skyblue888 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 The greatest destruction yet to eventuate before the second coming of Christ will result from the outpouring of the seven last plagues. This will be the drinking by the finally impenitent "of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation..." Revelation 14:10. Up till this time the judgments of God have always been mixed with mercy so that the wicked were shielded from the full penalty of their guilt. "All the judgments upon men, prior to the close of probation, have been mingled with mercy. The pleading blood of Christ has shielded the sinner from receiving the full measure of his guilt; but in the final judgment, wrath is poured out unmixed with mercy." The Great Controversy, 629. The same language used in Scripture to describe the destructions on men in the past, is employed to portray this terrible future desolation. It is depicted as being "the wrath of God," administered by destroying angels. The incineration of Sodom and Gomorrah, the flooding of Noah's world, the plaguing of the Egyptians, the serpents' invasion into Israel's encampment, Jericho's, Nineveh's, and Jerusalem's overthrow, and many more such catastrophies are consistently detailed in the same terms employed to prophesy the coming seven last plagues. Harmony of interpretation insists that the Scriptural portrayal of events yet future must be understood in the same way as the Word of God reveals that the description of events in the past be understood. The Bible abounds in explanations of how we are to interpret the declarations describing the punishment to befall the wicked. By this means we have no excuse for failing to understand that when God is said to destroy, the result of His efforts to save have resulted in the withdrawal of the impenitent from Him to the place where no protection from destruction remains to them. This is the way it has always been in the past. So it must yet be in the seven last plagues. to be continued Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 In studying the outpouring of the seven last plagues, it can be correctly expected then, that the Scriptures, rightly understood, will show that the restraining, protecting hand of God is to be removed from the rod of power, so that, freed from His directions and out of His control, the powers in men and nature will break loose in unfettered fury. Thus men will reap the harvest of their own sowing. We are greatly assisted in the study of the seven last plagues by two events in the past. The first is the plagues of Egypt and the second, the fall of Jerusalem. Scripture declares that each of these events was a preview of what is to happen in the final scourges. "When Christ ceases His intercession in the sanctuary, the unmingled wrath threatened against those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark, will be poured out. The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel, were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God's people." The Great Controversy, 627, 628. The similarity between the plagues upon Egypt and the seven last plagues is in their character. This indicates that the plagues on Egypt will not be duplicated by the seven last plagues and a quick check shows that this is true. In the seven last plagues there will be no frogs, lice, flies, or specific death of the first-born, and in Egypt there was no earthquake, drying up of the River, or scorching of men with great heat. But while the seven last plagues will not be an exact repetition of the Egyptian scourges, they will be similar in character. The acquirement of character is the result of a moulding process, so that if the identical influences are exerted on like materials, the end product will be the same. The Egyptian devastations possessed the character they had because of the situation out of which they were born and by which they were shaped. The people's continued determination to shut God out of their lives had brought them to the place where God was compelled to accept their desires and leave them to reap their harvest of pain and loss. God released His hold on the rod so that it passed out of His direction and control. Thus the character of the plagues was that they were natural forces possessed of the fury of destruction. The same character will be manifested in the seven last plagues because they will be the offspring of exactly the same conditions. As the one nation of Egypt threw off all connection with God, so the people of the whole world will separate from God, rejecting every principle of righteousness and association with Him. The last appeals of mercy scorned, God is left with no option but to leave them alone. Once again, nature out of control will smite them until none remain. to be continued Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Dr. Rich Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Hey Sky--if probation closes before Jesus comes like she says here, and the coming like a thief is the same as coming in the clouds, how can it be 'as in the days of Noah'? Quote
Moderators John317 Posted October 16, 2009 Moderators Posted October 16, 2009 ....if probation closes before Jesus comes like she says here, and the coming like a thief is the same as coming in the clouds, how can it be 'as in the days of Noah'? Just as the door of the ark was closed before the Flood came, ending their time of salvation, so will probation end before Jesus comes. "Today is the day of salvation. Tomorrow may be too late." That's the message. Matt. 24: 36-42 is saying that at the time Jesus comes, the people will be like the people before the Flood: they will be unaware of what is coming and will be caught by surprise, not because they weren't warned but because they didn't believe the warning. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Guest Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 The 7 last plagues are only part of God's wrath. The fire that comes from God is also a part of that wrath. The last part. ...and the sentence that will fix the destiny of the soul in eternal bliss or to be punished with the fiery element of the wrath of God, which will close the history of the wicked forever. {CTr 102} Quote
skyblue888 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 Jesus comes as a thief when probation closes. No doubt about that. "The righteous and the wicked will still be living upon the earth in their mortal state--men will be planting and building, eating and drinking, all unconscious that the final, irrevocable decision has been pronounced in the sanctuary above. Before the Flood, after Noah entered the ark, God shut him in and shut the ungodly out; but for seven days the people, knowing not that their doom was fixed, continued their careless, pleasure-loving life and mocked the warnings of impending judgment. "So," says the Saviour, "shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:39. Silently, unnoticed as the midnight thief, will come the decisive hour which marks the fixing of every man's destiny, the final withdrawal of mercy's offer to guilty men. "Watch ye therefore: . . . lest coming suddenly He find you sleeping." Mark 13:35, 36. Perilous is the condition of those who, growing weary of their watch, turn to the attractions of the world. While the man of business is absorbed in the pursuit of gain, while the pleasure lover is seeking indulgence, while the daughter of fashion is arranging her adornments--it may be in that hour the Judge of all the earth will pronounce the sentence: "Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting." Daniel 5:27. This shows that He comes as a thief when probation closes. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 The second preview of the seven last plagues is given in the destruction of Jerusalem. "The Saviour's prophecy concerning the visitation of judgments upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfilment, of which that terrible desolation was but a faint shadow. In the fate of the chosen city we may behold the doom of a world that has rejected God's mercy and trampled upon His law." The Great Controversy, 36. Already the fate of Jerusalem has been studied. The Spirit of God, persistently rejected and abused, had at last no choice but to leave the people to themselves. With nothing to restrain the fierce passions of the Jews, they rebelled so treacherously and seditiously against the Romans that they stirred up the worst spirit of retaliation in them. This brought the mighty power of Rome to bear upon the city of Jerusalem. With the continued resistance of the Jews and the prolonged attack by the Romans, the spirits of all became so intensified that in the final scenes, the powers in those people simply ran riot. The resulting slaughter and atrocities were worse than human language can picture. When the city had been conquered and there were no more to be slain, the Romans then systematically tore the city stone from stone till the destruction was virtually absolute. In that fate the doom of the world is to be read. Exactly what befell Jerusalem will befall the whole earth. The time is coming when the sins of men will compel the Spirit of God to totally depart. With nothing to hold in check the deadly powers in nature and man, the earth will be plunged into a time of trouble such as never was. The seven last plagues will in no sense of the word be the manipulation of those powers by the hands of God. Instead, just as in Egypt and in Jerusalem, God will not even be there. Everything that happens will be because of His absence, not because of His presence. Once again the rod will have passed out of Moses' hand. These direct statements will verify the truth of the above principles and the conclusions drawn from them. "When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. God's long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected His mercy, despised His love, and trampled upon His law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation; the Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one. Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old." The Great Controversy, 614. "As Jesus moved out of the most holy place, I heard the tinkling of the bells upon His garment; and as He left, a cloud of darkness covered the inhabitants of the earth. There was then no mediator between guilty man and an offended God. While Jesus had been standing between God and guilty man, a restraint was upon the people; but when He stepped out from between man and the Father, the restraint was removed, and Satan had entire control of the finally impenitent. It was impossible for the plagues to be poured out while Jesus officiated in the sanctuary; but as His work there is finished, and His intercession closes, there is nothing to stay the wrath of God, and it breaks with fury upon the shelterless head of the guilty sinner, who has slighted salvation and hated reproof." Early Writings, 280. This statement verifies the truth that it is the removal of God's restraining power which releases the powers of men and nature into Satan's hands. They then burst with destructive fury upon the shelterless heads of the wicked. Let the expression, "there is nothing to stay the wrath of God," be guarded from misunderstanding. Before the principles in regard to God's character are understood, this would be taken to mean that God was personally angered and therefore anxious to smite the offenders, but is restrained by the intercession of His Son until Jesus finishes His work in the sanctuary. If this interpretation is correct, then Christ and His Father are working against each other. God is longing to destroy man, while Christ is resisting Him. However, it is impossible to believe this and at the same time hold to the great and precious truth that Christ and the Father are one; that, far from working against each other, they are fully united in the task of saving man. "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself . . ." 2 Corinthians 5:19. to be continued Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Guest Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Then I saw that the seven last plagues were soon to be poured out upon those who have no shelter; yet the world regarded them no more than they would so many drops of water that were about to fall. I was then made capable of enduring the awful sight of the seven last plagues, the wrath of God. I saw that His anger was dreadful and terrible, and if He should stretch forth His hand, or lift it in anger, the inhabitants of the world would be as though they had never been, or would suffer from incurable sores and withering plagues that would come upon them, and they would find no deliverance, but be destroyed by them. Terror seized me, and I fell upon my face before the angel and begged of him to cause the sight to be removed, to hide it from me, for it was too dreadful. Then I realized, as never before, the importance of searching the Word of God carefully, to know how to escape the plagues which that Word declares shall come on all the ungodly who shall worship the beast and his image and receive his mark in their foreheads or in their hands. {EW64} Quote
Guest Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 I was shown that the seven last plagues will be poured out after Jesus leaves the sanctuary. Said the angel, "It is the wrath of God and the Lamb that causes the destruction or death of the wicked. At the voice of God the saints will be mighty and terrible as an army with banners, but they will not then execute the judgment written. The execution of the judgment will be at the close of the one thousand years." {EW 52.1} Quote
Moderators John317 Posted October 16, 2009 Moderators Posted October 16, 2009 Then I realized, as never before, the importance of searching the Word of God carefully, to know how to escape the plagues which that Word declares shall come on all the ungodly who shall worship the beast and his image and receive his mark in their foreheads or in their hands. {EW64} The book of Revelation shows very clearly that the main purpose of the Third Angels Message and the fourth angel of Rev. 18 is to help people avoid the Seven Last Plagues that fall on those who worship the beast and his image. Obeying the message is comparable to applying the blood to the doorpost so that "the angel of God" would pass by without destroying the first-born. (See SG, Vol. III-IV, pages 223, 224.) Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Guest Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook Then I realized, as never before, the importance of searching the Word of God carefully, to know how to escape the plagues which that Word declares shall come on all the ungodly who shall worship the beast and his image and receive his mark in their foreheads or in their hands. {EW64} The book of Revelation shows very clearly that the main purpose of the Third Angels Message and the fourth angel of Rev. 18 is to help people avoid the Seven Last Plagues that fall on those who worship the beast and his image. Obeying the message is comparable to applying the blood to the doorpost so that "the angel of God" would pass by without destroying the first-born. (See SG, Vol. III-IV, pages 223, 224.) Amen to that. Quote
skyblue888 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 There could be nothing closer than the unity of the Father and the Son in the work of salvation. God is not seeking the sinner's destruction while the Son works to delay the unleashing of the Father's fury. They are working together to the limit of their resources to bring men back to eternal life, and only when men utterly reject those saving measures, do they jointly leave the rebellious to their chosen fate. When it is truly understood that the wrath of God is not a personal feeling, but the perversion and derangement of the powers in men and nature into wrathful and destructive forces only awaiting the opportunity to embark on a rampage of devastation, then there will be no problem in understanding the unity of the Father and the Son. "Men have reached a point in insolence and disobedience which shows that their cup of iniquity is almost full. Many have well-nigh passed the boundary of mercy. Soon God will show that He is indeed the living God. He will say to the angels, 'No longer combat Satan in his efforts to destroy. Let him work out his malignity upon the children of disobedience; for the cup of their iniquity is full. They have advanced from one degree of wickedness to another, adding daily to their lawlessness. I will no longer interfere to prevent the destroyer from doing his work.' "This time is right upon us. The Spirit of God is being withdrawn from the earth. When the angel of mercy folds her wings and departs, Satan will do the evil deeds he has long wished to do. Storm and tempest, war and bloodshed,—in these things he delights, and thus he gathers in his harvest. And so completely will men be deceived by him that they will declare that these calamities are the result of the desecration of the first day of the week. From the pulpits of the popular churches will be heard the statement that the world is being punished because Sunday is not honored as it should be. And it will require no great stretch of imagination for men to believe this. They are guided by the enemy, and therefore they reach conclusions which are entirely false." The Review and Herald, September 17, 1901. "It is God that shields His creatures, and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would,—He will withdraw His blessings from the earth, and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law, and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favour and prosper some, in order to further his own designs; and he will bring trouble upon others, and lead men to believe that it is God Who is afflicting them." The Great Controversy, 589. "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejecters of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. Every ray of light rejected, every warning despised or unheeded, every passion indulged, every transgression of the law of God, is a seed sown, which yields its unfailing harvest. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan." The Great Controversy, 36. Thus the Lord makes it very plain how the seven last plagues will come. They will certainly not be the direct use by God, of the forces in man and nature. Instead, God will make a judgment or assessment that the wicked have fully and universally resolved to depose Him from their hearts, their affairs, and the world. Their decision being fully confirmed, leaves God no choice but to let them have all they want. So He leaves them, and Satan quickly seizes these powers, stirring them to even greater heights of frenzy and terror. to be continued Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 We are willingly blind if we disregard this light. Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 The wicked have sown the seed. The harvest is inevitable. But it is not the work of God. It is the work of men against themselves. They sowed the seed. They reap the harvest. "But from those who have no sense of the goodness and mercy of God, who refuse His merciful warnings, who reject His counsels to reach the highest standard of Bible requirements, who do despite to the Spirit of grace, the Lord would remove His protecting power. I was shown that Satan would entangle and then destroy, if he could, the souls he had tempted. God will bear long, but there is a bound to His mercy, a line which marks His mercy and His justice. I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way: They place themselves beyond His protection. He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then if those who have been the objects of His special care will follow their own course independent of the Spirit of God, after repeated warnings, if they choose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them. It is Satan's power that is at work at sea and on land, bringing calamity and distress, and sweeping off multitudes to make sure of his prey. And storm and tempest both by sea and land will be, for Satan has come down in great wrath. He is at work. He knows his time is short and, if he is not restrained, we shall see more terrible manifestations of his power than we have ever dreamed of." Manuscript Releases Volume Fourteen, 2-3) Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Guest Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 We are willingly blind if we disregard this light. I don't know if you are willingly blind or not, since I don't claim to know men's hearts. But I do know you have gone off the rails of truth. Quote
Guest Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 How do you reconcile this, where the prophet is saying the excact opposite of what you are saying? I was shown that the seven last plagues will be poured out after Jesus leaves the sanctuary. Said the angel, "It is the wrath of God and the Lamb that causes the destruction or death of the wicked. {EW 52} Quote
skyblue888 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 These words have already been explained on this thread by the words of inspiration. "Man who is in honor and yet does not understand, is like the beast that perish." Psalm 40:29. Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Guest Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 If you have to try to explain away the straight testimony of EGW, then that ought to be your first clue that maybe you don't understand correctly. Quote
skyblue888 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 Richard, u dont even take time to read what has been posted. Prejudices and opinions prevail but these are never to be found on God's side. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Moderators John317 Posted October 16, 2009 Moderators Posted October 16, 2009 "When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. God's long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected His mercy, despised His love, and trampled upon His law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation; the Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one. Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old." The Great Controversy, 614. "As Jesus moved out of the most holy place, I heard the tinkling of the bells upon His garment; and as He left, a cloud of darkness covered the inhabitants of the earth. There was then no mediator between guilty man and an offended God. While Jesus had been standing between God and guilty man, a restraint was upon the people; but when He stepped out from between man and the Father, the restraint was removed, and Satan had entire control of the finally impenitent. It was impossible for the plagues to be poured out while Jesus officiated in the sanctuary; but as His work there is finished, and His intercession closes, there is nothing to stay the wrath of God, and it breaks with fury upon the shelterless head of the guilty sinner, who has slighted salvation and hated reproof." Early Writings, 280. This statement verifies the truth that it is the removal of God's restraining power which releases the powers of men and nature into Satan's hands. They then burst with destructive fury upon the shelterless heads of the wicked. I agree with you that God removes his restraining power and allows Satan to take control of the wicked. But that alone does not account for the Seven Last Plagues coming on the people who worship the Beast and his image. The "one great, final trouble" is in addition to the Seven Last Plagues. It all happens at the same time, but the "trouble" that Satan plunges the world into is not identical to the Seven Last Plagues. Satan is not working hand in glove with God. If that were true, it would like God having a wild dog who does what God wants whenever God steps back and gives the order to attack. The wicked deserve to be punished by the God they've disobeyed and offended. Their evil works are punished by God, not by Satan. It is God who judges the wicked. The wicked receive both punishment from God and "trouble" from Satan. This is exactly what happened in Egypt. The plagues of Egypt were not the only trouble that the Egyptians experienced. Notice that Rev. 18: 6 says that Babylon receives her "reward" "according to her works." Therefore, her punishment will be appropriate to her crimes. God is in charge of her punishment. Justice requires punishment for evil works. This justice is meted out by God, not by Satan. See EW 275-276 and compare it with Rev. 18: 6-8. If you can, read all of Ellen White's comments on these verses in the Exhaustive Ellen White Commentary on Revelation. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
skyblue888 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 All I have done is let the words of inspiration explain everything and yet I am accused of trying to explain away those very writings. May the Lord judge between you and me. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Guest Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 All the quotes are true in their context, but none of them deals with the heart of the matter. The ones that do, you gloss over and say they have been explained. Quote
skyblue888 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 Not so. The principles of interpretation given us by inspiration are applicable in all cases. God does not change after the close of probation or after the 1000 years. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
BobRyan Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 True - God is the same. The same God that spared Adam and Eve -- and expelled Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels. The same God that spared Cain -- and destroyed the entire world by a flood. The same God that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah - and spared Lot. The same God that gave Israel victory in Caanan -- then had foreign nations wipe them out. The same God that died on the cross - and then destroys all the wicked "by the sword that comes from His mouth" in Rev 19. The same God that raises all the wicked dead - and then rains fire and brimstone on them in a Lake of Fire event in Rev 20. As Christ said in Mat 10:28 "Fear Him who is able to destroy BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell". The same Christ who died on the Cross as the savior for all - in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
BobRyan Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 You cannot use the cross as an excuse to claim that Rev 20 does not actually happen. You cannot use Rev 20 to argue that the cross did not actually happen. Both are true. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.