based on what you have posted and I am not the only one who can seet this. On all the forums you are on, I noticed that you strive to be the top poster and yet a lot of what you post only causes division fomenting tension and creating confusion in the minds of many.

How can we take you seriously when on one hand you declare yourself to be Mrs. White's police statements and yet at the same time call her a hypocrite!

I think it is time you have a reality check Redwood before it is too late.

May God have mercy on us,

sky

[skyblue888]

Ask yourself, were not the disciples of Christ and their converts "wise" virgins and were they not forced out of the established church by a persecution in A.D.34?

Can we learn something from the movements of the past?

"The important movements of the present have their parallel in those of the past and the experience of the church in former ages has lessons of great value for our own time." G.C.343.

sky

"The church is God's fortress, His city of refuge, which He holds in a revolted world." "From the beginning, faithful souls have constituted the church on earth." A.A.11

"The soul that is yielded to Christ becomes His own fortress, which He holds in a revolted world, and He intends that no authority shall be known in it but His own. A soul thus kept in possession by the heavenly agencies is impregnable to the assaults of Satan." D.A.324.

You want to be like little children, hanging upon the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour. Then you will be fortified. How? the angels of God will be around you as a wall of fire; the righteousness of Christ, which you claim, goes before you and the glory of God is your rearward. See Ms 9,1891.

[Woody]

Quote:

"Sanctification is a lifelong process. Perfection now is ours only in Christ, but the ultimate, all-comprehensive transformation of our lives into the image of God will take place at the Second Advent ...

Neither Christlike character traits nor faultess behaviour is the ground of our acceptance with God. Saving righteourness comes from the one righteous Man Jesus and is conveyed to us by the Holy Spirit. We can contribute nothing to Christ's gift of righteousness - we can only receive it. No one other than Christ is righteous; independent human righteousness is only filthy rags. " Seventh-Day Adventists Believe p. 145-6

It should be noted that no one other than Christ is righteous.

Quote:

Our morning meeting was held in the tent. I spoke again about thirty minutes in reference to genuine sanctification which is nothing less than a daily dying to self and daily conformity to the will of God. Paul's sanctification was a daily conflict with self. Said he, "I die daily" (1 Cor. 15:31). His will and his desires daily conflicted with duty and the will of God. In the plan of not following inclination, he did the will of God, however unpleasant and crucifying to his nature. The reason many in this age of the world make no greater advancement in the divine life is because they interpret their own will to be just what God wills. They do exactly as they desire and flatter themselves they are conforming to God's will. They please self in everything and have no conflict with self. {TDG 251.2}

[skyblue888]

I believe that Sky is a decent person. Anyone who teaches the Biblical truth of sanctification will come into conflict with those who wish to drag theology down to meet their experience. I read this quote at breakfast.

"Those who feel the constraining love of God do not ask for the lowest standard, but aim at perfect conformity to the will of their Redeemer." (StC)

g

Thanks Olger for your testimony. First time someone calls me a "decent" person... hehe though I certainly don't see myself as such except as a bag of warms trusting wholly in the merits of my Redeemer to find pardon and peace with God.

But you are so right in saying that those who believe in righteousness--obedience--by faith in the merits of Christ will be maligned just as our Saviour was.

God bless,

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: John317

You have a good point. I think it's appropriate. It seems to say, "Who cares what's in front-- full speed ahead."

I concur,

g

I just couldn't help thinking about that when I saw it!

[skyblue888]

You have a good point. I think it's appropriate. It seems to say, "Who cares what's in front-- full speed ahead."

amazing, isn't it? :)

[skyblue888]

Quote:

"Sanctification is a lifelong process. Perfection now is ours only in Christ, but the ultimate, all-comprehensive transformation of our lives into the image of God will take place at the Second Advent ...

Neither Christlike character traits nor faultess behaviour is the ground of our acceptance with God. Saving righteourness comes from the one righteous Man Jesus and is conveyed to us by the Holy Spirit. We can contribute nothing to Christ's gift of righteousness - we can only receive it. No one other than Christ is righteous; independent human righteousness is only filthy rags. " Seventh-Day Adventists Believe p. 145-6

It should be noted that no one other than Christ is righteous.

Quote:

Our morning meeting was held in the tent. I spoke again about thirty minutes in reference to genuine sanctification which is nothing less than a daily dying to self and daily conformity to the will of God. Paul's sanctification was a daily conflict with self. Said he, "I die daily" (1 Cor. 15:31). His will and his desires daily conflicted with duty and the will of God. In the plan of not following inclination, he did the will of God, however unpleasant and crucifying to his nature. The reason many in this age of the world make no greater advancement in the divine life is because they interpret their own will to be just what God wills. They do exactly as they desire and flatter themselves they are conforming to God's will. They please self in everything and have no conflict with self. {TDG 251.2}

Red, You did not give the full reference for the first quote,,, what volume of the Bible Commentary is it from? I know Ellen White's style enough to say that it is not a statement from her. I know the second one is from her. I recognize it.

So please tell us from what volume the first quote was taken from.

thanks

sky