The Exceeding Worth Of Joining The Church

[Stewart (SDA)]

Thankyou Gail. Good to read your words.

_____________

Wondering whether the following questions really need to be asked here, but

is the church a place for Christians -- for "new creatures"? Or are people to be brought in, in the hope that they will become Christians?

There are many dogs and swine in the world [these terms are not reserved for the proverbial dregs of society], but should even these be invited into the church, to consider the precious pearls of truth? God forbid. If we loved these people then we would be working with them in the world, but never should we set a pearl openly before them.

[teresaq]

there sure are a lot of confused puppies walking around!!

(a puppy, while technically a dog, is considered a cute, lovable, little creature, not saying that the ones "puppy" is directed at, are either cute or lovable, just giving the meaning of "puppy", as opposed to "dog", for those "confused" on that issue.)

sorry twi, i thought i was tagging this to my comment. i should have doublechecked.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

Hey Redwood, your dog is sitting on the right side of that little car! He's NOT "one of us."

yes, he's "one of us"... he joined by profession of faith..

Good One Pam. Yes, he is 'right' in the sight of God.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Good Point that the wheat and the tares are to grow together. So, they all need to be as one. It matters not if your name is on the church books or not. What matters is that your name is in the Book of Life.

Yes a very good point. I keep telling my mom that, because she likes to say so and so just shouldn't be here. She mentions how she doesn't know if certain members are really still practicing there religion, that its hard to tell who is goo and who is bad. I remind her about the wheat and the tares story in the Bible that they both grow together and that in the end the reaper will divide them.

pk

Excellent pk. I really value this principle. You know why? Because so many consider me the tares .... that in order for me to be accepted ... I have to believe in this principle. :) HA HA !!

[Overaged]

Good discussion! Keep going!

I distanced myself from a particular group of people when I found that I was getting dragged down from listening to so much "what is wrong" with either the church or its people. Once you get going on that road, where does it stop? Who can escape the pointed fingers?

Some people are trained (or are training themselves?) to notice and pick out faults in folks.

I ask myself, if that was me, what would help me back on the right track?

Maybe a better question would be, What exactly, IS the right track at this point, Lord?

Hi Gail; just wanted to briefly comment that your post is the closest to the direction I am heading in. I will also say that it is not necessary to define or redefine church; atleast for the purposes and discussions I have in mind. (but I don't mind if others feel they want to talk about that a little here). To me; the question Who Are Fit For Church Membership will describe what God is looking for when He calls us.

And BTW, your dog can't be "one of us" either. NOT WITH HAIR LIKE THAT!! (unless, like Redwood, you provide a suitable explanation....lol)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Gail

Good discussion! Keep going!

I distanced myself from a particular group of people when I found that I was getting dragged down from listening to so much "what is wrong" with either the church or its people. Once you get going on that road, where does it stop? Who can escape the pointed fingers?

Some people are trained (or are training themselves?) to notice and pick out faults in folks.

I ask myself, if that was me, what would help me back on the right track?

Maybe a better question would be, What exactly, IS the right track at this point, Lord?

Hi Gail; just wanted to briefly comment that your post is the closest to the direction I am heading in. I will also say that it is not necessary to define or redefine church; atleast for the purposes and discussions I have in mind. (but I don't mind if others feel they want to talk about that a little here). To me; the question Who Are Fit For Church Membership will describe what God is looking for when He calls us.

And BTW, your dog can't be "one of us" either. NOT WITH HAIR LIKE THAT!! (unless, like Redwood, you provide a suitable explanation....lol)

I think it is important to define what we are, before we can even consider what it is people are joining...

And whether they should or should not be accepted.

Anyone can join any church, as long as their conscience agrees with the doctrine of that church, they have joined the body of Christ.

But we are not the same.

We are a "movement" called into being by the Holy Spirit specifically.

For a specific purpose.

Why does that matter?

Because people are not joining a creedal 28 fundamental viewpoint.

They are joining the last great work of God in the history of the Church.

Sometimes we do not think big enough or soberly enough about what we are.

And if we do not know what we are, how can someone join us and how can we even attempt to judge if they should be included?

It is a bit like someone going to a job interview and asking what the job is and the interviewer does not know...

Mark :-)

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

Hi Gail; just wanted to briefly comment that your post is the closest to the direction I am heading in. I will also say that it is not necessary to define or redefine church; atleast for the purposes and discussions I have in mind. (but I don't mind if others feel they want to talk about that a little here). To me; the question Who Are Fit For Church Membership will describe what God is looking for when He calls us.

And BTW, your dog can't be "one of us" either. NOT WITH HAIR LIKE THAT!! (unless, like Redwood, you provide a suitable explanation....lol) [/quote']

I think it is important to define what we are, before we can even consider what it is people are joining...

i think you should find out what the point is before trying to decide how the thread starter should go.

i also think that if this is an issue for you that you should start a topic on it for those who wish to discuss, it. wouldnt you agree to both points? :)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

i think you should find out what the point is before trying to decide how the thread starter should go.

i also think that if this is an issue for you that you should start a topic on it for those who wish to discuss, it. wouldnt you agree to both points?

No.

I would see this as another example of you seeking contention with me.

Which I have explained I will not enter into.

The poster has already accepted the point I made and although it is not where they wanted it exactly to go, they thought it was permissible in the discussion.

[Overaged]

No.

I would see this as another example of you seeking contention with me.

Which I have explained I will not enter into.

The poster has already accepted the point I made and although it is not where they wanted it exactly to go, they thought it was permissible in the discussion.

There are two aspects intended. One is Who is fit for church membership? The other is The exceeding worth of joining the Church. Anyone dwelling only on one aspect, at the exclusion of the other would be a bit off topic.

I would encourage people to go back to page one and examine my second post closely; it explains things really well.

[Overaged]

I am very short on time for a few days yet - so cannot post everything I would like to; but I have time to post a short statement/question, along with a picture. (a picture is worth a thousand words).

"Whom Christ would receive, Christ's Church would hardly be warranted in turning away..."

I encountered this fellow sleeping on the pavement in an alley downtown; it was minus 26 celsius. Should Christ's Church receive this fellow? Why, or why not?

[Robert]

We are a "movement" appointed by God.

Really? Which SDA are you? Currently there are at least 5 gospels within Adventism. Will the real SDA please stand up!

[teresaq]

most assuredly to help in some form or other, as s/he would allow!!

as for membership, that would depend. i do agree with the standards setup by egw but my experience with those who would implement them they were seriously lacking in the "spiritual" department. and since i know that i have not "arrived" i get very hesitant in swinging those standards around.

let me put it this way, when i see those people on their knees, those who would implement the standards, as well as myself, not for a moment only but as long as it takes, to know for certain how to deal with any particular individual.... :)

[Woody]

SDA Minister's Manual .... P. 125 " So while we cannot expect a lot of fruit in the prebaptismal life of the candidate, neverless some fruit must be visible. Surely this fruit should include Sabbath keeping, church attendance, and refraining from the use of harmful substances."

[teresaq]

SDA Minister's Manual .... P. 125 " So while we cannot expect a lot of fruit in the prebaptismal life of the candidate, neverless some fruit must be visible. Surely this fruit should include Sabbath keeping, church attendance, and refraining from the use of harmful substances."

hmmm, not much about being a christian is there?

[Woody]

TU

[Woody]

These three pillars say a lot about membership don't they?

[Overaged]

Quote:

"I am very short on time for a few days yet - so cannot post everything I would like to; but I have time to post a short statement/question, along with a picture. (a picture is worth a thousand words).

"Whom Christ would receive, Christ's Church would hardly be warranted in turning away..."

I encountered this fellow sleeping on the pavement in an alley downtown; it was minus 26 celsius. Should Christ's Church receive this fellow? Why, or why not?"

Anyone willing to venture an answer to this post?

[Stewart (SDA)]

Quote:

"I am very short on time for a few days yet - so cannot post everything I would like to; but I have time to post a short statement/question, along with a picture. (a picture is worth a thousand words).

"Whom Christ would receive, Christ's Church would hardly be warranted in turning away..."

<img src="http://www.thelightofhisword.com/street1.JPG"/>

I encountered this fellow sleeping on the pavement in an alley downtown; it was minus 26 celsius. Should Christ's Church receive this fellow? Why, or why not?"

Anyone willing to venture an answer to this post?

I think that teresaq did venture an answer, Overaged, and am in agreement with her response. Yes, in some way the church, through some agency (whether it be through an individual or through some joint venture) should offer help.

But just what it means to "receive this fellow" is a broader issue.

If he were, in Jesus' words, a "dog" or a "swine", should we invite him into the church where precious pearls would be cast at his feet? How are we to judge? [For in such a situation I believe that we must judge.]

(Obviously I do not know all the circumstances of the picture, but for me it evokes an image from Jesus' parable, when the Levite came over and looked on the man who was suffering/injured. Perhaps someone had the courage of the Samaritan that day.)

Stewart

[teresaq]

i feel as if i hadnt answered....

[Overaged]

i feel as if i hadnt answered....

I know you answered; please forgive me if I have offended...All I am trying to do is to get people to think more deeply about the subject at hand. Hopefully in a good way too.

I was hoping people would notice the bolded red part and dig into that a little more:

"Whom Christ would receive, Christ's Church would hardly be warranted in turning away..." This is a quote from the little book I have been reading.

1/ Do you agree this statement is true or false?

2/ I associated this statement with a picture, meaning to ask: Would Christ receive this person?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

i feel as if i hadnt answered....

I know you answered; please forgive me if I have offended...All I am trying to do is to get people to think more deeply about the subject at hand. Hopefully in a good way too.

I was hoping people would notice the bolded red part and dig into that a little more:

"Whom Christ would receive, Christ's Church would hardly be warranted in turning away..." This is a quote from the little book I have been reading.

1/ Do you agree this statement is true or false?

2/ I associated this statement with a picture, meaning to ask: Would Christ receive this person?

i can be quite sharp in some ways, and quite dense in others. probably has to do with gardners 7 intelligences.

anyway, the light just now dawned. Jesus didnt call judas, yet He didnt reject judas knowing judas was a demon.... He even washed judas feet, not to manipulate judas but because that was What Jesus was about...

better? :)

[WayneV]

Teresa,

What is the difference between being "called" and being "chosen"? I did not find where Judas was "called". However, many of the disciples were not called. All, including Judas, were "chosen" according to Luke 6 and John 6. So, I'm just curious as to what differentiates these two terms in your thoughts.

Agape`

[teresaq]

the bible seems to note a difference...and seems to explain them.

Quote:

Mat 20:16... for many be called, but few chosen.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

I was hoping people would notice the bolded red part and dig into that a little more:

"Whom Christ would receive, Christ's Church would hardly be warranted in turning away..." This is a quote from the little book I have been reading.

1/ Do you agree this statement is true or false?

2/ I associated this statement with a picture, meaning to ask: Would Christ receive this person?

i can be quite sharp in some ways, and quite dense in others. probably has to do with gardners 7 intelligences.

[jasd]

QR frame:

I was watching a performance by the Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir on television. Intermittently, a member would step forward to ‘testify’ as to the means by which he or she became a Xtian.

One man stood out. He told a story of degradation, which finally found him sleeping on the side stoop of the Brooklyn Tabernacle. That stoop became his home.

Though filthy and smelling of his own urine and other unfortunate mishaps – the pastor was not deterred and would often come to the side of the Tabernacle to ask after his well-being and invite him to services. He was also encouraged to come inside for warmth whilst the choir practiced. The man consistently refused.

One night the man unobtrusively slipped into the Tabernacle and remained in the back. The Pastor saw him standing away in the back and stepping down to the aisle, ran and embraced the transient – urine and refuse attaching – compelling him forward and bade the congregation welcome him.

That was the day the man encountered Jesus Christ.

Matt 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

Matt 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

The church of Jesus Christ is not a matter of fractals. All who are in Jesus Christ are His church. That would include many that have never heard the name Jesus Christ or who’ve ever been inside a ‘church’ building. Those who have reason

to laugh and those who cry; those hurting, those hopeless, angry, cursing – who get drunk, who eat this or that thought unclean, etc... and are true blue sinning man/woman. They will stand with you upon Mt Zion – as well, those whom we now judge blessed of Gd. .

Sometimes, membership in this or that – is for exclusivity, expediency, and/or fiscal purposes.

Tuppence.