The Exceeding Worth Of Joining The Church

[Overaged]

How would you explain your thoughts on the following question?

Who are fit for Church membership?

[Woody]

All who accept Jesus as their saviour.

[Stewart (SDA)]

How would you explain your thoughts on the following question?

Who are fit for Church membership?

Interesting question, Overaged.

I wonder just how much lies behind the question . But it is certainly an important issue in my view.

There is, in many churches an apparent eagerness to grow [in terms of numbers]. As a result there is often little "screening" done when a person requests baptism and church membership.

It is right that we examine ourselves, to see whether we are in the faith. But when a person presents themselves for church membership I believe a close examination should also be made with regards to the "fruit" (the words & actions)of their lives.

Of course anyone may claim to have a relationship with God, and to be in the Light, but we may know them by their fruit.

(We have no right to enter into any of their motives, but we may indeed know them by their fruit.)

"...when a person presents himself as a candidate for church membership, we are to examine the fruit of his life, and leave the responsibility of his motive with himself. But great care should be exercised in accepting members into the church; for Satan has his specious devices through which he purposes to crowd false brethren into the church, through whom he can work more successfully to weaken the cause of God." (Ev 313)

There are many such statements in the Spirit of Prophecy, but it sometimes seems that a compassionate [yet testing] examination has fallen out of favor. It takes real time and effort for a minister to get to know a prospective member...

This is not always done, and as it was in the early 1900's, so also today, "the test of discipleship is not brought to bear as closely as it should be upon those who present themselves for baptism [and generally also for church membership]". (Ev 311)

_______

Stewart

[Guest]

I have to agree whole heartedly with what you have said here Stewart.

[teresaq]

How would you explain your thoughts on the following question?

Who are fit for Church membership?

how many of us are "fit" to judge? i think the ones most eager to do the weeding are the ones that probably need to be weeded out, and too many times that is probably me....

[Stewart (SDA)]

Thankyou Richard.

[Stewart (SDA)]

"All may see, if they will, the fruit growing upon [the] tree." 3T 443

True, we cannot see the roots -- the motives and the heart of a person -- [and we must not imagine that we do,] but the life eventually testifies to who it is they serve.

Perhaps this sounds judgmental and harsh, but at one time "[open] sinners were not permitted to unite with the church."

Yet over the course of time "pleasing fables were taught and readily received, and hypocrites and open sinners united with the church. If the truth had been preached in its purity, IT would soon have shut out this class. But there was no difference between the [lives of] the professed followers of Christ and the world." (EW 226, 228)

Stewart

[Stewart (SDA)]

i think the ones most eager to do the weeding are the ones that probably need to be weeded out...

I agree. Jesus effectively allows church "divorce" [excommunication], but that allowance came only because of the hardness of our hearts.

Christ's primary goal is to allow the wheat and the weeds to grow/ develop together until the final separation and harvest comes.

If we truly went to Jesus and asked Him, "Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up [i.e. weed them out]?" His answer would be the same -- "let both grow together until the harvest".

Stewart

[Overaged]

I really enjoy researching Christians and Christian themes through ancient old books when I can find them. Often, things that happen in the past, conclusions that others have reached, tell me what way God wants me to go today. The book I am referring to as a reference for part of this topic is called The Exceeding Worth Of Joining The Church, By Edward E Keedy, 1918

This topic is being started to examine what others say about who is fit for church membership. I will be using exerpts and thoughts drawn from the title of this thread, which also happens to be the name of this little book. Specifically, chapter 7 of this book is entitled: "Who Are Fit For Church Membership?"

The Author makes the following point in his introduction to the book:

Quote:

“If there came into your hands a booklet, claiming to be from some great business corporation, with a message of financial gain, you would give it attention and time, and weigh it’s claim and it’s message. There is asked for this little book, the same candid consideration…”

Although I have arrived at some definite conclusions on this question; I am also very interested in 2 aspects of it: 1) What do others say and believe? 2) What is the official Adventist position/s on this question?

One of the posters above mentioned that they wondered what exactly might be behind such a question. Let it suffice to say for now that I have had times where I have been a “very good church member,” I did everything right, I was in leadership positions; and yet, my range of experiences carried me to another point where I was a bit of a rebel; and I am sure that over the years people kind of cringed when I walked into the room or came online. But, it doesn’t seem to matter where I am at in my spiritual walk; there would always be someone telling me I wasn’t a true Adventist. That I just wasn't doing things right.

My experiences led me to study with Catholics for over 3 years. I stayed away from our church for a portion of that time. And after a very serious and in-depth examination of many things; I decided that God has always been calling me to the Adventist Church; and I have no qualms about my being a member of it now, no matter what anyone thinks. So what is behind this topic? I guess several things; but above all, I am hoping it will not be a debate topic as much as it will be a sharing of testimony and the more positive aspects of “Who Are Worthy Of Church Membership?”

This topic is intended to relate more to what God has to say about Who Are Fit For Church Membership; and as a result of all my research and experiences; I have seen first hand how what God has to say always answers to something deep within us. It never violates our reason or our conscience. To not consider, or to reject the claims of The Church, is to prove none of them untrue; for we all need Christ; and He is calling us.

In the next post; I will start to share exerpts from this book, and other related thoughts. I hope people are blessed and encouraged with this topic.

[olger]

What does it take to be what?

If you say what does it take to be a Christian I would say “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, that God has raised Him from the dead, and repent – if you with your heart and mind, trust Jesus, I would say “You are a believer.”

Then you come to me and you say what does it take to belong to your church? I say, “If you join this particular church where I am a member, there are certain doctrinal beliefs that you have to believe. For instance, you can’t believe that the Bible is 90% garbage and 10% nice and still be a member of that body. You can’t do that. There are certain doctrines to which you are committed. There is also a certain code of Biblical conduct to which you are committed. So if you belong to a community of believers, it is not just a belief in Christ but a certain harmonic expression of that belief that you are committed to.”

Now, you say what does it take to teach at Andrews University or Wycliff Hall Oxford University? I say “Now you have to add even more. So with each line of affiliation you put the plus, plus, plus. Not because the second and the third make you a Christian but it places upon you a greater accountability and responsibility as a dispenser of truth to which you are held accountable by a community of believers.”

oG

[Guest]

Amen og.

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

How would you explain your thoughts on the following question?

Who are fit for Church membership?

how many of us are "fit" to judge? i think the ones most eager to do the weeding are the ones that probably need to be weeded out, and too many times that is probably me....

Chap. 4 - Tares

"Another parable put He forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also." {COL 70.1}

"The field," Christ said, "is the world." But we must understand this as signifying the church of Christ in the world. The parable is a description of that which pertains to the kingdom of God, His work of salvation of men; and this work is accomplished through the church. True, the Holy Spirit has gone out into all the world; everywhere it is moving upon the hearts of men; but it is in the church that we are to grow and ripen for the garner of God. {COL 70.2}

"He that sowed the good seed is the Son of man. . . . The good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one." The good seed represents those who are born of the word of

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God, the truth. The tares represent a class who are the fruit or embodiment of error, of false principles. "The enemy that sowed them is the devil." Neither God nor His angels ever sowed a seed that would produce a tare. The tares are always sown by Satan, the enemy of God and man. {COL 70.3}

In the East, men sometimes took revenge upon an enemy by strewing his newly sown fields with the seeds of some noxious weed that, while growing, closely resembled wheat. Springing up with the wheat, it injured the crop and brought trouble and loss to the owner of the field. So it is from enmity to Christ that Satan scatters his evil seed among the good grain of the kingdom. The fruit of his sowing he attributes to the Son of God. By bringing into the church those who bear Christ's name while they deny His character, the wicked one causes that God shall be dishonored, the work of salvation misrepresented, and souls imperiled. {COL 71.1}

Christ's servants are grieved as they see true and false believers mingled in the church. They long to do something to cleanse the church. Like the servants of the householder, they are ready to uproot the tares. But Christ says to them, "Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest." {COL 71.2}

Christ has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the church, but He has not committed to us the work of judging character and motive. He knows our nature too well to entrust this work to us. Should we try to uproot from the church those whom we suppose to be spurious Christians, we should be sure to make mistakes. Often we regard as hopeless subjects the very ones whom Christ is drawing to Himself. Were we

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to deal with these souls according to our imperfect judgment, it would perhaps extinguish their last hope. Many who think themselves Christians will at last be found wanting. Many will be in heaven who their neighbors supposed would never enter there. Man judges from appearance, but God judges the heart. The tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest; and the harvest is the end of probationary time. {COL 71.3}

There is in the Saviour's words another lesson, a lesson of wonderful forbearance and tender love. As the tares have their roots closely intertwined with those of the good grain, so false brethren in the church may be closely linked with true disciples. The real character of these pretended believers is not fully manifested. Were they to be separated from the church, others might be caused to stumble, who but for this would have remained steadfast. {COL 72.1}

The teaching of this parable is illustrated in God's own dealing with men and angels. Satan is a deceiver. When he sinned in heaven, even the loyal angels did not fully discern his character. This was why God did not at once destroy Satan. Had He done so, the holy angels would not have perceived the justice and love of God. A doubt of God's goodness would have been as evil seed that would yield the bitter fruit of sin and woe. Therefore the author of evil was spared, fully to develop his character. Through long ages God has borne the anguish of beholding the work of evil, He has given the infinite Gift of Calvary, rather than leave any to be deceived by the misrepresentations of the wicked one; for the tares could not be plucked up without danger of uprooting the precious grain. And shall we not be as forbearing toward our fellow men as the Lord of heaven and earth is toward Satan? {COL 72.2}

The world has no right to doubt the truth of Christianity

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because there are unworthy members in the church, nor should Christians become disheartened because of these false brethren. How was it with the early church? Ananias and Sapphira joined themselves to the disciples. Simon Magus was baptized. Demas, who forsook Paul, had been counted a believer. Judas Iscariot was numbered with the apostles. The Redeemer does not want to lose one soul; His experience with Judas is recorded to show His long patience with perverse human nature; and He bids us bear with it as He has borne. He has said that false brethren will be found in the church till the close of time.

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{COL 72.3}

Notwithstanding Christ's warning, men have sought to uproot the tares. To punish those who were supposed to be evildoers, the church has had recourse to the civil power. Those who differed from the established doctrines have been imprisoned, put to torture and to death, at the instigation of men who claimed to be acting under the sanction of Christ. But it is the spirit of Satan, not the Spirit of Christ, that inspires such acts. This is Satan's own method of bringing the world under his dominion. God has been misrepresented through the church by this way of dealing with those supposed to be heretics. {COL 74.1}

Not judgment and condemnation of others, but humility and distrust of self, is the teaching of Christ's parable. Not all that is sown in the field is good grain. The fact that men are in the church does not prove them Christians. {COL 74.2}

The tares closely resembled the wheat while the blades were green; but when the field was white for the harvest, the worthless weeds bore no likeness to the wheat that bowed under the weight of its full, ripe heads. Sinners who make a pretension of piety mingle for a time with the true followers of Christ, and the semblance of Christianity is calculated to deceive many; but in the harvest of the world there will be no likeness between good and evil. Then those who have joined the church, but who have not joined Christ, will be manifest. {COL 74.3}

The tares are permitted to grow among the wheat, to have all the advantage of sun and shower; but in the time of harvest ye shall "return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth Him not." Malachi 3:18. Christ Himself will decide who are worthy to dwell with the family of heaven. He will judge every man according to his words and his works. Profession is as nothing in the scale. It is character that decides destiny.

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{COL 74.4}

The Saviour does not point forward to a time when all the tares become wheat. The wheat and tares grow together until the harvest, the end of the world. Then the tares are bound in bundles to be burned, and the wheat is gathered into the garner of God. "Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father." Then "the Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." {COL 75.1}

[Woody]

Good Point that the wheat and the tares are to grow together. So, they all need to be as one. It matters not if your name is on the church books or not. What matters is that your name is in the Book of Life.

[Overaged]

Hey Redwood, your dog is sitting on the right side of that little car! He's NOT "one of us." :D

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Hey Redwood, your dog is sitting on the right side of that little car! He's NOT "one of us."

yes, he's "one of us"... he joined by profession of faith..

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

how many of us are "fit" to judge? i think the ones most eager to do the weeding are the ones that probably need to be weeded out' date=' and too many times that is probably me.... [/quote']

Christ has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the church, but He has not committed to us the work of judging character and motive. He knows our nature too well to entrust this work to us. Should we try to uproot from the church those whom we suppose to be spurious Christians, we should be sure to make mistakes. Often we regard as hopeless subjects the very ones whom Christ is drawing to Himself. Were we to deal with these souls according to our imperfect judgment, it would perhaps extinguish their last hope. Many who think themselves Christians will at last be found wanting. Many will be in heaven who their neighbors supposed would never enter there. Man judges from appearance, but God judges the heart. The tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest; and the harvest is the end of probationary time. {COL 71.3}

which is why i said what i did.

we should all note that when it says Many, it means "me". in other words we should take it personally, as especially directed at us.

[Twilight]

We are a movement, not a church.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

People should join the movement, not a "denomination".

We are different to others and should not consider ourselves the same, because we have a biblical mission at this point in time...

To preach the 3 Angels Message.

[teresaq]

People should join the movement, not a "denomination".

We are different to others and should not consider ourselves the same, because we have a biblical mission at this point in time...

To preach the 3 Angels Message.

this seems to be steering into a different direction from the op, mark. can you tie it in for me?

[teresaq]

My experiences led me to study with Catholics for over 3 years. I stayed away from our church for a portion of that time. And after a very serious and in-depth examination of many things; I decided that God has always been calling me to the Adventist Church; and I have no qualms about my being a member of it now, no matter what anyone thinks. So what is behind this topic? I guess several things; but above all, I am hoping it will not be a debate topic as much as it will be a sharing of testimony and the more positive aspects of “Who Are Worthy Of Church Membership?”

This topic is intended to relate more to what God has to say about Who Are Fit For Church Membership; and as a result of all my research and experiences; I have seen first hand how what God has to say always answers to something deep within us. It never violates our reason or our conscience. To not consider, or to reject the claims of The Church, is to prove none of them untrue; for we all need Christ; and He is calling us.

it must make Gods heart all warm and proud when he finds any willing to think and pray and search....

please continue sharing. :)

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

My experiences led me to study with Catholics for over 3 years. I stayed away from our church for a portion of that time. And after a very serious and in-depth examination of many things; I decided that God has always been calling me to the Adventist Church; and I have no qualms about my being a member of it now, no matter what anyone thinks. So what is behind this topic? I guess several things; but above all, I am hoping it will not be a debate topic as much as it will be a sharing of testimony and the more positive aspects of “Who Are Worthy Of Church Membership?”

This topic is intended to relate more to what God has to say about Who Are Fit For Church Membership; and as a result of all my research and experiences; I have seen first hand how what God has to say always answers to something deep within us. It never violates our reason or our conscience. To not consider, or to reject the claims of The Church, is to prove none of them untrue; for we all need Christ; and He is calling us.

it must make Gods heart all warm and proud when he finds any willing to think and pray and search....

please continue sharing.

I will...Just short on time for a day or two. See y'all soon.

[phkrause]

Good Point that the wheat and the tares are to grow together. So, they all need to be as one. It matters not if your name is on the church books or not. What matters is that your name is in the Book of Life.

Yes a very good point. I keep telling my mom that, because she likes to say so and so just shouldn't be here. She mentions how she doesn't know if certain members are really still practicing there religion, that its hard to tell who is goo and who is bad. I remind her about the wheat and the tares story in the Bible that they both grow together and that in the end the reaper will divide them.

pk

[Stewart (SDA)]

"We receive into our [medical] institutions people of all denominations. But as for ourselves, we are strictly denominational; we are sacredly denominated by God and are under His theocracy..." (7T 109)

Sorry teresaq, I won't linger on that point.

_________

But in the early days of the Christian church, when people understood that taking on the name of Christ meant risking their lives, then there was an inevitable "fine screening". Entry into the church was not just a matter of preference or whim; they really had to sit down and count the cost.

The gospel net has always brought good and bad into the church, but whenever the profession of true Christianity involves a cross, then there is a big difference. The day will return when it will take real courage and strength to stand for Christ. It will be much more again than just giving up drink, drugs, and foul language.

When the gospel is presented [in the time of the latter rain] it will be a great sieve, and only the genuine articles will remain.

In the old, typical system, no uncircumcised person could enter into the house of God, or eat the passover. (Ex 12:44,48 etc.) Of course real "circumcision is that of the heart" (Rom 2:29), and the life will show whether they have a right to enter or not. If self and sin is not cut away, then we have come to a place that is very dangerous for us to be.

Stewart

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

People should join the movement, not a "denomination".

We are different to others and should not consider ourselves the same, because we have a biblical mission at this point in time...

To preach the 3 Angels Message.

this seems to be steering into a different direction from the op, mark. can you tie it in for me?

When we ask a question about the benefits of joining the "church", we should consider defining all the terms.

Hence the definition.

We are not another "denomination".

We are a "movement" appointed by God.

That in itself will provide all the benefits we need to examine, when we realise this.

Joining in with Gods great work, is the ultimate benefit...

Mark

[Gail]

Good discussion! Keep going!

I distanced myself from a particular group of people when I found that I was getting dragged down from listening to so much "what is wrong" with either the church or its people. Once you get going on that road, where does it stop? Who can escape the pointed fingers?

Some people are trained (or are training themselves?) to notice and pick out faults in folks.

I ask myself, if that was me, what would help me back on the right track?

Maybe a better question would be, What exactly, IS the right track at this point, Lord?

Perhaps we could encourage each other more by honestly witnessing of our spiritual walk, whether it be trials, laxity, blessings, confusion or wherever we are. We could therefore encourage each other to carry on in our own growth as well as ministering to others.

If the church is a safe place to share burdens, perhaps we could get close enough to each other to be trusted to counsel instead of judging. Instead of being part of the problem we could be part of a solution.