When will our Characters reflect Jesus'

[Guest]

Before or after the second coming?

Here Ellen White seems to say before. What does the Bible say? And what say you?

The change from earth to heaven will not change men's character; the happiness of the redeemed in heaven results from the character formed in this life after the image of Christ. The saints in heaven will first have been saints on earth. {Mar 326}

Only those will enter heaven who in probationary time have formed a character that breathes a heavenly influence. The saint in heaven must first be a saint upon earth. {CG 481}

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

You've already formed your opinion by using the EGW quotes.

I don't know what the Bible has to say on this subject. But I do know that God is fair and that a lot of people who weren't "saints" on earth will be in heaven. What about those who died in a car accident before they could ask for forgiveness for a sin, but on the whole, they were on the trail upwards towards God?

I know my Dad will be in heaven. He wasn't perfect, but he was the most humble Christian man I ever knew. I think God takes things into account that we don't know about.

[Steve Billiter]

Before or after the second coming?

Here Ellen White seems to say before. What does the Bible say? And what say you?

The change from earth to heaven will not change men's character; the happiness of the redeemed in heaven results from the character formed in this life after the image of Christ. The saints in heaven will first have been saints on earth. {Mar 326}

Only those will enter heaven who in probationary time have formed a character that breathes a heavenly influence. The saint in heaven must first be a saint upon earth. {CG 481}

Richard, you probably already know what my answer is; EGW is correct as it lines up perfectly with the Bible.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne.

Overcoming sin before probation closes means forming characters for heaven fit for the society of Holy beings, including the Father and Son.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Keeping the commandments is also overcoming all sin as sin is the transgression of the law. The qualifications to eat of the tree of life is keeping the commandments. A condition which should result from meeting all the conditions of the free gift of salvation according to the merits of Christ.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[SivartM]

Maybe instead of worrying about the "when" we should be focusing on the "who", as in, who is Jesus?

1. Nobody will ever agree (unless by some miracle everyone actually practices humility), and

2. Most of those on the "before the 2nd coming" "side" will just use their belief to condemn others (not themselves, of course) whose characters are "not developed enough".

[Gerr]

The reflection starts when we become converted. It may be very fuzzy at first, but it should become clearer as the years go by, as we are "transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another," 2 Cor 3:18 ESV.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The reflection starts when we become converted. It may be very fuzzy at first, but it should become clearer as the years go by, as we are "transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another," 2 Cor 3:18 ESV.

YES! That's what I was trying to say. I knew it was in the Bible somewhere. Thanks, Gerry!

[Guest]

I think God takes things into account that we don't know about.

I believe you're right about that. Also people who died never having really known the truth, but loved the LORD, and lived up to what light they did have.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Before or after the second coming?

Here Ellen White seems to say before. What does the Bible say? And what say you?

The change from earth to heaven will not change men's character; the happiness of the redeemed in heaven results from the character formed in this life after the image of Christ. The saints in heaven will first have been saints on earth. {Mar 326}

Only those will enter heaven who in probationary time have formed a character that breathes a heavenly influence. The saint in heaven must first be a saint upon earth. {CG 481}

Richard, you probably already know what my answer is; EGW is correct as it lines up perfectly with the Bible.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne.

Overcoming sin before probation closes means forming characters for heaven fit for the society of Holy beings, including the Father and Son.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Keeping the commandments is also overcoming all sin as sin is the transgression of the law. The qualifications to eat of the tree of life is keeping the commandments. A condition which should result from meeting all the conditions of the free gift of salvation according to the merits of Christ.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Thanks for the contribution Steve. As long we align ourselves with the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy, we will not be led astray.

[SivartM]

Thanks for the contribution Steve. As long we align ourselves with the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy, we will not be led astray.

Right, just like the Shepherd's Rod and the Branch Davidians!

[Note: I am only half joking. Both groups really believed that they were in line with the Bible and Ellen White (moreso Ellen White, though). The difference is in knowing Jesus... but that is off topic. I just had to pop in and say something that everyone will probably attack me for for no reason.]

[Robert]

The change from earth to heaven will not change men's character; the happiness of the redeemed in heaven results from the character formed in this life....

If you delight in God's law of agape you have a character fit for heaven.

[Robert]

Overcoming sin before probation closes means forming characters for heaven fit for the society of Holy beings, including the Father and Son.

Not!

[Nan]

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when He appears, we shall

be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

1 John 3:2 NIV

[Gerr]

The reflection starts when we become converted. It may be very fuzzy at first, but it should become clearer as the years go by, as we are "transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another," 2 Cor 3:18 ESV.

I'd like to modify this a little after thinking more about it.

Since man was created in the image of God, and since His image has not been totally obliterated, I dare say that even the uncoverted still to some degree reflect that image.

[Woody]

Quote:

The difference is in knowing Jesus... but that is off topic.

Knowing Jesus should never be off topic.

[Woody]

Quote:

even the uncoverted still to some degree reflect that image

Ain't that the truth. Finally some agreement. I think we can go to the bank on that.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

The difference is in knowing Jesus... but that is off topic.

Knowing Jesus should never be off topic.

If the discussion is about mopping the floor, does Jesus really expect us to bring Him into the conversation?

If the discussion is about baby rabbits and how a dog eats them, does Jesus expect us to bring Him into the conversation?

If I need a new part for my computer to work and ask about it on the forum, should I have included Jesus as part of my question?

[Woody]

Pray without ceasing ... 1 Thess. 5:17

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

That did not answer my question. But it sounded good.

[Woody]

Thank you.

[Robert]

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when He appears, we shall

be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

1 John 3:2 NIV

Sure....

50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." 55 "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SivartM]

That seems to be saying that we will be changed into immortal bodies... not that our characters will be changed.

Not that I disagree. I don't really worry about when my character will change... God will take care of that.

[Robert]

That seems to be saying that we will be changed into immortal bodies... not that our characters will be changed.

Not that I disagree. I don't really worry about when my character will change... God will take care of that.

You received a character worthy of heaven when you were born again...Your mind did a complete turn around....Now your mind became in harmony with God's agape love, but your nature...your bent-to-self remained ....And so the two oppose each other until the day you die.

If you have accepted Christ your mind has a new direction....That's your character....Don't let these legalists tell you opposite for they desire to glory in your performance....Their desire is to place you under a yoke of bondage....misery loves company...so watch out....

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

That seems to be saying that we will be changed into immortal bodies... not that our characters will be changed.

Not that I disagree. I don't really worry about when my character will change... God will take care of that.

You received a character worthy of heaven when you were born again...Your mind did a complete turn around....Now your mind became in harmony with God's agape love, but your nature...your bent-to-self remained ....And so the two oppose each other until the day you die.

If you have accepted Christ your mind has a new direction....That's your character....Don't let these legalists tell you opposite for they desire to glory in your performance....Their desire is to place you under a yoke of bondage....misery loves company...so watch out....

Although justification occurs at the new birth, the process of sanctification just begins. Along with the new mind and attitude Christ gives us through the Holy Spirit at justification, that new attitude should cause a seeking after God, to live by every word that proceeds from Him.

The development of a Godly character is the work of a lifetime.

However, if one dies right after justification, he still is saved, the thief on the cross proves that.

Assigning a works-based theology to sanctification simply does not work. In addition, calling obedience to God's requirements "legalism" across the board shows a very faulty understanding of the Bible.

Here are the Bible texts that show how the process of sanctification and character development should work:

Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

"In the first chapter of Second Peter is presented the progressive work in the Christian life. The whole chapter is a lesson of deep importance. If man, in acquiring the Christian graces, works on the plan of addition, God has pledged Himself to work in his behalf upon the plan of multiplication. "Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord." The work is laid out before every soul that has acknowledged his faith in Jesus Christ by baptism, and has become a receiver of the pledge from the three persons--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (MS 57, 1900)". {6BC 1074.9}

Bible Sanctification

2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Pe 1:9 But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Does anyone think all these things are added at justification, then the forgiven sinner goes along his merry way with a perfect character? No. Common sense even shows us the truth.

What is a babe in Christ?

1Co 3:1 And I, brothers, could not speak to you as to spiritual, but as to carnal, even as to babes in Christ.

1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for till now you were not able to bear it, neither yet now are you able.

1Co 3:3 For you are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are you not carnal, and walk as men?

Paul here is speaking of new converts, much lacking in character development, that cannot yet understand the meat of the Word.

The fruits of the spirit are also closely intertwined with Bible sanctification:

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

We must die to self daily and put on Christ for all this to happen.

Php 2:12 Why, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Php 2:13 For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

It is clear that we cooperate with God in the process of sanctification.

[Robert]

The development of a Godly character is the work of a lifetime.

Maybe, but all along the way we stand "complete in Him". Some grow very little, others mature even more, but ultimately the law doesn't accept anything outside of perfection. Therefore we are saved by what Christ did 2000 years ago.

Rob

[Woody]

That seems to be saying that we will be changed into immortal bodies... not that our characters will be changed.

Not that I disagree. I don't really worry about when my character will change... God will take care of that.

1 Corin. 15:51 "Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

Check out the definition of corrupt.

We are corrupt now. And in SO many ways. But when those in Him ... see His face ... they will be changed and no longer will they have corrupt characters.