Guest Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 How can you learn to understand and believe the New Covenant? Your happiness for now and forever depends on it. Yes! Didn't Jesus say, "God so loved that He gave, ... that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish ..."? To believe in Him means to believe that He Himself is Good News--the essence of the New Covenant. Confusion about the Two Covenants is cleared up as sunshine clears away fog by noting one question: WHO MAKES THE PROMISE? (1) If you or I make the promise to God, immediately it's Old Covenant. It's Peter promising that he will never deny Christ, and then doing it before the rooster crowed next morning. It's "all the people" promising at Mt. Sinai, "All that the Lord hath spoken we will do!" and then bowing down to a golden calf in a few days. The problem is simple: we humans don't keep our promises; in fact, we can't, because we have no righteousness of our own. Someone may say, "What's wrong with making good promises to God even if you do break them?" Several things: God Himself has never asked you to do so; and further, Paul says that making and breaking promises to God brings you into spiritual "bondage" (Gal. 4:24). It was the beginning of centuries of sad Israelite history that finally led them into the "bondage" of foreign captivity and then at the end, to crucify their Messiah. Those who think that the Old and New Covenants are the same thing are confusing liberty with slavery! (2) When God makes the promise, there you have the New Covenant. And believing the promise is liberty, not slavery. He always keeps His promise. "Delight thy self in the Lord; and He shall give thee the desires of thine heart" (Psalm 37:4). You may say, "That's such Good News--I can hardly believe He will ever do that for me!" Sarah couldn't believe it either, until she repented of her unbelief (Heb. 11:11). You can repent, too. That's the Good News! Quote
Twilight Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 It is interesting that we take hold of the new covenant promises by faith. That Gods promises become a gift to us. That our part is not to promise back, but act in faith. :-) Mark Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Moderators Gerr Posted October 21, 2009 Moderators Posted October 21, 2009 A covenant is agreement between 2 or more parties. God presents His obligations, and what's yours? Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 To believe His promises! Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Musicman1228 Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 Our obligation is to only believe His promises? Hmm! God's Covenant at Sinai was NOT a bi-lateral covenant, it was uni-lateral. God stipulated, Israel agreed. There was NO negotiation between God and Israel, no give and take to get the best deal for our side. God said, "Here is the Covenant, the 10 Commandments, and you WILL keep them. To show you how serious about this I am I am putting them on stone so they will be a permanent part of your identity." Israel agreed saying, "All that the Lord has said we will do." God DOES NOT make mistakes. How cruel would God have to be to make a Covenant with Israel that they could not keep no matter how hard they tried, and then blame them for not keeping it. Yet this is what we have been taught to believe today. Which is why there is confusion about an 'old' and 'new' covenant. There is only one Covenant, and that is God's. The Kingdom of Heaven is the one that proves they love Him because they keep His Commandments. The Kingdom of God is like a shell corporation; it is a structure into which God puts the people who will obey Him. It is those people that become His Kingdom. God put Israel into this structure and gave Israel two chances to prove their loyalty to Him by adhering to the 10 Commandments/Covenant. They failed both times. Therefore, Jesus removed Israel from this structure called the Kingdom of Heaven (in 33 CE) and the shell was left empty for a long time. Then right on time in 1843 CE God filled the shell corporation named "The Kingdom of Heaven" with another people; the people that are the stone cut out without hand in Dan. 2:34,35 and 44,45. It is further identified in the prophecy of Jesus about the 'Kingdom of Heaven' in Matt.25:1-13. God does not change His Covenant, only the people that will keep it. It used to be that the people of the Covenant were recognized by the fact that they kept the 10 Commandments, and were specifically identified by keeping the 4th. Unfortunately, this is becoming less and less important to this people because they want to become just like the other Christian religions of the world. Being different (peculiar) is embarrassing to them. Ancient Israel asked God for a human king, and look where that got them. I wonder if this will be repeated somehow with this new people? Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 The New Covenant is the promise to write the law in the heart: Quote: 31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (Jer. 31:31-33) Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Moderators Gerr Posted October 22, 2009 Moderators Posted October 22, 2009 To believe His promises! And what does it mean to believe His promises? Covenants have mutual obligations for it to be valid. But our God is SOOOOOO gracious that often He still blesses even when we don't comply. The Scriptures are replete with: If, if, if, if. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted October 22, 2009 Moderators Posted October 22, 2009 Our obligation is to only believe His promises? Hmm! God's Covenant at Sinai was NOT a bi-lateral covenant, it was uni-lateral. God stipulated, Israel agreed. First, you say the Sinai Covenant was NOT bilateral but a unilateral covenant. Then you proceed to say, "God stipulated, Israel agreed." Now you got me confused. Quote
Guest Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 Don't be so hard on him Gerry, he's more confused than you are. Quote
Musicman1228 Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 HEY TWILIGHT YES we have to have faith the GOD will do HIS part dgrimm60 This I do not understand; God ALWAYS does His part, why would you need faith to believe that? Faith is believing in something that is intangible. So if you need faith to believe that God will fulfill His commitments then from my perspective you really don't believe that God will do His part, you only HOPE He will. This is a perfect example of the difference between faith and trust. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Me:To believe His promises! Gerry:And what does it mean to believe His promises? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Guest Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Originally Posted By: dgrimm60 HEY TWILIGHT YES we have to have faith the GOD will do HIS part dgrimm60 This I do not understand; God ALWAYS does His part, why would you need faith to believe that? Faith is believing in something that is intangible. So if you need faith to believe that God will fulfill His commitments then from my perspective you really don't believe that God will do His part, you only HOPE He will. This is a perfect example of the difference between faith and trust. There you go throwing off on faith again. As if you didn't need it. Like I pointed out in another thread, you need gobs of faith to believe what you do. How can you be certain that the historical Jesus said those words? What proof do you have that He actually said that they were true? Do you believe it just because they are in the Gospel of Matthew? The fact is you don't have any proof MM, other than faith. It requires just as much faith to believe that those are Jesus' words, as it does for me to believe the parts of the Bible that you have thrown away. So you should never speak ill of faith again, because it takes lots of it to beleive what you do. It is misdirected faith, but faith never the less. Quote
BobRyan Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 HEY RICHARD THAT is very good illustration about the old and new covenants.... dgrimm60 Old Covenant "Obey and Live" -- first made with Adam and Eve. (And with all the unfallen worlds -- and with the unfallen angels). Works good until someone chooses sin. New Covenant "God so Loved that He gave... whosever BELIEVETH on Him might not die but have everlasting life" that starts with the 2Cor 5 "new creation" the John 3 "New Birth" the Rom 2 "circumcision of the heart by the Holy Spirit". in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Lutz13 Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Originally Posted By: dgrimm60 HEY RICHARD THAT is very good illustration about the old and new covenants.... dgrimm60 Old Covenant "Obey and Live" -- first made with Adam and Eve. (And with all the unfallen worlds -- and with the unfallen angels). Works good until someone chooses sin. New Covenant "God so Loved that He gave... whosever BELIEVETH on Him might not die but have everlasting life" that starts with the 2Cor 5 "new creation" the John 3 "New Birth" the Rom 2 "circumcision of the heart by the Holy Spirit". in Christ, Bob Amen Bob! Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted October 23, 2009 Moderators Posted October 23, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Me:To believe His promises! Gerry:And what does it mean to believe His promises? I don't know if you believe in the SOP or not. I'll take a chance and quote something, in answer to your question: Quote: How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself. Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God." Ps. 40:8. (DA 175, 176) From Scripture, I think the interview of Jesus Christ with Nicodemus addresses your question. So then, with the above quote in mind, the covenant is NOT a unilateral covenant. If it were, then God would save us all regardless of what we do or don't do. When "the thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ" and "the heart, the mind, are created anew," the believer is complying to the stipulations in the covenant. To say, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God," is just another way of saying what the Israelites said, "All that the Lord has said, we will do." Quote
Woody Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Quote: If it were, then God would save us all regardless of what we do or don't do. That would be a truthful statement. For if you believe that you are saved by what you do ... you believe in legalism. Praise God ... we are saved by what HE did and not what WE do. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
pnattmbtc Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 The Old Covenant was initiated by the people (the Israelites at Sinai), not by God. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Moderators Gerr Posted October 23, 2009 Moderators Posted October 23, 2009 Quote: If it were, then God would save us all regardless of what we do or don't do. That would be a truthful statement. For if you believe that you are saved by what you do ... you believe in legalism. Praise God ... we are saved by what HE did and not what WE do. Is everyone saved? That is clearly NOT the case. If everyone is saved solely by what God has done, then why is not everyone saved? Because it matters what WE DO with what God has done. Look at the Covenant model of the Plan of Salvation. God calls it "My Covenant" because it is HIS own initiative and HIS own plan extented to lost people. But the Covenant of Grace does no one any good UNLESS they DO something with it, i.e. accept it and comply with the conditions. If you call that legalism, then don't blame me. It's God's Covenant plan after all. While salvation is by grace through faith alone, yet WHAT YOU DO WITH that grace determines whether you are saved or lost. That's the paradox. If you consider that what I DO with that grace is WORKING for my salvation, then I AM a legalist. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted October 23, 2009 Moderators Posted October 23, 2009 The Old Covenant was initiated by the people (the Israelites at Sinai), not by God. You might want to re-study this subject, starting with Ex 2:24; 6:4-5; 19:5. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted October 23, 2009 Moderators Posted October 23, 2009 PS "UNLESS you EAT (an act) the flesh of the Son of Man, and DRINK (an act) His blood, you have NO life in you." "UNLESS you repent (an act) you will all likewise perish." Quote
Woody Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Quote: then I AM a legalist I plead the fifth on this ... Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Musicman1228 Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. Rev.3:4-5. The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Rev.3:12. The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. Rev.3:21. Conquer=overcome. Overcome what? Overcome how? Someone please show me where in these verses Jesus Christ says anything about overcoming by grace through faith. Did Jesus overcome sin through grace by faith? Or did His actions overcome sin? We are to overcome as He did. His reward in sitting down on His Father's throne was not achieved by grace, because God does not extend grace to Himself. If He did not use grace to overcome sin then how can we expect to overcome sin using something that He did not use? We are to overcome sin the same way in which He overcame sin - by being obedient to the will of God. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Me:The Old Covenant was initiated by the people (the Israelites at Sinai), not by God. G:You might want to re-study this subject, starting with Ex 2:24; 6:4-5; 19:5. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Conquer=overcome. Overcome what? Overcome how? Someone please show me where in these verses Jesus Christ says anything about overcoming by grace through faith. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
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