Passenger tries to blow up airliner on Christmas Day

[BSW]

Quote:

No it is not always safe to assume.

Since when hasn't it been safe to assume something? It doesn't mean one is right. But when we cannot even assume, well...what can one do.

Quote:

One may assume, in my opinion. I believe in liberty. If you want to think someone on those planes had no fear great! but if I don't, why would it bother one with no fear? Peace must never be sacrificed, perfect peace. Know matter how we see anything. In all things we are to give praise and thanksgiving!

Not sure what this has to do with liberty.

The liberty of ideas. The liberty to agree to disagree. If we cannot assume we cannot be at perfect liberty, in my opinion. I have perfect liberty because I am under the assumption I do. No one can take that from me or anyone else for that matter, it must be given. We see this happening as we witness the ending prophecies just before us opening up as a script.

Quote:

I can think of a number of reasons someone would fear.I don't know of anyone that is excited at the prospect of dying.Nor do I believe your claimed lack of fear in any and all situations will always keep you safe.

For those trapped I can see plenty of reason to fear being burned to death.

All I did was quote the Bible: 1 John 4:18

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love." Those living in these days are not allowed to fear because it does not glorify Christ in my opinion. It shows a lack of trust. There were those being burned to death, in the dark ages, that sang hymns until consumed by the flames. Foxes book of Martyrs is full of faith building stories, perhaps you should read it if you haven't. The time just before us will be much worse, I believe, for the elect.

Quote:

There is a big difference in "worrying" about the dead and grieving for those you have lost.

I stated that we need to worry about the living. The dead are gone. They are at peace. It is the living that need the gospel. So I'm not too sure where you were here.

Quote:

Maybe the guy that touched the ARK should have had a little healthy fear

He did. He thought the arc was going to fall. Or isn't that "healthy"? His care for God's earthly throne was the cause of his death. Now that would seem to be rather harsh, but are going to blame Jesus for murder? I'm not.

How about the cold Hebrew that wanted to gather some sticks on the weekend (Sabbath) so he could stay warm? Stoned to death. I suppose he should have had a little healthy fear too, huh?

Quote:

How can you believe bad things happen to good people. I understood that if you have no fear as was possibly true on this aircraft you will be safe.

Bad things do happen to good people. Everyday. It is not up to us to choose or say who what where or why. It is up to us to trust that our Creator and Redeemer will help us through, without fear. Those that have no fear are safe, safe in the arms of Jesus. I cling to that.

I too have lost loved ones, dearly loved, due to irresponsible behavior, and I hope beyond hope I see them at the resurrection. And like you I do not understand why, but I must not let go of my only Anchor and I am one that chooses not to fear. Ever. (I pray)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

You are the first person I've ever heard of to claim he fears nothing..

[bonnie]

Quote:

Since when hasn't it been safe to assume something? It doesn't mean one is right. But when we cannot even assume, well...what can one do.

Assuming something without the facts often means you are wrong in the judgment you are making

Quote:

The liberty of ideas. The liberty to agree to disagree. If we cannot assume we cannot be at perfect liberty, in my opinion. I have perfect liberty because I am under the assumption I do. No one can take that from me or anyone else for that matter, it must be given. We see this happening as we witness the ending prophecies just before us opening up as a script.

I don't think I read anywhere where someone was trying to deny you this type of liberty.Unless you feel that someone disagreeing with you is.

You may take the liberty of assumption and you can do that of course.It does not mean you are right.

Quote:

All I did was quote the Bible: 1 John 4:18

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love." Those living in these days are not allowed to fear because it does not glorify Christ in my opinion. It shows a lack of trust. There were those being burned to death, in the dark ages, that sang hymns until consumed by the flames. Foxes book of Martyrs is full of faith building stories, perhaps you should read it if you haven't. The time just before us will be much worse, I believe, for the elect.

I for one don't like pain. I will never like pain and will keep from it if I can. I have a healthy fear of pain.

When my husband almost died and his life depended on me,YES,I WAS SCARED. Not fear of the unknown or my husband burning in hell forever more,but because I did not want him to die.I did not know if I could do what needed to be done and yes I was scared. I don't think there are to many that would calmly say "Well,if I don't do it right at least I am not afraid

Quote:

I stated that we need to worry about the living. The dead are gone. They are at peace. It is the living that need the gospel. So I'm not too sure where you were here.

That makes to of us,I have no idea where you are at.

I certainly never said anything about worrying about the dead.

Maybe you do not miss those you have lost,I do. I think you could probably spread the gospel and miss your loved ones as well

You keep erecting a objection to something that was never said and then make sure to let it be known you certainly wouldn't commit such and act.

If I remember correctly God specifically stated not to touch the ark. It sounds a little like the man thought God didn't mean what he said and that God needed his help

Quote:

How about the cold Hebrew that wanted to gather some sticks on the weekend (Sabbath) so he could stay warm? Stoned to death. I suppose he should have had a little healthy fear too, huh?

A little healthy fear/respect for God's words would probably have let him live longer. He would have gathered the firewood

on Fri.Then he would not have been cold on Sabbath.

Quote:

Bad things do happen to good people. Everyday. It is not up to us to choose or say who what where or why. It is up to us to trust that our Creator and Redeemer will help us through, without fear. Those that have no fear are safe, safe in the arms of Jesus. I cling to that.

Again,no one said we get to choose who,what,where or when. Your idea of trusting "our Creator and Redeemer" is different than mine. I know at times I will be scared,I know I will grieve for more family members,I know at times I will get discouraged and I also know the remedy for that.

Quote:

I too have lost loved ones, dearly loved, due to irresponsible behavior, and I hope beyond hope I see them at the resurrection. And like you I do not understand why, but I must not let go of my only Anchor and I am one that chooses not to fear. Ever. (I pray)

No one suggested anyone let go of "the only Anchor" With that the older I get the more I miss my sisters and my parents and realize what I have lost in this life. I will miss them till I see them again,doesn't mean I am worried about them.

[LifeHiscost]

By LARRY MARGASAK and LARA JAKES, Associated Press Writer – 11 mins ago

WASHINGTON – A Northwest Airlines passenger landing in Detroit on Friday tried to blow up the flight but the explosive device failed, two U.S. national security officials said.

Here's another one.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091230/ap_on_re_af/af_somalia

[BSW]

Quote:

Assuming something without the facts often means you are wrong in the judgment you are making

I suppose you can assume that.

Quote:

I for one don't like pain.

Me either.

Quote:

I certainly never said anything about worrying about the dead.

Quote:

There is a big difference in "worrying" about the dead and grieving for those you have lost. #314785

You wrote that.

Quote:

You are the first person I've ever heard of to claim he fears nothing..

I could not find where I wrote I fear nothing, but I would have you look to Jesus, He claimed through John the beloved that he had no fear, and if you look real hard He says it Himself. I'll give you a hint: fear not...

[bonnie]

Quote:

You wrote that.

No,I did not write the following... rudiwoofs did. From what you wrote she seems prettu safe in assuming

Quote:

You are the first person I've ever heard of to claim he fears nothing..

I could not find where I wrote I fear nothing, but I would have you look to Jesus, He claimed through John the beloved that he had no fear, and if you look real hard He says it Himself. I'll give you a hint: fear not...

[bonnie]

Quote:

I don't know. Jesus said we are to worry about the living (Luke 9:59,60). The dead are gone. I honor those souls, by working for those I can.

This comes across as a correction to some involved in this thread. If you did not feel someone was worrying about the dead why these kinds of statements?

[bonnie]

Quote:

Assuming something without the facts often means you are wrong in the judgment you are making

Quote:

I suppose you can assume that.

Perhaps you are one that thinks he is always right when assuming something about others.

Usually that attitude is best left to the arrogant

[LifeHiscost]

ps: Also was thinking that if he were really Gods rep here on earth why no lighting didn't come down from heaven and strike her just as she jumped.

pk

Yep, that thought ran through my mind also. DB

[LifeHiscost]

I hope we all see how fast things can happen and how things may happen in the very near future. It is time to get our spiritual houses in order. Isn't this exciting?!

Probably not as exciting as the experience of those who gave their lives for the sake of turning their flight into the fields

of PA instead of allowing it to Hit the White House, its' intended target.

And yes, the best answer is to put one's trust in Jesus, so that if Divine Providence does allow one to be struck by lightning, we'll know which resurrection we're in at the final day of judgment.

Joy!

[LifeHiscost]

We only find perfect love in Christ. Because of His perfect love, I understand perfect liberty.

What a King!

Admitted, perfect Love delivers us from all fear. However we live among many who are less than aware of that perfect Love. Our work should be to find ways of deliverance for those who have not yet found that perfect Love, instead of merely exulting in our own assured safety. Not implying any lack on any individual of whom I'm unacquainted.

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:10 NKJV

JOY!

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

By that reasoning is it safe to assume those that died in the 9/11 attack did not have the right faith? Those on the hijacked planes didn't have at least one on board that had no fear?

Are those killed in the many different ways that cause death and heartache lacking something that caused them to lose their lives?

Bonnie' date=' that's exactly what I was thinking. [/quote']

Thank God we are not tried in the final judgment on our record of personal assessment of others.

JOY!!

[bonnie]

Quote:

By that reasoning is it safe to assume those that died in the 9/11 attack did not have the right faith? Those on the hijacked planes didn't have at least one on board that had no fear?

Are those killed in the many different ways that cause death and heartache lacking something that caused them to lose their lives?

Quote:

Bonnie, that's exactly what I was thinking.

Quote:

Thank God we are not tried in the final judgment on our record of personal assessment of others.

JOY!!

There was no personal assessment.It was questions. I am reasonably certain that questions should be able to be asked.

[LifeHiscost]

I agree...it's a weird thinking process..

I'm sure you do believe that many, not deserving mercy, are delivered from evil mischief as a result of God's acts of defense for one or more of His faithful children. What about David's victory in the face of Goliath's threats? The whole camp under King Saul were delivered from the possibility of slavery

by an unbelieving force, except for David's lack of fear.

Joy!!

[LifeHiscost]

As a rule, that's a very safe assumption. It' also a safe assumption that someday God will make it all plain to us.

Joy!!

[bonnie]

[LifeHiscost]

Were my sisters killed because my parents failed some kind of test and they were afraid?

I don't believe that.

[Kountzer]

At my p/t job this Nigerian co-worker, who is also SDA, was really talking ugly about muslims to a small group of guys. He was saying stuff about how many of the World's problems and chaos has been caused by them. I knew that he was trying to distance himself from the fact that the guy in the News is Nigerian also. But another co worker who was listening to him, is also african, from Mali. This second co worker is muslim. He is a really nice guy, hard worker. He would make a really good christian sda, IMO. I felt sorry that the 2nd co worker had to listen to all that.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Were my sisters killed because my parents failed some kind of test and they were afraid?

I don't believe that.

Quote:

Neither do I.

This is the statement that started this discussion......

Perfect love casts out all fear; all. If I fear I deceive myself. I suspect that the reason the bomb did not ignite is because there was at least one that had no fear as well. (Is there a riddle in there?)

Is that bad?

If this belief or assumption is biblical, then it almost has to follow among those not protected from violence or death,there was not one to be found without fear.

Quote:

I believe they were killed because there is evil in this world.The above five were killed because of irresponsible behavior.

Quote:

I also believe that.

According to the assumption that there was at least one that was unafraid concerning the failure to blow this plane up,they did not die only because there is evil in the world.This is what may well have saved them.....I suspect that the reason the bomb did not ignite is because there was at least one that had no fear as well.That logically means that those dying at the hands of a drunk had fear,otherwise God would have saved them

[phkrause]

At my p/t job this Nigerian co-worker, who is also SDA, was really talking ugly about muslims to a small group of guys. He was saying stuff about how many of the World's problems and chaos has been caused by them. I knew that he was trying to distance himself from the fact that the guy in the News is Nigerian also. But another co worker who was listening to him, is also african, from Mali. This second co worker is muslim. He is a really nice guy, hard worker. He would make a really good christian sda, IMO. I felt sorry that the 2nd co worker had to listen to all that.

That is sad Kountzer, that thinking is also why Jews are not thought well of.

pk

[hch]

9/11? Did it take God by surprise or something? This event that changed the world as we know it is identified in the book of Daniel, but who among us has found it? Perhaps that's because it has not made its way into our Sabbath School Quarterlies yet?

Did you realize that 9/11/01 came 16-days before Yom Kippur in 2001? SDA's usually focus on October 22 (Yom Kippur of 1844) but its date changes each year on the Gregorian Calendar. And for ten days before the Day of Atonement the Jews practice the tradition of the 10-days of AWE. They search their hearts and repent of all known sins in preparation of the Day of Judgment.

9/11 was a wake up call for God's Remnant people. So many things happened in reaction to that tragedy that we should be forewarned that should another earth shaking event come (and it will) the rapid response of our panicked nation will be mind-boggling. Surely the final events of earth's history will be rapid ones, and 1/2 of the Ten Virgins will awake too late.

But what to do? Laodicea is satisfied that she is in need of nothing even though Christ identifies her needs. As long as she is satisfied with her deplorable condition, is she going to do anything to change?

So if she did not seek the Lord and learn the lessons from Scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy when 9/11 shouted WAKE UP MY PEOPLE, what hope is there that she will fare any better next time?

loudcry.2007@gmail.com

[hch]

Quote:

Were my sisters killed because my parents failed some kind of test and they were afraid?

I don't believe that.

I don't know either. But there is a balance between actions and consequences that we should bear in mind. This text is true, but it is not the end of the matter:

Quote:

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Matt 10:28 KJV

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

Hosea 4:5-7

Sometimes our ignorance has consequences whether it is willful or through our neglect or even just plain ignorance.

Yes God cares for His own, but His own have to listen to His instructions. Example: Come out of Babylon My people. To hear and not to obey is to perish with those in Babylon.

So it is more than God will take care of you. We have an obligation too.

loudcry.2007@gmail.com

[bonnie]

Quote:

9/11? Did it take God by surprise or something?

Where did I say God was taken by surprise?

Quote:

This event that changed the world as we know it is identified in the book of Daniel, but who among us has found it? Perhaps that's because it has not made its way into our Sabbath School Quarterlies yet?

Kind of a cheap shot at many that have and continue to study their bibles faithfully that do not agree with you

Quote:

Did you realize that 9/11/01 came 16-days before Yom Kippur in 2001? SDA's usually focus on October 22 (Yom Kippur of 1844) but its date changes each year on the Gregorian Calendar. And for ten days before the Day of Atonement the Jews practice the tradition of the 10-days of AWE. They search their hearts and repent of all known sins in preparation of the Day of Judgment.

Sorry,don't think that 9/11 had any religious or prophetic importance.Other than another in man's cruelty to man and getting worse.

Quote:

9/11 was a wake up call for God's Remnant people. So many things happened in reaction to that tragedy that we should be forewarned that should another earth shaking event come (and it will) the rapid response of our panicked nation will be mind-boggling. Surely the final events of earth's history will be rapid ones, and 1/2 of the Ten Virgins will awake too late.

It was a wake up call in the sense of how fast your world can change and it be your final day on earth. It could likely be as you say if another 9/11 occurs. I don't know that and neither do you.Current events are taking an interesting tone without another 9/11

[guibox]

Getting back to the topic at hand...

All I know is I'm getting tired of these Islamic terrorists screwing everything up for everybody. I travel alot and it makes me mad that the airlines are having to go overboard to make the experience as taxing,tedious and frustrating as they possibly can. It take the fun out of going somewhere.

Yes, yes, I know that it is for the safety of the people but come on. The rules are so easy to circumvent, are redundant in most cases and basically a burden on those law abiding citizens who travel simply to travel and not to enact some terrorist plot.

[bonnie]

Quote:

I don't know either. But there is a balance between actions and consequences that we should bear in mind. This text is true, but it is not the end of the matter:

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Matt 10:28 KJV

I do not have to bear in mind a balance between actions and consequences as it concerns my sisters.

It was a drunk driver doing 80 miles an hour over a hill and running a stop sign. The balance was he drank,he drove and he killed.

As to Matt 10:28 sorry, I do not take that to mean that you[general} will never feel fear. When my children were learning how to cross a busy street I did teach them fear. Fear of being hit by a car and injured or worse. Maybe it was my lack as a mother that did not say...And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Quote:

[color:#FF0000]"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

People are also destroyed by those that profess to have the "correct knowledge".

My parents were almost destroyed because there were people just like you that thought maybe they were being punished for some lack on their part.

Quote:

Sometimes our ignorance has consequences whether it is willful or through our neglect or even just plain ignorance.

Not sure what was the ignorance of my parents,I will leave people like you to speculate on that.It does seem to make some feel much more godly themselves than those suffering the consequences of their willful,neglectful behavior

For me, Why God allowed it I don't know,but I do know they were not killed as a result of some sin or neglect of my parents.

Quote:

Yes God cares for His own, but His own have to listen to His instructions. Example: Come out of Babylon My people. To hear and not to obey is to perish with those in Babylon.

So it is more than God will take care of you. We have an obligation too.

Maybe you have some personal knowledge concerning those that lose their lives,more likely your personal knowledge is "Thank God I am not as other men"

You are clueless as to who may have heard and ignored or listened.Clueless as to who lived up "to their obligation".

Being at the world trade center on 9/11 or in a car on your way home from chruch that is hit,or any of the dozens of ways people lose their lives is not something that tells you they refused to listen to God.