Conservative Legalists and Perfectionism

[LifeHiscost]

But when the crucifixion of the real Christians come, both will join in the persecution, just as in the past...

Mark :-)

Wow! That reminder perhaps tells us the need to practice humility under attack. We see it coming more each day and how we respond now will determine how we respond under the gun then, unless we accept the gift of repentance.

I just finished reading the book, "A Thousand Shall Fall". I encourage any who would like some insight on the trials that are in store for those faithful to the Word in the future, to strengthen their resolve and trust in the Sovereign Lord by reading this true experience by a family who were Seventh Day Adventist Christians during the period when a large portion of Germany was dedicated to advancing Adolf Hitler as the Messiah

at the beginning of the 3rd Reich.

"A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee." Psalm 91:7 KJV

I saw the book on Ebay on "buy it now" for $8.66.

Regards!

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

But when the crucifixion of the real Christians come, both will join in the persecution, just as in the past...

Mark :-)

Wow! That reminder perhaps tells us the need to practice humility under attack. We see it coming more each day and how we respond now will determine how we respond under the gun then, unless we accept the gift of repentance.

I just finished reading the book, "A Thousand Shall Fall". I encourage any who would like some insight on the trials that are in store for those faithful to the Word in the future, to strengthen their resolve and trust in the Sovereign Lord by reading this true experience by a family who were Seventh Day Adventist Christians during the period when a large portion of Germany was dedicated to advancing Adolf Hitler as the Messiah

at the beginning of the 3rd Reich.

"A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee." Psalm 91:7 KJV

I saw the book on Ebay on "buy it now" for $8.66.

Regards!

A very good book. :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

But when the crucifixion of the real Christians come, both will join in the persecution, just as in the past...

Mark :-)

Wow! That reminder perhaps tells us the need to practice humility under attack. We see it coming more each day and how we respond now will determine how we respond under the gun then, unless we accept the gift of repentance.

Agreed, so each day I need to appropriate the merits of Christ continually, that His righteousness may cover me and the Holy Spirit may sanctify me.

Then He will lead me into the patience and humility I need. :-)

[Gerr]

Quote:

If we realized that people are not totally perfect yet .... we would not be judging and expeling members from our midst.

Jesus bore long with Judas, but got rid of Annanias & Saphira.

God was patient with David but snuffed out Achan.

1 Cor 5:1,2 "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you."

Mt 13:30 "Let both grow together until the harvest,..."

So when should we put up? And when should we put out? Or just let the weeds take over?

[Woody]

Quote:

the Holy Spirit may sanctify me.

He has done that in my life. I've been sanctified praise God. And He can and will do it in anyone's life that wants it.

[Woody]

Quote:

If we realized that people are not totally perfect yet .... we would not be judging and expeling members from our midst.

Jesus bore long with Judas, but got rid of Annanias & Saphira.

God was patient with David but snuffed out Achan.

1 Cor 5:1,2 "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you."

Mt 13:30 "Let both grow together until the harvest,..."

So when should we put up? And when should we put out? Or just let the weeds take over?

God is God.

[Gerr]

But did God not give ANY principles/guidelines through his messengers whens to put up and when to put out? In 1 Cor 5:1,2, Paul said, put out the man who has his father's wife!

[Woody]

Praise God .... I am not my fellow man's judge.

[BobRyan]

Quote:

"Legalists believe sanctification is the ROOT , not the fruit of their salvation. Through performance we will never know how much is enough to gain God's acceptance.Performance is a response to the Father's love" J. Robert Spangler Ministry Magazine Oct. 1989

Quote:

"Perfectionism shapes the understanding of church standards that some members hold. The standards have become a useful way of defining the sinlessness that they believe they must obtain to have salvation. Often this is an unconscious unexamined belief rooted more in personality traits than in theology." Ministry Magazine Oct. 1989 Monte Sahlin

My belief is that perfection means "sin does not reign but it does remain".

If we realized that people are not totally perfect yet .... we would not be judging and expeling members from our midst.

First of all I agree with the many quotes in the OP that point to the existence of a dry Christless, loveless, joyless, harsh, critical, condemning spirit that can be found among certain groups. Ellen White is clear that it is the unsaved condition manifesting itself in that case.

Those groups are often possessed by a desire for "group think" and seem to enjoy nothing more than offering stale responses to hard questions - that require no thought or study and are upheld only by "popular vote" among those who "always say we are always right on whatever we say".

As if that alone would suffice to determine truth from error.

But having admitted to my disdain for such group think principles - I still think that Paul was right in 1Cor 5 in his command to disfellowship someone that was in gross error.

There has to be balance here. One error can not be used to justify another.

Just my two cents.

in Christ,

Bob

[Woody]

Unfortunely as much as we would like to uproot the tares .... the wheat and tares must grow together till the Harvest.

[BobRyan]

True enough, the wheat and the tares must remain together in the church until the shaking is completed. But the question is whether Paul was right to tell the church to draw that line in 1Cor 5? What about Christ's command to draw that same line in Matt 18?

[Woody]

May I ask how it is we are to treat one who is a heathen or a publican?

[LifeHiscost]

May I ask how it is we are to treat one who is a heathen or a publican?

There is a distinction determining to some extent, the difference between how we treat the publican or heathen, as compared to how we are to treat a brother who behaves outrageously, even while professing to know the way.

"But now I write to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of [Christian] brother if he is known to be guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater [whose soul is devoted to any object that usurps the place of God], or is a person with a foul tongue [railing, abusing, reviling, slandering], or is a drunkard or a swindler or a robber. [No] you must not so much as eat with such a person."1 Corinthians 5:11 AMP

" For if you love those who love you, what reward can you have? Do not even the tax collectors do that?

And if you greet only your brethren, what more than others are you doing? Do not even the Gentiles (the heathen) do that?

you, therefore, must be perfect [growing into complete maturity of godliness in mind and character, having reached the proper height of virtue and integrity], as your heavenly Father is perfect."Matthew 5:46-48 AMP

"Declare his glory among the heathen, his wonders among all people."Psalm 96:3 KJV

Blessings!

[teresaq]

this seems to be going from the topic title to how or when to get rid of the tares.

[olger]

Those who aim for the minimum in life, always reach it.

[Guest]

What are you saying olger, we should stone the tares?

[olger]

"That thou doest, do quickly."

[Guest]

[olger]

good-natured smile

g

[skyblue888]

hehehe

[skyblue888]

Those who aim for the minimum in life, always reach it.

thats a good one

[teresaq]

this seems to be going from the topic title to how or when to get rid of the tares.

[olger]

Teresa. Wasn't aimed at yourself - the forum automatically attaches a post to the preceeding post.

rejoice always,

g

(quote good)

[oldsailor29]

Seems some people are equating church with heaven. Just because someone is a member in good standing, it doesn't automatically mean they will be saved. And just because someone is disfellowshipped, it doesn't mean they are not saved. Removing someone's name from the church books is not removing them from heaven's books. Churches have to have standards of conduct for their members. But at the same time everyone should realize that being a church member does not mean salvation. The danger in thinking church means salvation is that we start comparing ourselves with other church members. This is a trick of Satan. Don't allow him to do that. Wheat and tares and shaking has very little to do with organized religion.

[Guest]

Wheat and tares and shaking has very little to do with organized religion.

I think you're right oldsailor.