"In Christ" what does that mean?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Robert

What Christ did 2000 years ago He did in our humanity....The deed is done...it is complete. You can't add to that gift...your receiving it doesn't make it so....It simply makes it effective in your life. You go from "under law" to under grace. [/quote']

Of course what He did 2000 yrs ago was complete. We can't add to it. But what He is doing for us NOW is on-going!

"If anyone does not abide [present tense, not something done 2000 yrs ago] in me, he is thrown away like a branch & withers," Jn 15:6 ESV.

What He did 2000 yrs ago does no one any good until it is accepted, applied, and appropriated into the life.

It is as we remain in the promises of God that we remain in Christ.

Such as:

My old man is crucified with Him.

I am born again and the "new man" is raised up.

Then through the inward dwelling and leading of the Holy Spirit, we walk in obedience to Christ.

So I claim what Christ did for me 2000 years ago and apply it to my life now.

Some people want to leave all the application in the past.

This then excuses sin in them.

But the application of the promises to the individual is always in the present.

So I agree with your general point here Gerry.

Mark

[Twilight]

in reading some of these posts i find it sad that some have not worked out their issues with the legalistic, and it is alive and well,

and that others are putting the cart before the horse.

Which posts are you addressing Teresa.

Vague criticism does not help the discussion move forward.

Can I suggest that you please be a little more specific so people can respond to your post?

Mark :-)

[pnattmbtc]

Wonderful thoughts, teresa. The last quote you presented

Quote:

If those who today are teaching the word of God, would uplift the cross of Christ higher and still higher, their ministry would be far more successful. If sinners can be led to give one earnest look at the cross, if they can obtain a full view of the crucified Saviour, they will realize the depth of God's compassion and the sinfulness of sin. {AA 209.2}

reminded me of another beautiful one:

Quote:

Hanging upon the cross Christ was the gospel. Now we have a message, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sins of the world." Will not our church members keep their eyes fixed on a crucified and risen Saviour, in whom their hopes of eternal life are centered? This is our message, our argument, our doctrine, our warning to the impenitent, our encouragement for the sorrowing, the hope for every believer. If we can awaken an interest in men's minds that will cause them to fix their eyes on Christ, we may step aside, and ask them only to continue to fix their eyes upon the Lamb of God....

As the sinner sees Jesus as He is, an all compassionate Saviour, hope and assurance take possession of his soul. The helpless soul is cast without any reservation upon Jesus. None can bear away from the vision of Christ Jesus crucified a lingering doubt. Unbelief is gone.(SDABC 1113)

One of my favorites! I haven't thought of it for awhile. Thank you for making me think of it.

While looking for this one, I came across a couple of other nice ones as well:

Quote:

Let the repenting sinner fix his eyes upon "the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" (John 1:29); and by beholding, he becomes changed. His fear is turned to joy, his doubts to hope. Gratitude springs up. The stony heart is broken. A tide of love sweeps into the soul. Christ is in him a well of water springing up unto everlasting life. When we see Jesus, a Man of Sorrows and acquainted with grief, working to save the lost, slighted, scorned, derided, driven from city to city till His mission was accomplished; when we behold Him in Gethsemane, sweating great drops of blood, and on the cross dying in agony,--when we see this, self will no longer clamor to be recognized. Looking unto Jesus, we shall be ashamed of our coldness, our lethargy, our self-seeking.

We shall be willing to be anything or nothing, so that we may do heart service for the Master. We shall rejoice to bear the cross after Jesus, to endure trial, shame, or persecution for His dear sake. (DA 439)

Quote:

Draw not a glance to yourself, but cry with earnest, heartfelt interest, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." This is the Christian's message to the world. This is the effective argument. Encourage your heart to put forth earnest endeavors to induce perishing souls to fix their eyes upon Him who was uplifted upon the cross; and remember that as you do this, unseen angels are . . . impressing it upon the heart, and leading the soul to believe in Jesus. The sinner is enabled to see Jesus as He is--full of compassion, pity, and love--and he exclaims, "Thy gentleness hath made me great" (Psalm 18:35) (Review and Herald, June 30, 1896).

[Twilight]

The truth is that God made the plan of salvation to accomplish our transformation from rebels to loyal freewill subjects of His kingdom. We cannot receive salvation without active participation and cooperation on our part. This is not a passive role. We are to actively seek the Lord. We are to actively open the door for Him to come in. The Spirit of God does not propose to do the willing, the confessing, the believing, the repenting or the submitting for us. Otherwise salvation would be a sham.

Indeed. :-)

[Robert]

The Spirit of God does not propose to do the willing,....

This contradicts the below:

You cannot change your heart, you cannot of yourself give to God its affections; but you can choose to serve Him. You can give Him your will; He will then work in you to will and to do according to His good pleasure. SC 47

[karl]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

The Spirit of God does not propose to do the willing,....

This contradicts the below:

You cannot change your heart, you cannot of yourself give to God its affections; but you can choose to serve Him. You can give Him your will; He will then work in you to will and to do according to His good pleasure. SC 47

I think this may be a perceived contradiction on your part, rather than an actual one. EGW would have seen no contradiction, because she wrote this:

"The Spirit of God does not propose to do our part, either in the willing or the doing. This is the work of the human agent in cooperating with the divine agencies. As soon as we incline our will to harmonize with God's will, the grace of Christ stands to cooperate with the human agent; but it will not be the substitute to do our work independent of our resolving and decidedly acting." --Lt 135, 1898.

And this:

"While these youth were working out their own salvation, God was working in them to will and to do of his good pleasure. Here are revealed the conditions of success. To make God's grace our own, we must act our part. The Lord does not propose to perform for us either the willing or the doing. His grace is given to work in us to will and to do, but never as a substitute for our effort. Our souls are to be aroused to co-operate. The Holy Spirit works in us, that we may work out our own salvation. This is the practical lesson the Holy Spirit is striving to teach us. "It is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." --The Youth's Instructor , August 20, 1903, paragraph 4

Do you believe in free will?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

The Spirit of God does not propose to do the willing,....

This contradicts the below:

You cannot change your heart, you cannot of yourself give to God its affections; but you can choose to serve Him. You can give Him your will; He will then work in you to will and to do according to His good pleasure. SC 47

Yes indeed Rob. We must give ourselves over to the Holy Spirit for of ourselves ... we can't even will or do of ANY good.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

This contradicts the below:

You cannot change your heart, you cannot of yourself give to God its affections; but you can choose to serve Him. You can give Him your will; He will then work in you to will and to do according to His good pleasure. SC 47

The Lord does not propose to perform for us either the willing or the doing. His grace is given to work in us to will and to do, but never as a substitute for our effort.[/quote']

Still contradicts....

Quote:

The Holy Spirit works in us, that we may work out our own salvation.

We have salvation as long as our faith in Christ remains....There's nothing to work out, unless one thinks he can add to Christ's atonement.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Then what Christ did is unacceptable...it lacks. We must do something to be saved. We must add to His perfect work by confession and sanctification. This is legalism and self-righteousness... [/quote'][color:blue]

What Christ did was complete in itself.

1] And what did Christ do?

2] BTW, even though EGW didn't know if all babies who died before they could choose would be saved, the fact is many (or all) will be saved without a faith response. That means what Christ did 2000 years ago is everything!!!

[Steve Billiter]

What gospel are you speaking of that says confession of sin and repentance is legalism? Jack Sequeria's gospel? Rick Warren's gospel? Robert Wieland's gospel?

Without meeting the conditions of the gospel, no one will see the Lord.

What is the first thing Jesus preached?

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

What did Peter say?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We must deal with our sin as God says to do:

Eze 33:11 Say to them, As I live, said the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn you, turn you from your evil ways; for why will you die, O house of Israel?

Please do not be deceived, the Bible is true.

[Guest]

What gospel are you speaking of that says confession of sin and repentance is legalism? Jack Sequeria's gospel? Rick Warren's gospel? Robert Wieland's gospel?

Without meeting the conditions of the gospel, no one will see the Lord.

What is the first thing Jesus preached?

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

What did Peter say?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We must deal with our sin as God says to do:

Eze 33:11 Say to them, As I live, said the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn you, turn you from your evil ways; for why will you die, O house of Israel?

Please do not be deceived, the Bible is true.

Amen!!

[Robert]

Without meeting the conditions of the gospel, no one will see the Lord.

Then babies, who died before they could choose, will be lost. And the heathen, who have never heard the name of Christ, will be lost.

As the little infants come forth immortal from their dusty beds, they immediately wing their way to their mother's arms. They meet again never more to part. But many of the little ones have no mother there. We listen in vain for the rapturous song of triumph from the mother. The angels receive the motherless infants and conduct them to the tree of life. Jesus places the golden ring of light, the crown upon their little heads. [YI 4-1-58]

Wherever there is an impulse of love [agape] and sympathy, wherever the heart reaches out to bless and uplift others, there is revealed the working of God’s Holy Spirit. In the depths of heathenism, men who have had no knowledge of the written law of God, who have never even heard the name of Christ, have been kind to His servants, protecting them at the risk of their own lives. Their acts show the working of a divine power. The Holy Spirit has implanted the grace of Christ in the heart of the savage, quickening his sympathies contrary to his nature, contrary to his education. The “Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world” (John 1:9), is shining in his soul; and this light, if heeded, will guide his feet to the kingdom of God. [EGW, reference unknown]

[Robert]

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

[Robert]

Amen!!

No, not amen....

[Guest]

What gospel are you speaking of that says confession of sin and repentance is legalism? Jack Sequeria's gospel? Rick Warren's gospel? Robert Wieland's gospel?

Without meeting the conditions of the gospel, no one will see the Lord.

What is the first thing Jesus preached?

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

What did Peter say?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We must deal with our sin as God says to do:

Eze 33:11 Say to them, As I live, said the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn you, turn you from your evil ways; for why will you die, O house of Israel?

Please do not be deceived, the Bible is true.

AMEN!!!

[Robert]

AMEN!!!

The woman caught in adultery did not repent...yet Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you." For Christ not to condemn her meant that she was accepted "in Him".....And yes, this love & acceptance lead to a changed life....First comes the assurance of salvation, then comes the fruit....

What you guys teach is a form of subtle legalism....You can say "I repented"...I this and I that....Sorry, no room for the flesh and it's pride....Try again.

[Woody]

"He who will lay hold of Christ's righteousness need not wait one moment that he himself may blot out his own sins. He need not wait until he has made a suitable repentance before he may take hold upon Christ's righteousness. We do not understand the matter of salvation. It is just as simple as ABC. But we don't understand it." {FW 64.3}

[Guest]

What I said AMEN to wasn't even taliking about the woman.

[Woody]

"The soul who sees Jesus by faith, repudiates his own righteousness. He sees himself as incomplete, his repentance insufficient, his strongest faith but feebleness, his most costly sacrifice as meager, and he sinks in humility at the foot of the cross. But a voice speaks to him from the oracles of God's Word. In amazement he hears the message, "Ye are complete in Him." Now all is at rest in his soul. No longer must he strive to find some worthiness in himself, some meritorious deed by which to gain the favor of God." {FW 107.4}

[Woody]

"The Bible does not teach that the sinner must repent before he can heed the invitation of Christ"

ELLEN WHITE in STC 26

[pnattmbtc]

From what I am reading you say it seems you are not understanding what I am saying.

[Robert]

"He who will lay hold of Christ's righteousness need not wait one moment that he himself may blot out his own sins. He need not wait until he has made a suitable repentance before he may take hold upon Christ's righteousness. We do not understand the matter of salvation. It is just as simple as ABC. But we don't understand it." {FW 64.3}

Excellent!!!!

[Robert]

"The soul who sees Jesus by faith, repudiates his own righteousness. He sees himself as incomplete, his repentance insufficient, his strongest faith but feebleness, his most costly sacrifice [works] as meager, and he sinks in humility at the foot of the cross. But a voice speaks to him from the oracles of God's Word. In amazement he hears the message, "Ye are complete in Him." Now all is at rest in his soul. No longer must he strive to find some worthiness in himself, some meritorious deed by which to gain the favor of God." {FW 107.4}

What was that? Ye are complete in Him!

[Woody]

Quote:

You're trying to counteract something that's not being said.

I'm sorry ... but I have to laugh about this. There is SUCH an epidemic of this going on.

[Robert]

What I said AMEN to wasn't even taliking about the woman.

Doesn't matter...the point is she didn't repent before Christ accepted her....