What is salvation?

[wayfinder]

All God needed to do to keep Adam and Eve from disobeying, is not to have instructed them not to eat from one particular tree, Satan would not then, have had an oppertunity to deceive them into eating from the forbidden tree. There is much more to this account then has been previously known or understood.

[Guest]

Huh?

Wayfinder, you are saying it was God's fault for giving them the test.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Christ didn't come to save unfallen Adam...

While I like the rest of your post, may I remind you that the unfallen Adam was living in a universe dealing with the issues of the Great Controversy and God being in the process of saving the universe.

Yes, true, but I'm sure you'd agree that Christ didn't come to save the man that Adam was before he sinned. If Adam hadn't sinned, Christ wouldn't have come and died. He only came to save sinners, as Christ Himself said. If Adam had passed the test, Satan wouldn't have been allowed to continue tempting him. Are you in agreement with this?

[karl]

All God needed to do to keep Adam and Eve from disobeying, is not to have instructed them not to eat from one particular tree, Satan would not then, have had an oppertunity to deceive them into eating from the forbidden tree. There is much more to this account then has been previously known or understood.

The story is told of a man many years ago who had two sons. Life was hard in the rocky hills of KY and he went out to OK to stake out a homestead on the flat, fertile land. When he returned, he excitedly described the homestead property and drew a diagram of the place. He told the boys where he wanted to put the house, the corn field, the wheat, the vegetable garden, the orchard, the house and the barn.

The man died before they could sell out and move to OK. When the family got moved, the sons looked the place over and they agreed with their father's drawing and location of the house, the corn field, the wheat, the vegetable garden, the house and the barn, so that's where they put them. But they felt that the orchard should be on the hill sloping up from the house on the north rather than on the flat spot to the south, so they put it there.

How obedient were the boys to their father's wishes? At first blush it seems that they were obedient but for one small particular. But, in fact, they were not obedient at all. They did what they wanted to do in all of it. It just happened that what they wanted coincided with what their father wanted. But when they wanted a different location for the orchard, their disobedience was revealed.

If God had simply let Adam and Eve do whatever they wanted, we could kid ourselves into thinking they were obedient.

Our obedience is revealed when God's will crosses our will and we do God's will rather than our own. Christ, our Example, was obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

[Guest]

Good story karl.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

I believe the evidence is that Christ took our fallen nature without His mind being polluted by sinful passions.

The very fact that He took our nature condemned him. See Gal 4:4

Exegete that passage and show your reasoning.

Is it possible that this verse means that Jesus was born subject to the Jewish law? If so, He wouldn't have been condemned merely because He was born as a human being with a fallen nature. He was codemned because He took our sins on Him, just as Isaiah 53: 6, 12 says. God imputed our sins to Christ. That is why He was condemned.

If you believe I'm in error, please show it.

[wayfinder]

Richard, I am saying that there is more to this account than we have previously known. God had a very good reason for His command to stay away and never eat from, or contemplate eating from, the forbidden tree.

[Guest]

Richard, I am saying that there is more to this account than we have previously known. God had a very good reason for His command to stay away and never eat from, or contemplate eating from, the forbidden tree.

Ok, I'm listening, Enlighten me.

[Robert]

Is it possible that this verse means that Jesus was born subject to the Jewish law?

[Guest]

If you would read your Bible Robert, instead of JS....

[Robert]

If you would read your Bible Robert, instead of JS....

That was Paul I quoted!

4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law

When Christ united His deity to our corporate humanity that needed redeeming the time had fully come. By uniting Himself with our fallen humanity Christ was "made sin"..."made condemned"..."made a curse". But, as Jones says, "bear in mind forever that all this He "was made." He was none of this of Himself, of native fault, but all of it he "was made." And He was made it all for us: for us who are under the law; for us who are under condemnation because of transgression of the law; for us who are under the curse because of swearing and lying and killing and stealing and committing adultery and all the other infractions of the roll of God's law that goeth with us and that remaineth in our house.

Christ came to save us from under the law because we stand condemned because of our bent-to-self. Since Christ assumed us and became one of us (while remaining himself, God) He came under the curse....Not for sinning, but because He took a humanity onto Himself that was sinful by birth.

Here's Jones:

The Word was made flesh." He "took part of the same" flesh and blood as that of which the children of men are partakers, as they are since man has fallen into sin. And so it is written: "When the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth His Son, made…under the law."

To be under the law is to be guilty, condemned, and subject to the curse. For it is written: "We know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that...all the world may become guilty before God." This because "all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:19, 23; 6:14.