Temptation as a friend...

[Twilight]

So often we treat temptation as an enemy, but have you ever considered that God can turn it for our good and it is the workman he sets on us to purify us?

2Cr 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

2Cr 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2Cr 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

-----------------------

So how do we "benefit" from temptation?

Well, often we wrestle against it, rather than wrestle with God over it.

Temptation comes and we fight against it, trying to get rid of it by "willpower".

But this is wrong.

-----------------------

An example of one of the secrets of victory is as follows:

I turn within to the Lord's presence. Psa 31:20

His presence is in my "heart". Eph 3:17

This turning is a heart turning, not so much a "head" or "intellectual" turning. Psa 77:6

Then I lift up my temptations in prayer. Phil 4:6

I am drawn closer to the Lord and experience His Peace. Phil 4:7

Temptation comes again.

Again I turn to the Lord and am drawn closer.

------------------------

When this habit of turning within, in times of temptation is repeated over and over, it becomes instinctive.

Then this habit of turning becomes a constant state, until you do not "turn" anymore, but are fully turned continually.

When we are no longer "turning" but are "turned" we are abiding in the Lords Presence.

------------------------

Then with Paul, we can learn to say:

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities

Your thoughts?

Mark

[Lutz13]

So often we treat temptation as an enemy, but have you ever considered that God can turn it for our good and it is the workman he sets on us to purify us?

2Cr 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

2Cr 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2Cr 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

-----------------------

So how do we "benefit" from temptation?

Well, often we wrestle against it, rather than wrestle with God over it.

Temptation comes and we fight against it, trying to get rid of it by "willpower".

But this is wrong.

-----------------------

An example of one of the secrets of victory is as follows:

I turn within to the Lord's presence. Psa 31:20

His presence is in my "heart". Eph 3:17

This turning is a heart turning, not so much a "head" or "intellectual" turning. Psa 77:6

Then I lift up my temptations in prayer. Phil 4:6

I am drawn closer to the Lord and experience His Peace. Phil 4:7

Temptation comes again.

Again I turn to the Lord and am drawn closer.

------------------------

When this habit of turning within, in times of temptation is repeated over and over, it becomes instinctive.

Then this habit of turning becomes a constant state, until you do not "turn" anymore, but are fully turned continually.

When we are no longer "turning" but are "turned" we are abiding in the Lords Presence.

------------------------

Then with Paul, we can learn to say:

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities

Your thoughts?

Mark

That was beautiful Mark!

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

So often we treat temptation as an enemy, but have you ever considered that God can turn it for our good and it is the workman he sets on us to purify us?

2Cr 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

2Cr 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2Cr 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

-----------------------

So how do we "benefit" from temptation?

Well, often we wrestle against it, rather than wrestle with God over it.

Temptation comes and we fight against it, trying to get rid of it by "willpower".

But this is wrong.

-----------------------

An example of one of the secrets of victory is as follows:

I turn within to the Lord's presence. Psa 31:20

His presence is in my "heart". Eph 3:17

This turning is a heart turning, not so much a "head" or "intellectual" turning. Psa 77:6

Then I lift up my temptations in prayer. Phil 4:6

I am drawn closer to the Lord and experience His Peace. Phil 4:7

Temptation comes again.

Again I turn to the Lord and am drawn closer.

------------------------

When this habit of turning within, in times of temptation is repeated over and over, it becomes instinctive.

Then this habit of turning becomes a constant state, until you do not "turn" anymore, but are fully turned continually.

When we are no longer "turning" but are "turned" we are abiding in the Lords Presence.

------------------------

Then with Paul, we can learn to say:

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities

Your thoughts?

Mark

That was beautiful Mark!

Praise God, it is beautiful, it has helped me make sense of temptation.

I used to think I was seperated from God, because I could not sense His presence and could only sense almost constant temptation.

But now, it is becoming a useful tool in my Christian walk.

It is the hammer blow of the refining process and I am learning to treat it as such.

When you get Guyons book, you will see this principle, but it is expressed as "spiritual dryness", (times when the Lord does not appear close by). It was whilst reading her autobiography that the Lord opened this up to my understanding. :-)

Mark

[Lutz13]

I was really hoping the book would have arrived by now. I am really intrigued and I am glad you made this post. It gives me something to dwell upon. Thank you for that.

[Twilight]

I was really hoping the book would have arrived by now. I am really intrigued and I am glad you made this post. It gives me something to dwell upon. Thank you for that.

All thanks to the Lord, we are but unprofitable servants. :-)

Although there is great joy in watching truth touch anothers heart...

Mar :-)

[Twilight]

The same principle is expressed here:

Jam 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Jam 4:7 ¶ Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Jam 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse [your] hands, [ye] sinners; and purify [your] hearts, [ye] double minded.

1. We receive Grace by the humbling of the Gospel.

2. Give ourselves (submit) ourselves into Gods hands (surrender).

3. Resist temptation (Resist the devil).

4. How?

5. Draw nigh (near) to God.

6. He draws near to us.

7. As we go through this process we cleanse our hands, purify our hearts and become single in mind...

God bless,

Mark

[Lutz13]

I do have one question though. How does one separate the heart and the mind? I would love to hear your thoughts.

[Twilight]

I do have one question though. How does one separate the heart and the mind? I would love to hear your thoughts.

The still small voice of God can be heard where He is.

He is in our "hearts".

So we turn within (spiritually) and listen.

But we are listening for the "still small voice".

Sometimes it is totally silent.

Sometimes it is like an underground river that you can just make out under the ground if you listen carefully.

Sometimes it is a torrent of love and joy that captures you and takes possession of you.

But turn away from trying to find God in your mind, seek Him in your heart.

Direct your "focus" there, towards the heart, where God resides through the Holy Spirit.

We are woken to this when we accept the indwelling Christ by faith.

That is the "how".

The texts I can supply if it helps. :-)

Mark

[Twilight]

Do not look amongst your thoughts.

Look to your heart for His presence.

Mark

[Twilight]

Be still and know that I am God...

[Lutz13]

Do not look amongst your thoughts.

Look to your heart for His presence.

Mark

Thank you, I think I understand!

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Do not look amongst your thoughts.

Look to your heart for His presence.

Mark

Thank you, I think I understand!

And listen. :-)

[Lutz13]

Is this something that takes practice? I couldn't hear anything. :(

[Twilight]

Further for your consideration Lutz:

Jesus knew the difference between heart and mind:

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

This emphasis is not in the Hebrew, Jesus was trying clarify something about the function of the "heart".

Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me.

God wants us to have a "heart" conversion.

This is a huge study but very rewarding.

----------------------

Here are some further texts for you to explore on the role of the "heart" and Gods presence:

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

[Twilight]

Is this something that takes practice? I couldn't hear anything.

It is an awareness of His presence Lutz.

You have to receive Him into your heart by faith first.

You have to believe He is there, because He said He would be.

Then we have to wait patiently for Him to reveal Himself.

When Jeans book comes, it will make much more sense. :-)

Sometimes I cannot "hear" Him, then it is pure faith I exercise.

Gods presence within us is revealed as He sees fit.

It is there, once we have accepted it by Faith, but whether it is revealed, that is up to the Lord.

But we have to be "still".

Elijah on the mountain was a prophet, yet it was "after" he had called fire down from heaven that God revealed the "still small voice" to him. Imagine that, a prophet of God, but did not recognise the still small voice of God.

Elijah was later translated...

This is parrallel to our experience.

Many Adventists do not even know their is a still small voice, just like Elijah.

Patiently quietly persevere Lutz, it does become easier over time, I will pray for you.

And read Guyons book, it explains it in great detail and has some simple exercises to practice with.

Mark :-)

[Lutz13]

Originally Posted By: Lutz13

Is this something that takes practice? I couldn't hear anything.

It is an awareness of His presence Lutz.

You have to receive Him into your heart by faith first.

You have to believe He is there, because He said He would be.

Then we have to wait patiently for Him to reveal Himself.

When Jeans book comes, it will make much more sense. :-)

Sometimes I cannot "hear" Him, then it is pure faith I exercise.

Gods presence within us is revealed as He sees fit.

It is there, once we have accepted it by Faith, but whether it is revealed, that is up to the Lord.

But we have to be "still".

Elijah on the mountain was a prophet, yet it was "after" he had called fire down from heaven that God revealed the "still small voice" to him. Imagine that, a prophet of God, but did not recognise the still small voice of God.

Elijah was later translated...

This is parrallel to our experience.

Many Adventists do not even know their is a still small voice, just like Elijah.

Patiently quietly persevere Lutz, it does become easier over time, I will pray for you.

And read Guyons book, it explains it in great detail and has some simple exercises to practice with.

Mark :-)

Thanks for the insight Mark. This truly is a blessing and it is something I will keep dwelling on.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

It is an awareness of His presence Lutz.

You have to receive Him into your heart by faith first.

You have to believe He is there' date=' because He said He would be.

Then we have to wait patiently for Him to reveal Himself.

When Jeans book comes, it will make much more sense. :-)

Sometimes I cannot "hear" Him, then it is pure faith I exercise.

Gods presence within us is revealed as He sees fit.

It is there, once we have accepted it by Faith, but whether it is revealed, that is up to the Lord.

But we have to be "still".

Elijah on the mountain was a prophet, yet it was "after" he had called fire down from heaven that God revealed the "still small voice" to him. Imagine that, a prophet of God, but did not recognise the still small voice of God.

Elijah was later translated...

This is parrallel to our experience.

Many Adventists do not even know their is a still small voice, just like Elijah.

Patiently quietly persevere Lutz, it does become easier over time, I will pray for you.

And read Guyons book, it explains it in great detail and has some simple exercises to practice with.

Mark :-)

[/quote']

Thanks for the insight Mark. This truly is a blessing and it is something I will keep dwelling on.

Praise God, my heart jumps for joy. :-)

Mark

[Guest]

Your heart is your mind. It may be the inner most part of it, but you don't think with that organ that pumps blood. When the Bible speaks of the heart, it is talking about your mind.

Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.

[Twilight]

Your heart is your mind. It may be the inner most part of it, but you don't think with that organ that pumps blood. When the Bible speaks of the heart, it is talking about your mind.

Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.

Then why did Jesus choose to differentiate?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Heart = Kardia

Mind = Dianio

Why make a difference.

If what you say is correct Richard then the text should read:

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy mind, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

But it does not. :-)

Mark

[Twilight]

Your heart is your mind. It may be the inner most part of it, but you don't think with that organ that pumps blood. When the Bible speaks of the heart, it is talking about your mind.

Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.

Please also note that the differentiation is not so easy to see in the Hebrew.

Consider these alternatives to the word heart for the above translation:

1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion (from strongs).

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Your heart is your mind. It may be the inner most part of it, but you don't think with that organ that pumps blood. When the Bible speaks of the heart, it is talking about your mind.

Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.

Please also note that the differentiation is not so easy to see in the Hebrew.

Consider these alternatives to the word heart for the above translation:

1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion (from strongs).

May I suggest a simple study of the word "heart" in the NT.

Then a simple study of the word "mind" in the NT.

Considering the Greek meaning of course.

I have yet to find anything to contradict the literal usage of the word "heart".

If some do not see that, they still have to explain how "heart" means "mind" from the NT.

I have yet to see someone support that position so would be very interested if they could.

Mark :-)

[Guest]

I too ordered the book, and I am looking forward to reading it. But since I ordered it I found out that Madame Guyon was a mystic. Someone told me this:

Quote:

... Yesterday I Googled her for something to do and the write-ups were less than complimentary. I do have her autobiography and don't think I'll run into much trouble there, but she was a mystic (like many from the Middle Ages). I don't know how much faith Adventists put in mysticism, knowing what we know.

[Twilight]

I too ordered the book, and I am looking forward to reading it. But since I ordered it I found out that Madame Guyon was a mystic. Someone told me this:

Quote:

... Yesterday I Googled her for something to do and the write-ups were less than complimentary. I do have her autobiography and don't think I'll run into much trouble there, but she was a mystic (like many from the Middle Ages). I don't know how much faith Adventists put in mysticism, knowing what we know.

I do not have any difficulty recommending her book.

Paul was often referred to as a "mystic" within the cultural bounds of the 17th Century that Jean Guyon was labelled the same.

Remember, each should examine for themselves and hold fast to what is true.

My view would be this, if she is a mystic and teaching something other than the bible, then throw her out.

But labelling somone "mystical" when they are "spiritual" and throwing them out, then I would have to place Ellen White on the same par, and Paul. As much of their language was "mystical" or "spiritual".

Do not be confounded by a wrongly applied term.

Each man should test all things and hold fast to what is true.

But what is remarkable to me is this:

She understood that she was saved through the Merits of Christ.

She understood the need to recieve the Righteousness of Christ.

This women was also persecuted by the Catholic Church and imprisoned for teaching people how to have a personal walk with God.

My view from studying her writings was that she was a devout Christian and a deeply spiritual woman.

We have a lot to learn from other Christians that have walked the path.

Especially one that went through the persecution she did.

So do not believe everything you read on the internet, check it out for yourself would be my advise.

As for me?

I am deeply blessed by many of her teachings...

Test all things...

Mark

[Twilight]

I too ordered the book, and I am looking forward to reading it. But since I ordered it I found out that Madame Guyon was a mystic. Someone told me this:

Quote:

knowing what we know.

I emphasised this point Richard, that you quoted.

If we "know what we know", then why haven't we finished the work?

Mark :-)

[Guest]

This women was also persecuted by the Catholic Church and imprisoned for teaching people how to have a personal walk with God.

My view from studying her writings was that she was a devout Christian and a deeply spiritual woman.

Ok