Last Day Events (Sunday Law)

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: John317

We can certainly agree that Saul was a wicked person-- the chief of sinners. He would not deny it. In fact' date=' Saul readily confirmed it. He was worthy of eternal death. So are you and I. At least I know that of myself I am worthy of eternal death.

So to say that Saul was a totally wicked person is not news to anyone, least of all to God or to Saul.

But God justifies the unrighteous and makes them into righteous people through His unmerited favor and by the power of the Holy Spirit. In this way God raises the dead-- both those who are literally dead and those who are spiritually so.

The record is that God showed a vision to a man named Ananias, in which God revealed that Paul would have to suffer many things for Christ's sake. Everything God showed Ananias is confirmed by history. Paul went on to make many converts to Christ and to finally die for His Savior. Even though dead, the great apostle's inspired letters continue to speak to us from the grave and through them the Spirit proves the creative power of God to change the worst of criminals into dedicated servants of His Son.

Saul was a brand pulled from the fire. He freely and joyfully acknowledged Christ as His Lord and Savior and gladly suffered for Him-- even to the point of martyrdom. He was a wicked man, yes, but one whose life demonstrates the power of God to change slaves of Satan into slaves of righteousness.

[/quote']

Amen John!

You have just described the spirit of the Gospel.

Praise God!

sky

Amen

[skyblue888]

I don't find anywhere in the bible where Jesus told us that God justifies the unrighteous and makes them into righteous people through His unmerited favor and by the power of the Holy Spirit. Are you just making this stuff up John317? And what do we know of Ananias? All hearsay isn't it? Peter, James and John as the other disciples were alive about then were they not? Then if this actually was Jesus talking to Saul why didn't the command say to go see one of them?

There is no argument that Paul had a great following--but that alone does not make one a true apostle or prophet of God. Paul's gospel, that he agreed was his alone, was one of righteousness by faith and not works. For those who don't feel the need to keep all of the ten commandments, this is truly good news, even though it is mistakenly wrong. The opposite of Paul's gospel is the gospel according to Muhammad.

Putting this in prospective, it appears to me that the prophecy about the king of the north verses the king of the south could be or might involve these two different gospels. Didn't God say they both were evil?

Try Romans 4:5!

"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness."

See also Luke 1:6.

"And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."

[cardw]

Quote:

Thus we read, "As the work of Sabbath reform extends, this rejection of the Divine law to avoid the claims of the fourth commandment will become well-nigh universal. The teachings of religious leaders have opened the door to infidelity, to spiritualism, and to contempt of God's holy law, and upon these leaders rests a fearful responsibility for the iniquity that exists in the Christian world." The Great Controversy, p.587.

Now really, how likely do you think this is? A national Sunday law?

I just came back from the Freedom from Religion Foundation national convention. A sociologist presented a study in which it has been discovered that non-believers have risen from 10% of the population to 35%.

And the main focus of this foundation is the separation of Church and State. The outcry that would rise, if any religious sponsored state law were even discussed, would be huge. Can you imagine the Jewish lobby staying quiet?

Today many Catholic churches are holding Saturday mass. It really doesn't appear that the day of worship is all that big of deal to them.

When are people going to realize that Ellen White was talking about her day, not the future? Remember they were still setting dates for the coming of Christ up to 7 years after 1844. She was looking at the attitudes of the day and stating the the last days were upon them right then. There were still blue laws on the books from the 1700s.

All of this stuff comes from re-writes of the source material for Early Writings. It was re-written to update it, because the source material was based on a view that saw that the latter rain was already on them and only those who had received the former rain of the Millerite message were eligible for the latter.

This is the basis of the whole shut door controversy. Ellen White directly contradicts herself in vision on these matters. She and others were making this up so that they could make sense of the great disappointment. They were trying to save face and couldn't accept that they had been wrong about Jesus coming.

All of this energy and time is being put into a myth and the fear surrounding it.

[Woody]

Quote:

"As the work of Sabbath reform extends, this rejection of the Divine law to avoid the claims of the fourth commandment will become well-nigh universal. The teachings of religious leaders have opened the door to infidelity, to spiritualism, and to contempt of God's holy law, and upon these leaders rests a fearful responsibility for the iniquity that exists in the Christian world." The Great Controversy, p.587.

I think this might be an over-statement.

Consider this:

Quote:

u·ni·verse (yōō'nə-vûrs')

n.

1. All matter and energy, including the earth, the galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole.

I hardly think that the other worlds including heaven ... will have Sunday Laws.

[Guest]

It's not an over statement, it means world wide......just like,

Universal health care means nation wide.

[skyblue888]

Quote:

Thus we read, "As the work of Sabbath reform extends, this rejection of the Divine law to avoid the claims of the fourth commandment will become well-nigh universal. The teachings of religious leaders have opened the door to infidelity, to spiritualism, and to contempt of God's holy law, and upon these leaders rests a fearful responsibility for the iniquity that exists in the Christian world." The Great Controversy, p.587.

Now really, how likely do you think this is? A national Sunday law?

I just came back from the Freedom from Religion Foundation national convention. A sociologist presented a study in which it has been discovered that non-believers have risen from 10% of the population to 35%.

And the main focus of this foundation is the separation of Church and State. The outcry that would rise, if any religious sponsored state law were even discussed, would be huge. Can you imagine the Jewish lobby staying quiet?

Today many Catholic churches are holding Saturday mass. It really doesn't appear that the day of worship is all that big of deal to them.

When are people going to realize that Ellen White was talking about her day, not the future? Remember they were still setting dates for the coming of Christ up to 7 years after 1844. She was looking at the attitudes of the day and stating the the last days were upon them right then. There were still blue laws on the books from the 1700s.

All of this stuff comes from re-writes of the source material for Early Writings. It was re-written to update it, because the source material was based on a view that saw that the latter rain was already on them and only those who had received the former rain of the Millerite message were eligible for the latter.

This is the basis of the whole shut door controversy. Ellen White directly contradicts herself in vision on these matters. She and others were making this up so that they could make sense of the great disappointment. They were trying to save face and couldn't accept that they had been wrong about Jesus coming.

All of this energy and time is being put into a myth and the fear surrounding it.

Time will tell and I don't think we will have to wait very much longer now for all of these things to happen. Then you will know that she was a true prophet of God.

sky

[skyblue888]

Order of Last Day Events

Post # 19

YET FUTURE

It is of course evident that this event is still future. Not yet have the churches secured the power of the law of the land in the United States first of all, to enforce their dogmas. But that time is coming with the utmost certainty and as surely as it comes, then as surely will the fall of Babylon the Great be complete. And then, just so surely will the time have come when the message announcing that fall will ring out under the direction of the angel who lightens the whole earth with his glory. It will go then as a present truth in very fact indeed.

As stated previously in this series, the point of time when the image of the beast is set up is a land mark indeed. It is a point of time when a stage of committal by both the world and the true church of God is reached from which there can be and will be no turning back. It is a point to which the devil is now developing the apostasy in the churches under his control and it is also a point which the Lord is developing a faithful remnant to fight His battles in that decisive day. These two lines of development will come to the same focal point at the same time. There is but little to be fulfilled before that critical hour is reached.

The one truth above all other is this that the coming of the fall of Babylon the Great brings us to that point of time when the mighty angel of Revelation 18 will begin to sound with a power which will lighten the whole earth with his glory. It must be clear to all that until that point of time is reached when Babylon the Great has actually fully and finally fallen then that message can never be preached.

"I saw angels hurrying to and fro in Heaven, descending to the earth, and again ascending to Heaven, preparing for the fulfilment of some important event. Then I saw another mighty angel commissioned to descend to the earth, to unite his voice with the third angel, and give power and force to his message. Great power and glory were imparted to the angel, and as he descended, the earth was lightened with his glory. The light which attended this angel penetrated everywhere, as he cried mightily with a strong voice, "Babylon--the Great--is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.' The message of the fall of Babylon, as given by the second angel, is repeated, with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the churches since 1844. The work of this angel comes in at the right time to join in the last great work of the third angel's message, as it swells to a loud cry. And the people of God are thus prepared to stand in the hour of temptation, which they are soon to meet. I saw a great light resting upon them, and they united to fearlessly proclaim the third angel's message." Early Writings, p.277.

Then it is plain and clear that the order of events is that, just as soon as the powers of church and state combine to enforce the decrees of the church in respect to the Sunday law, then the fall of Babylon the Great is complete. This will be the signal for the descent of the mighty angel of Revelation 18:1-4, which will be the giving of the final warning, the loud cry of the third angel in the mighty power of the Holy Spirit in the outpouring of the latter rain.

May the Lord of Heaven and earth stir up our souls to pray as we have never prayed before for a moral and spiritual fitness to face that hour when it shall come, to stand on the right side in the whole controversy, and to be used by the Lord in the finishing of His work.

to be continued

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: cardw

Quote:

Thus we read, "As the work of Sabbath reform extends, this rejection of the Divine law to avoid the claims of the fourth commandment will become well-nigh universal. The teachings of religious leaders have opened the door to infidelity, to spiritualism, and to contempt of God's holy law, and upon these leaders rests a fearful responsibility for the iniquity that exists in the Christian world." The Great Controversy, p.587.

Now really, how likely do you think this is? A national Sunday law?

I just came back from the Freedom from Religion Foundation national convention. A sociologist presented a study in which it has been discovered that non-believers have risen from 10% of the population to 35%.

And the main focus of this foundation is the separation of Church and State. The outcry that would rise, if any religious sponsored state law were even discussed, would be huge. Can you imagine the Jewish lobby staying quiet?

Today many Catholic churches are holding Saturday mass. It really doesn't appear that the day of worship is all that big of deal to them.

When are people going to realize that Ellen White was talking about her day, not the future? Remember they were still setting dates for the coming of Christ up to 7 years after 1844. She was looking at the attitudes of the day and stating the the last days were upon them right then. There were still blue laws on the books from the 1700s.

All of this stuff comes from re-writes of the source material for Early Writings. It was re-written to update it, because the source material was based on a view that saw that the latter rain was already on them and only those who had received the former rain of the Millerite message were eligible for the latter.

This is the basis of the whole shut door controversy. Ellen White directly contradicts herself in vision on these matters. She and others were making this up so that they could make sense of the great disappointment. They were trying to save face and couldn't accept that they had been wrong about Jesus coming.

All of this energy and time is being put into a myth and the fear surrounding it.

Time will tell and I don't think we will have to wait very much longer now for all of these things to happen. Then you will know that she was a true prophet of God.

sky

Amen!!

That's right sky....

[skyblue888]

Yes Richard and do you remember this statement?

"Heretofore those who presented the truths of the third angel's message have often been regarded as mere alarmists. Their predictions that religious intolerance would gain control in the United States, that church and state would unite to persecute those who keep the commandments of God, have been pronounced groundless and absurd. It has been confidently declared that this land could never become other than what it has been--the defender of religious freedom. But as the question of enforcing Sunday observance is widely agitated, the event so long doubted and disbelieved is seen to be approaching, and the third message will produce an effect which it could not have had before." The Great Controversy, pp.605,606.

sky

[Guest]

Yes Richard and do you remember this statement?

"Heretofore those who presented the truths of the third angel's message have often been regarded as mere alarmists. Their predictions that religious intolerance would gain control in the United States, that church and state would unite to persecute those who keep the commandments of God, have been pronounced groundless and absurd. It has been confidently declared that this land could never become other than what it has been--the defender of religious freedom. But as the question of enforcing Sunday observance is widely agitated, the event so long doubted and disbelieved is seen to be approaching, and the third message will produce an effect which it could not have had before." The Great Controversy, pp.605,606.

sky

Yes I do...

[skyblue888]

Order of Last Day Events

Post # 19

YET FUTURE

It is of course evident that this event is still future. Not yet have the churches secured the power of the law of the land in the United States first of all, to enforce their dogmas. But that time is coming with the utmost certainty and as surely as it comes, then as surely will the fall of Babylon the Great be complete. And then, just so surely will the time have come when the message announcing that fall will ring out under the direction of the angel who lightens the whole earth with his glory. It will go then as a present truth in very fact indeed.

As stated previously in this series, the point of time when the image of the beast is set up is a land mark indeed. It is a point of time when a stage of committal by both the world and the true church of God is reached from which there can be and will be no turning back. It is a point to which the devil is now developing the apostasy in the churches under his control and it is also a point which the Lord is developing a faithful remnant to fight His battles in that decisive day. These two lines of development will come to the same focal point at the same time. There is but little to be fulfilled before that critical hour is reached.

The one truth above all other is this that the coming of the fall of Babylon the Great brings us to that point of time when the mighty angel of Revelation 18 will begin to sound with a power which will lighten the whole earth with his glory. It must be clear to all that until that point of time is reached when Babylon the Great has actually fully and finally fallen then that message can never be preached.

"I saw angels hurrying to and fro in Heaven, descending to the earth, and again ascending to Heaven, preparing for the fulfilment of some important event. Then I saw another mighty angel commissioned to descend to the earth, to unite his voice with the third angel, and give power and force to his message. Great power and glory were imparted to the angel, and as he descended, the earth was lightened with his glory. The light which attended this angel penetrated everywhere, as he cried mightily with a strong voice, "Babylon--the Great--is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.' The message of the fall of Babylon, as given by the second angel, is repeated, with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the churches since 1844. The work of this angel comes in at the right time to join in the last great work of the third angel's message, as it swells to a loud cry. And the people of God are thus prepared to stand in the hour of temptation, which they are soon to meet. I saw a great light resting upon them, and they united to fearlessly proclaim the third angel's message." Early Writings, p.277.

Then it is plain and clear that the order of events is that, just as soon as the powers of church and state combine to enforce the decrees of the church in respect to the Sunday law, then the fall of Babylon the Great is complete. This will be the signal for the descent of the mighty angel of Revelation 18:1-4, which will be the giving of the final warning, the loud cry of the third angel in the mighty power of the Holy Spirit in the outpouring of the latter rain.

May the Lord of Heaven and earth stir up our souls to pray as we have never prayed before for a moral and spiritual fitness to face that hour when it shall come, to stand on the right side in the whole controversy, and to be used by the Lord in the finishing of His work.

to be continued

Order of Last Day Events

Post # 20

A WORLD WIDE UNION

Our course of study has now established for us from the prophetic word that the time when the fall of Babylon the Great becomes an established fact, is that point of time when the churches secure the power of the state in the United States of America to enforce the decrees and the dogmas of the church. The decree which will be the special subject of such enforcement will be the one concerning the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for which there is no scriptural authority whatsoever.

We have seen that this truth is so plainly taught that none need to err in the knowing of it. This thing is coming exactly as prophesied and not one of us can stop it, for the powers that be in church and state are determined upon it, and they will have it as fast as they can gain the opportunity. At any time anyone may find some doubt creeping into the mind in regard to this, then let that one read again the words of Revelation 13:11-18.

So much is stated in the Word of God about this thing appearing in Christendom, and, at the same time from the human point of view, it seems so impossible for this thing to appear among the so-called non-Christian nations, that it is necessary for us to consider this question at this stage of our study, as to how extensive this thing will be in the world in the end. That is to say, in the restoration of the Beast to power with the establishment of the Image of the Beast, how much of the world is involved? Does this thing appear only in Christendom or does it extend to the non-Christian nations as well? Will Russia, China and the Muslim world also set up an image to the Beast in their countries and enforce the Sunday as an act of homage to the Papacy as will be done in the Christian nations of the world?

Set the Word of God aside and look at the world scene and how swiftly would we declare that it could never happen in such lands as India, China, Arabia and Russia. Look at the manifest hostility, scorn and even open hatred revealed in these nations toward the Christian religion in the world today. So utterly are they opposed to the western nations, who have been losing prestige and standing before them, that one could hardly believe that they ever could or would do homage to the Papacy!

But God sees not as man sees and He knows better than we, the forces which are even now at work in these vast dominions and powers of the earth. God sees and understands long before it even appears that which we neither see nor understand when it is right here with us. But, in His great mercy He has not kept selfishly to Himself that which He has seen and understood of that which we should know for our best good.

Plainly He has revealed these things to us in the Word of truth. Ever in the past we have found every such prophetic utterance to be absolutely true and reliable, and from this we can know that in every prophecy as yet unfulfilled, there is the same absolute truth and reliability. When the God of Heaven tells us that it is going to be so, then we just simply know that that is exactly how it is going to be.

to be continued

[John317]

Quote:

"As the work of Sabbath reform extends, this rejection of the Divine law to avoid the claims of the fourth commandment will become well-nigh universal. The teachings of religious leaders have opened the door to infidelity, to spiritualism, and to contempt of God's holy law, and upon these leaders rests a fearful responsibility for the iniquity that exists in the Christian world." The Great Controversy, p.587.

I think this might be an over-statement.

Consider this:

Quote:

u·ni·verse (yōō'nə-vûrs')

n.

1. All matter and energy, including the earth, the galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole.

I hardly think that the other worlds including heaven ... will have Sunday Laws.

Are you serious?

[skyblue888]

Order of Last Day Events

Post # 21

THE WHOLE WORLD

So we take our unaided eyes off the confusing and discordant world scene, and look instead upon the Word of God and ask the grave question which is before us and in that Word we shall find that nothing less than the whole world will give its allegiance to the Papacy. Every nation, kindred, tongue and people on the face of the whole globe will do this and nothing else. It matters not that witness of sight and circumstances may deny this at the time when this is written. The fact is that the Lord has said that it will be so and therefore that is how it will be. God has spoken, and it is only a matter of time before that which He has spoken will most certainly be fulfilled.

Let us turn to the prophetic word and see the truth of it written there. In Revelation 13:8, after reading of the restoration of the Papacy to power comes this statement, "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

In this verse are brought to view two classes. There are those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life, and obviously they are the ones who serve God in spirit and in truth in every nation, kindred, tongue and people. These are the only exceptions given. All the rest of those who dwell on the earth shall worship the beast. In that day we are going to be among the one or the other of those two classes whether we like it or not. Either we shall be among those who have their names written in the book of life and therefore have the power to resist the power of the beast and his image or we shall be worshipers of that beast and his image.

How this will be is made plain from previous verses in the chapter. In verse 4, it is evident that a situation arises wherein the beast is able to make such a display of power as to intimidate the rest of the world to the place where they say, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?" This is but another way of saying that the beast is too powerful to give anyone the slightest hope of victory in any contest with such a power as he. And so it is then that "power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations," verse 7, as a result of which all who dwell upon the earth shall worship him willingly or unwillingly except for those whose names are written in the book of life.

We look upon the world today and we see that the nations of the earth are divided in their attitude to the papal power with the larger proportion of the earth's people in positive open hostility to the Papacy, and we ask as to how it could be that such could come to the place where they would worship this potentate!

to be continued

[skyblue888]

Order of Last Day Events

Post # 22 (The Whole World) continued

But when we look upon that scene as it is today and draw the conclusions we do, we do it without realizing that our conclusion is dependent upon our holding a certain concept as to what worship is. We naturally think of worship as being a willing thing, of being something that is given because we want to give it. Without a doubt this must be true so far as the worship of the true God is concerned, for it is the only kind of worship acceptable to Him. But it is not true so far as the worship of the Beast and his image is concerned. This is a worship which is forced from the worshiper because the power of the potentate is of such magnitude as to command that worship whether the person desires to give it or not.

For every truth in the New Testament there is a type in the Old and the type of the enforcing of the Sunday worship on the part of modern Babylon is to be found in the enforcement of the worship of the golden image on the plains of Dura in the days of King Nebuchadnezzar. He was the pope of that day and he it was who called the people of every nation to the worship of his golden image. In Revelation 13, we read that the death penalty hangs over the head of all those who do not worship the Beast and his image. This is but the antitype of the type found in the days of king Nebuchadnezzar, for he threatened with death all those who refused to bow down before the golden image. As it was then so it will be again.

At that time there were gathered the rulers of the people of all the nations of the whole world over which Babylon then had the power. And every one of them was required to worship the power of Babylon under pain of death. Knowing well the spirit of rebellion which dwells in the hearts of the conquered, we can know that many of those who bowed that day bowed, not because they had a mind to worship the golden image, the symbol of the power of Babylon, but because they had a mind not to go in the burning fiery furnace. They worshiped it is true, but not because of any love for Babylon, but because of fear of her power, and because they were so held in the grip of her power that they had no choice but to obey or to perish.

That which has been will be. Therefore the hatred which these nations possess for the Papacy and the western world which protects and fosters the Papacy is not evidence at all in the case for not believing that the papacy will gain the worship of the whole world. She will do it because she will obtain the power to do it. A situation will develop through the power of spiritualism and the power of the United States under the leadership of Apostate Protestantism, which will give back to the Papacy the supremacy of the world.

On the plains of Dura there were two classes of people before that image and two only. They were the people of the whole world who bowed before the image and there were the faithful few, only three in number, who had no fear of the power of Babylon and whose names were written in the book of life. These alone did not bow before that image, and so it will be again. But a faithful few will know the power of God, and thus will be able to stand against the power of Babylon the Great.

to be continued

[phkrause]

Redwood I believe when she said universal she meant this world. I know that there have been statements made like the World Series, but its really only meant for the US of A. And other statements like Universal Health Care and its again only in the USofA and not the whole universe. I know you know better, not to take EGW out of context.

pk

[skyblue888]

Order of Last Day Events

Post # 22

THE WHOLE WORLD (continued)

It is the Third Angel who gives the specific warning against receiving the mark in his forehead or in his hand. To whom does he give this warning? The answer must be to those who are in danger of doing the very thing against which this warning is given. It therefore must be that the angel will go wherever the people of the earth are in peril of this thing. If there is no danger to any particular people from this peril, then he will not take the specific warning against the beast and his image to them, but another warning to cover the particular peril in which they stood. That is to say, if, in the last days, Russia and China and Arabia were not going to worship the beast and his image, then there would be no point in warning them against something with which they would never be faced. Therefore, the third angel would not go to them.

But the third angel does go to them. This is made certain by the word of the prophecy which states that "The third angel followed them," that is, the other two angels. Of the first of the other two it is specifically stated that he goes to "every nation, and kindred, and tongue and people," with his message.

Therefore, if the third angel follows him, it can only be that he too takes his message to every nation, and warns every such people of their danger of worshiping the beast and his image. This can only mean that the beast shall be worshiped by people of every nation, kindred and tongue, otherwise the warning would not go to every such people. If there was to be another test to the people of other lands then a different angel would carry a different warning to them.

to be continued

[John317]

I don't find anywhere in the bible where Jesus told us that God justifies the unrighteous and makes them into righteous people through His unmerited favor and by the power of the Holy Spirit. Are you just making this stuff up John317?

Here's a start:

Gen. 15: 6-- "And he [Abraham] believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness."

Ps. 32: 1,2-- "Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity."

Ps. 51: 1,2-- "Have mercy upon me, O God... Blot out my transgressions according to the multitude of your tender mercies. Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

Read entire Ps. 51.

Luke 18: 9-14. "... I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other..."

Quote:

And what do we know of Ananias? All hearsay isn't it?

Yet you want us to ignore the book of Acts, written in the first century, in order to follow the testimony of someone living 2000 years later who wasn't there and knows nothing but what he reads.

If Acts is "heresay" to you, then so are the words of Jesus in the Gospels. It's the same "heresay" that puts the pre-incarnate Christ in heaven and says He was the creator before He came to this earth as a man.

Quote:

Peter, James and John as the other disciples were alive about then were they not? Then if this actually was Jesus talking to Saul why didn't the command say to go see one of them?

Because God doesn't think as you do. Since when do humans think they know better than God as to what He should do?

Namaan asked why the prophet Elisha didn't order him to go to some wonderful, clean river and instead told him to wash himself 7 times in the filthy Jordan.

[Woody]

The dictionary did that pk ... not me. Ha Ha :)

[phkrause]

I figured that Redwood. I know we use words that have different meanings than the way we use them.

pk

[cardw]

Quote:

Time will tell and I don't think we will have to wait very much longer now for all of these things to happen. Then you will know that she was a true prophet of God.

sky

The church has been saying this for a hundred years. One can always say, its going to eventually happen. It is actually get less and less likely to happen world wide because of the destructive nature of religious fundamentalism.

The outcry against organized religion is increasing. The majority of Europe is becoming more and more secular. It is only the United States where evangelical Christianity has its last hold. And it is loosing more and more of its young people due to the radical nature of its message. Estimates are 80% loss.

The internet has allowed more and more people to become educated in the lack of evidence for the claims of Christianity and other organized religions. The last hold out of blue laws have been repealed and church attendance is way down. The retail business in this country, football, and the Super Bowl have cemented Sunday as a secular period of time.

What is more likely is that Ellen White was looking at what was happening in her time and was fully expecting to be persecuted for Sabbath observance because Christianity had much more cultural influence. And these statements were developed to manipulate people into believing in her prophecies because even then they were fantastic. All you have to do for any prophecy is to state well someday it will come true.

This thing will simply continue to hang on because reason has no influence once someone has committed to this nonsense. It becomes an ego thing because its hard to admit that someone could be wrong about this sort of thing.

I know, because I grew up with this stuff and promoted it myself. There is simply little evidence for this mythology.

[skyblue888]

I agree with just about everything you just said except that you are wrong as to why these things have not come to materialize yet. There has been a long delay but you may be sure that the prophecy of Revelaion 13 will be fulfilled.

sky

[skyblue888]

Order of Last Day Events

Post # 23

Some specific statements

Here now are some specific statements which tell in just so many words that the test will be the same in every part of the world. "As America, the land of religious liberty, shall unite with the Papacy in forcing the conscience and compelling men to honour the false sabbath, the people of every country on the globe will be led to follow her example...Foreign nations will follow the example of the United States. Though she leads out, yet the same crisis will come upon our people in all parts of the earth." Testimonies, vol.6:18,395.

These statements need no comment as their message is too plain to be misunderstood. Along with them goes the following:

"History will be repeated. False religion will be exalted. The first day of the week, a common working day, possessing no sanctity whatsoever, will be set up as was the image at Babylon. All nations and tongues and peoples will be commanded to worship this spurious sabbath. This is Satan's plan to make of no account the day instituted by God and given to all the world as a memorial of creation. The decree enforcing the worship of this day is to go forth to all the world. Trial and persecution will come to all who, in obedience to the Word of God, refuse to worship this false sabbath. Force is the last resort of every false religion. At first it tries attraction, as the king of Babylon tried the power of music and outward show. If these attractions, invented by men inspired by Satan, fail to make men worship the image, the hungry flames of the furnace were ready to consume them. So it will be now. The papacy has exercised her power to compel men to obey her, and she will continue to do so. We need the same spirit that was manifested by God's servants in the conflict with paganism." Signs of the Times, May 6, 1897.

"The world is filled with storm and war and variance. Yet under one head, the papal power, the people will unite to oppose God in the person of His witnesses." Testimonies, vol.7, 182.

Inasmuch as the subject matter of this statement is the world, then the people will unite, even though they now are at war and variance with each other. They will have one head and that will be the papal head, Babylon the Great.

Thus, "There will be a universal bond of union, one great harmony, a confederacy of Satan's forces... In the warfare to be waged in the last days, there will be united in opposition to God's people all the corrupt powers that have apostatized from allegiance to the law of Jehovah." Manuscript 24, 1891.

These statements leave no doubt whatsoever as to the fact that the same image to the beast will be made in every other land, as it will be in America. It leaves no doubt but that Russia and China and the Muslim nations will be among those nations who will join in this last great apostasy, not so much because they have a mind to do it, but because they will have a mind to escape the punishment that Babylon will surely inflict on all those who do not submit to her authority. They will do it, not because they want to, but because, not having the power of God in them as did Meshak, Shadrack and Abednego, they will have nothing with which to resist and overcome the power of Babylon the Great.

They will do it because they will have no choice but to do it or to perish. But should it be that there are still some who cannot accept that China and India for instance, will bow to the papal power, then here is a statement actually naming these two lands as countries where the test of the beast and his image will be imposed upon the people. Let us read it now:

"Among earth's inhabitants, scattered in every land, there are those who have not bowed the knee to Baal. Like the stars of heaven, which appear only at night, these faithful ones will shine forth when darkness covers the earth and gross darkness the people. In heathen Africa, in the Catholic lands of Europe and of South America, in China, In India, in the islands of the sea, and in all the dark corners of the earth, God has in reserve a firmament of chosen ones that will yet shine forth amidst the darkness, revealing clearly to an apostate world the transforming power of obedience to His law. Even now they are appearing in every nation, among every tongue and people; and in the hour of deepest apostasy, when Satan's supreme effort is made to cause 'all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond' to receive, under penalty of death, the sign of allegiance to a false rest day, these faithful ones, 'blameless and harmless, the sons of God without rebuke,' will 'shine as lights in the world.' Revelation 13:16; Phil.2:15... The darker the night the more brilliantly will they shine." P.K.188-189.

Read the statement over very carefully and it is then to be seen how plainly it teaches that Babylon the Great will seek to force all in all parts of the world to worship the false day of rest as Nebuchadnezzar sought to have the peoples of all nations worship the image in his day. The test will come right to them where they are.

to be continued

[skyblue888]

Order of Last Day Events

Post # 24

ON TO THE END

Thus the fall of Babylon the Great begins in the United States first of all, but, what is done there is but the beginning of a wave to sweep around the entire world until every nation and every kindred and every tongue and every people have followed in her train until there is not one power of church or state but has given themselves over to the worship of the beast and his image. As this thing spreads rapidly across the world there will very shortly come a time when the last power of earth shall join that vast confederacy of evil to take its part in the one universal bond of union against the God of Heaven.

When that comes, then the close of probation will also come. Beyond that point of time, there will be no more day of grace for anyone. Then it is that the God of Heaven will rise in vengeance and the plagues of Babylon will be poured out without measure into the cup of indignation. "The substitution of the laws of men for the law of God, the exaltation, by mere human authority, of Sunday in the place of the Bible Sabbath, is the last act in the drama. When this substitution becomes universal, God will reveal Himself. He will arise in His majesty to shake terribly the earth. He will come out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the world for their iniquity and the earth shall disclose her blood and no more cover her slain." Testimonies vol.7, 141.

"It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world has shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would, He will withdraw His blessing from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same... Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible that that which came upon Jerusalem of old." G.C.589,614.

It is coming, surely coming upon the earth, this one, last, vast universal bond of allegiance to the papal power. Those alone will have the power to stand then who have their name written in the Lamb's book of life. We know that it is coming upon the earth and upon the people of God. It is coming. The time has been long delayed but it will come as surely as the night follows the day. Today is the day of preparation.

"The storm is coming, relentless in its fury. Are we prepared to meet it? Are we one with Christ as He is one with the Father?" RH Vol.4, p.242. For, "The only condition upon which man's freedom is possible is that of becoming one with Christ." Desire of Ages, p.466. John 17:21,22,26.

"Every sinner must have virtue that he does not possess by himself. Our door-post must be marked by the atoning blood, thus acknowledging our own inefficiency and the merits of the Lamb of God." Signs of the Times, Vol.2, p.228.

to be continued