Demonic possesions? (are they real)

[Solja247]

I have a ot of questions. I am not trying to spam this site, I just I have a lot of questions. Anyways I was debatating again with some evolutionist Christians who believe that all demon possesions can be proven by science. Can it? I know a few pastors, very smart pastors who have experienced demonic possesions. If demonic possesions are real then why are they not in the Western World?

In Demonic possesions does the devil have to leviatate the person or make them dissapear?

One more question, have you ever heard of an amputee being healed?

Thanks God bless :)

[John317]

If demonic possesions are real then why are they not in the Western World?

Of course they are in the Western World. See the following links:

http://books.google.com/books?id=o4IjxRY...;q=&f=false

https://www.anchormin.net/~anchormi/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=64

Some books by Vaughn Allen:

Setting Captives Free

Victory on the Battlefield

The War is Real, and so is the Victory

You Can Be Free

1) Demon possession is not able to be proven scientifically.

2) In Demon possession, people are not levitated, nor do people disappear.

You have many misconceptions.

[Solja247]

Quote:

1) Demon possession is not able to be proven scientifically.

Some alleged Demonic possessions can be proven by science.

[John317]

Quote:

1) Demon possession is not able to be proven scientifically.

Some alleged Demonic possessions can be proven by science.

If they can be proven, why then are they "alleged"?

There is very good evidence that they occur but that is not the same as proving them scientifically.

[Solja247]

[quoteIf they can be proven, why then are they "alleged"?

There is very good evidence that they occur but that is not the same as proving them scientifically.

[guibox]

From all my research, a legitimate exorcist/deliverance specialist investigates fully to completely rule out any medical/scientific explanations of the symptoms of the 'allegedly' possessed such as Tourettes, epilepsy and brain tumors. Even with these competing medical anomalies, they still find legitimate cases of genuine possession.

Yes, it is real. I believe that possession hides behind mental illness as a smoke screen for Satan to 'prove' to skeptics that he isn't real.

[John317]

The fact that there are charlatans is no evidence that genuine demon possession doesn't exist.

I gave you a link to one book which you may read online regarding genuine cases of demon possession. They're not anything like the illustration you give in your post of an "exorcism." Check out the links. Based on your description of the video, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's a fake. True "casting out of demons" is nothing like those. In genuine cases no one is going to be concerned with making a video, anyway. In the "true article," you won't find anything that calls attention to itself or that is interested in sensationalism.

[Outta Here]

I don't really think ANYONE here is qualified to speak of experience with demonic posession. Reading books, hearing of other cases, and other second-hand knowledge does not equip one with qualification to speak with knowledge of demon posession.

[oldsailor29]

I don't really think ANYONE here is qualified to speak of experience with demonic posession. Reading books, hearing of other cases, and other second-hand knowledge does not equip one with qualification to speak with knowledge of demon posession.

no one here will admit it.

[BobRyan]

Well.... there was that time I spent the hours of the morning helping Martin Webber and Clifford Goldstein hold down a guy that was possessed while Clifford sat on the guy's chest and prayed out loud with an open bible...

So ok - I suppose I can admit to that..

Then there was that "Moriah" character on another SDA message board ... Ok - that was also off the charts.

Then there was that lady living a few doors down from our church - who heard that the church was praying for someone with this "problem" and she brought in her daughter for prayer because she too had "a problem".

So... ok.. there was that.. too.

My father-in-law grew up in a home with a father that was a spiritualist medium. He was constantly afraid of the sights that would be taking place around their home. One day he decided to try to find a Christian church and get out - because while seeing his father in the living room - he looked out the window - and saw his father standing in the yard. At that point as a young teen - he figured out that the spirits lie.

(I may write a book some day)

[wayfinder]

The year was 2001, Aug.- Sept. 11. I had borrowed a book from a friend of mine. My friend had borrowed it from a friend of his, who had purchased it at an estate sale. What was interesting is that I seemed to have a premonition about the book, that it was evil. The title of the book was "Morals and Dogmas of Freemasonry" by Albert Pike. I should have listened to my premonitions, because within a couple of weeks some residents of hell moved in. They went after my son and my wife, but mostly my son. I could feel an evil, oppressive presence, every time I walked in to my home. My son cut himself four times on his left forearm and showed me his arm with the dried blood stains, I was shocked, horrified and baffled.

I had read several books on demon possession and deliverance, but I never, ever wanted to have any personal experience with it. If this had been someone else's son, I would have prayed for them, but not tried to intervene myself.

The next day I picked my son up from school, don't ask me why I even took him to school that day, and he very calmly showed me that he had drawn a single knife blade under each slice mark on his left forearm just above the wrist. My son was not an artist by any means, but those blades were perfect with intricate inlays drawn on them. Each one was about 1/4" long and 1/8" wide. I said, did you draw those and he said yes and I asked how he did it, thinking that he had used his right hand. He said he had used his left hand for all four, try that yourself draw on your left lower forearm with your left hand and make it perfect. I knew then that he was being attacked by evil beings.

To make a long and very painful story short, I had to do what I never wanted to do, step up and fight the powers of darkness, but this was for my son and I would do anything to protect my son, God and I did it. I read text that spoke of the power that God has given us over the evil beings, they really did not like that and it seemed that the words I was reading were causing them pain. When it happened it was like I had fliped a switch, one minute he is in a fetal position and making noises and the next he is talking to me like he just realized I was in the room. He told me he saw "them" and they had wings and tails.

This is just a synopsis of the worst two months of my life and I will never be the same. Time has helped, but I will never forget this experience and I never want to have anything to do with evil. I cannot express in words the helplessness, helplessness, helplessness, and what I experienced and how I felt.

[Richard Holbrook]

Wow wayfinder, that's amazing. Did it take two months to get rid of them? I assume you got rid of that book.

[BobRyan]

The discouraging part is that shockingly it seldom works by simply opening the Bible praying a prayer - ten minutes -- you're done.

The long painful gut-wrenching ordeal is not what our reading would lead or perpare us to expect. With Christ and the disciples it was mostly instantaneous and until I got stuck in one of those situations - I always "hoped" a ten-minute and you're-done solution would always be close at hand if it should ever be needed.

We counselled with some missionary friends of ours who dealt with this issue a lot in another country. They confirmed that it is not something you jump into greeted only by instant success, they way we really would prefer to think.

in Christ,

Bob

[Richard Holbrook]

My father-in-law grew up in a home with a father that was a spiritualist medium. He was constantly afraid of the sights that would be taking place around their home. One day he decided to try to find a Christian church and get out - because while seeing his father in the living room - he looked out the window - and saw his father standing in the yard. At that point as a young teen - he figured out that the spirits lie.

(I may write a book some day)

That's some scary stuff Bob.

[John317]

I don't really think ANYONE here is qualified to speak of experience with demonic posession. Reading books, hearing of other cases, and other second-hand knowledge does not equip one with qualification to speak with knowledge of demon posession.

"Vaughn Allen," the writer of the books, was my dad, an SDA pastor. I was there during many of the events he writes about and personally knew some of the people.

Some books by Vaughn Allen:

Setting Captives Free

Victory on the Battlefield

The War is Real

You Can Be Free

When or if you ever meet people with demonic problems and they tell you that they have a demon or demons in them, what would you do? Would you know what to do in order to help them?

Don't think that this never happens. It happens far more often than most people would believe.

Pastors and others who experience "warfare ministry" have to begin at some point, and that point is always "no experience." How did they learn what to do? To start with, they learn by talking to or reading books written by people who've been through it many times before.

[Richard Holbrook]

I know it happens a lot. I have a friend who's wife would mess with tarot cards and a ouija board and what not. After she left him, he would be sleeping and wake up to see this midget standing there looking at him. This happened a lot. He started calling him stumpy. That would scare me to death.

[wayfinder]

I called my wife from work to tell her that I was sure it was the book and I would return it to my friend as soon as I got home. She told me that she had been sleeping (she worked the night shift) and had heard something rattling, like a plastic bag. She opened her eyes and saw a creature that could only be describe as a goblin. It had yellow eyes and was crouched down beside the bed looking at her. As soon as she had opened her eyes it disappeared.

I was desperate to be rid of the evil beings in my house and would have done anything to accomplish this. A friend had been reading a book about using saltwater and or olive oil to anoint each room and command the demons to leave.

I walked up the stairs to my bedroom and as I enter through the door, the hair on my arms stood up, it had never done that before. The friend who was helping me anoint my house came through the door shortly after me and when he did the hair on his arms stood up also. He looked at his arms and said, wooooaaaaaah, their in here. I did not see anything, but I knew exactly where it was. That was the night of Sept. 10, 2001, you know what happened that morning in New York. I could not sleep at all that night and I remember hearing the door from the house to the garage slam at exactly 3:00 AM. My son heard the door also and it scared him, scared me too.

For the next five years my son was very suicidal I can't begin to tell you the sleepless nights and time spent talking with him, close to tears with him and crying alone for him. I never knew if I would find him on the floor dead. He is better now and I know he will be ok, God has given me that assurance. I really, really love God.

[Dr. Rich]

Yes, Wayfinder gave the book back to me and guess what happened to me--I almost died but they saved me at Loma Linda with a quadruple bypass. Needless to say--I gave the book back to the one who first gave it to me--pronto. But, I did read most of it and the one thing that stood out in the book was the religion of “reasonableness”. The goal with free masonry is to receive the wisdom of God (god) and turn your life completely over to this god. This will allow you to do things that others can’t do.

Messing around with demons is a dangerous thing to do. Unfortunately, there is a beautiful side of evil that is hard to tell the difference between Holiness and evilness.

[Richard Holbrook]

The Freemasons at the top actually worship Satan, but the regular freemason dosn't know anything about that.

[John317]

I hope you haven't "messed around" with demons, or with ouja boards, books sympathetic to Satan or in support of his ways, etc. Satan views those things as giving him permission to come into a person's life.

[Richard Holbrook]

No I don't mess with those things. What, do you think I'm stupid?

[Dr. Rich]

LOL do you really want me to answer this?

[Outta Here]

Don't think that this never happens. It happens far more often than most people would believe.

I do believe demonic posession happens. What I do not believe, however, is that ANYONE here at Club Adventist has experience enough such that he/she knows what to do about it.

[Richard Holbrook]

Don't answer that

[Richard Holbrook]

Why do you think that is so rare?