When will our Characters reflect Jesus'

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Steve Billiter

The development of a Godly character is the work of a lifetime.

Maybe, but all along the way we stand "complete in Him". Some grow very little, others mature even more, but ultimately the law doesn't accept anything outside of perfection. Therefore we are saved by what Christ did 2000 years ago.

Rob

Yes. Well stated Rob. We are complete in Him and yet our characters still need refining. They remain corrupt. But when we see His face ... they will no longer be corrupt.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

We are corrupt now. And in SO many ways. But when we see His face ... we will be changed and no longer will we have corrupt characters.

Originally Posted By: Nan

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when He appears, we shall

be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

1 John 3:2 NIV

So it sounds like our characters will be changed when we see Jesus at the 2nd coming. Am I thinking along the right lines here?

[Woody]

Quote:

So it sounds like our characters will be changed when we see Jesus at the 2nd coming. Am I thinking along the right lines here?

Good Question Pam. Let me put it along these practical lines:

Would you want to see your character or mine in Heaven? In Heaven there can be no sin. Are we really saying that any of us here have the type of characters that would be permitted or even desired in Heaven?

I think not. We continue to sin. So ... we must be changed so that we are fit for heaven. Sure that process of sanctification starts here in our lives on Earth. But, none of us are nor will we be fit for heaven with just our sanctification that is our's on earth.

The work must be completed. And it will be completed when we see His face. At that time He will fit us for Heaven.

[Woody]

When He comes ... we will truly see Him as He is.

For the glimpses that we see of Him on this earth are not complete. They are not full because they are tainted with sin. We have so many misperceptions of God.

But all that will disappear we are told ... WHEN WE SEE HIM (at the second coming) AS HE IS. IOWs ... When we SEE HIS FACE.

It will be a magical moment. A miracle of God.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

So sanctification isn't completed until we see the face of Jesus? I like that way of explanation...makes sense.

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

The change from earth to heaven will not change men's character; the happiness of the redeemed in heaven results from the character formed in this life....

If you delight in God's law of agape you have a character fit for heaven.

And that is precisely the context within which EGW was speaking in the excerpt posted which was the context in which Jesus spoke about being perfect as the Father in Heaven.

The immediate context of one of the quotes in the OP:

"The daily acts of life tell the measure and mold of our disposition and character. Where there is a lack of home religion, a profession of faith is valueless. Then let no unkind words fall from the lips of those who compose the home circle. Make the atmosphere fragrant with tender thoughtfulness of others. Only those will enter heaven who in probationary time have formed a character that breathes a heavenly influence. The saint in heaven must first be a saint upon earth." {CG 481.1}

[Woody]

So sanctification isn't completed until we see the face of Jesus? I like that way of explanation...makes sense.

Well ... I had never really thought of it in that way Pam. But in a way that is true. I think the passages about sanctification being the work of a lifetime ... are just stating that we never stop the process of sanctification until we die. Then ... after we are raised to see Jesus ... YES our sanctification picks up again. After all ... our lifetime continues. :)

[Robert]

So sanctification isn't completed until we see the face of Jesus? I like that way of explanation...makes sense.

Well now, be careful. When you accepted Christ you were accepting salvation accomplished 2000 years ago. What does Paul say?

30 It is because of him [God]that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our justification, sanctification and glorification. 31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

So "in Christ" you already have been justified, sanctified and glorified....

All you can do is experience what is already true of you "in Christ". Hence, when you accepted Christ you had peace with God. And now while you await the coming of the Lord you can begin to experience sanctification, not to save you, but so that you can experience victory over the devil and the flesh in the here and now. It's good to leave behind besetting sins...to live in peace with those who you couldn't before, etc....And if you keep the faith (and you will) you will received from Christ a humanity that is perfect in every detail. So right now you are already complete in the holy history of Christ....

Rob

[Guest]

So it sounds like our characters will be changed when we see Jesus at the 2nd coming. Am I thinking along the right lines here?

If you live to see him come, your character will not be changed, but your body will. It is different with those who have already died, but the ones who are living at that time will already have the right character for heaven. Says the prophet:

The change from earth to heaven will not change men's character; the happiness of the redeemed in heaven results from the character formed in this life after the image of Christ. {Mar 326}

The Heavenly Character Must Be Acquired on Earth

Be not deceived. God is not mocked. Nothing but holiness will prepare you for heaven. It is sincere, experimental piety alone that can give you a pure, elevated character and enable you to enter into the presence of God, who dwelleth in light unapproachable. The heavenly character must be acquired on earth, or it can never be acquired at all. {CCh 187}

Our hearts may be filled with all the fullness of God; but there is something for us to do. We must not pet our faults and sins, but put them away, and make haste to set our hearts in order. When this is done, let us take the key of faith, and unlock the storehouse of God's rich blessings. . . . There is an infinite fullness to draw from; and we have the promise of our divine Lord, "According to your faith be it unto you." We may win the crown of life, a place at God's right hand, and as we enter the pearly gates, hear the words, sweeter than any music, "Well done, good and faithful servant . . . : enter thou into the joy of thy lord" (Matthew 25:23) (Signs of the Times, Aug. 18, 1887).

Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1Peter 1:8,9

Through the measure of His grace furnished to the human agent, not one need miss heaven. Perfection of character is attainable by every one who strives for it. This is made the very foundation of the new covenant of the gospel. {AG 141.3}

[pnattmbtc]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

We are corrupt now. And in SO many ways. But when we see His face ... we will be changed and no longer will we have corrupt characters.

Originally Posted By: Nan

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when He appears, we shall

be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

1 John 3:2 NIV

So it sounds like our characters will be changed when we see Jesus at the 2nd coming. Am I thinking along the right lines here?

No. The character can't change instantaneously. That's impossible, which can be seen by considering how the character is formed.

The character is formed on the basis of repeated actions and decisions. As a man thinks, so is he. God could only change our characters instantaneously by doing something akin to a lobotomy. He'd have to take our our thoughts, and put in other thoughts, and do so in a way that we didn't notice, and which didn't mess us up more than it helped us. But God is a respecter of freedom, and He would never do a thing like this. Instead, He teaches us through the Holy Spirit, giving us power and grace to form characters which are in harmony with the principles of His government.

Regarding what John said, He's not saying that those who see Christ will be changed to be like Him, but they are like Him, because they see Him as He is. Seeing Christ as He is is what makes us like Him. This is why an understanding of God's character is so important. By beholding we are transformed.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Now I'm all confused. Nevermind. It's not important that I understand.. **walks away**

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

So it sounds like our characters will be changed when we see Jesus at the 2nd coming. Am I thinking along the right lines here?

If you live to see him come, your character will not be changed, but your body will. It is different with those who have already died, but the ones who are living at that time will already have the right character for heaven. Says the prophet:

in saying this i am not referring to you, richard.

i believe those preaching last generation perfectionism have not really understood....it seems when we get into a defensive position we lose sight of the whole picture.

anyway, God has always expected perfect characters in His followers, not just the last generation. one will have a hard reading the bible and finding a place where the last generation only has to have a perfect character.

what will be different for those alive at Christs coming than for any other generation is that we will have to have come to the point where we can survive the brightness of His coming, or the conviction that will come to all.

if we have one cherished sin when He appears the conviction of that sin will "kill" us.

that will be a horrible day for the lost. a horrible, unredeemable day. to realize that no matter how much they/we wanted to believe whatever, here is Christ and this old earth as they/we know it will be forever ended.

only those of us who truly want the character of Christ and the simplicity of heaven will make it. talking about it, being "right", all that will matter not at all.

[teresaq]

Now I'm all confused. Nevermind. It's not important that I understand.. **walks away**

dont rudy, please.

make us learn how to make it understandable. not that understanding always comes at once, spiritual things are spiritually discerned and that comes bit by bit. there is still so much more for me to understand that i can really understand the truth of that saying.

anyway, our characters, how we think, what we want, has to be changed, but that has always been true since adam and eve. what will change at the second coming for the "righteous" only are our bodies, which will include our "natures".

others may be able to express that better than i.

[teresaq]

the whole idea, rudy, isnt for us to be able to have our pious little discussions among ourselves, like the pharisees, but be able to share the message with all.

[Woody]

character: Show Spelled Pronunciation [kar-ik-ter] Show IPA

–noun 1. the aggregate of features and traits that form the individual nature of some person or thing.

[Guest]

God has always expected perfect characters in His followers, not just the last generation. one will have a hard reading the bible and finding a place where the last generation only has to have a perfect character.

[Robert]

Nothing but holiness will prepare you for heaven.

Why can't you use your Bible...especially Paul? Why do you quote EGW as an authority? She herself insisted that SDA go to their Bibles. In fact she stated that if SDA had gone to their Bibles she would have never been used.....

[Woody]

Quote:

What I'm trying to say is that there are those who have died not having obtained a perfect character yet, but were on the right path, and the trend of their life was going in that direction. God will take these things into consideration.

Just being on the right path don't cut it. We still have the issue that we simply can't allow anyone in Heaven who might sin. Being on the right path is good in and of it's self. But it ain't enough. Something has to happen to allow this less than perfect sinner in Heaven.

[Guest]

1Pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

The end is not the beginning Robert.

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

So it sounds like our characters will be changed when we see Jesus at the 2nd coming. Am I thinking along the right lines here?

...i believe those preaching last generation perfectionism have not really understood....it seems when we get into a defensive position we lose sight of the whole picture.

anyway, God has always expected perfect characters in His followers, not just the last generation. one will have a hard reading the bible and finding a place where the last generation only has to have a perfect character...

One of the big problems with the last generation perfectionism theory is that it would be decidedly unfair. How fair is it to that generation to be held to a higher standard than that for any preceding generation? And how does one know which standard applies, since all who die before Jesus comes get the lower required standard? And what of all those brand new converts of previous generations that die seen after conversion with little of no opportunity of the life-long opportunity for character development? Will they not get a chance for character development or are they changed, mind and body, in a "twinkling of an eye"?

Consider two otherwise devout Christians living in adultery. One dies while in the act of adultery the day before Jesus returns, and sees the light just before gasping their last breath and repents with that last breath. The other person in great shock and sorrow over their loss is unable to even consider repentance at that point, wakes up the next morning to see Jesus coming in the clouds, and feels great conviction and regret, realizing it is too late now. The one dead is now not of the "last generation" to be translated without seeing death and can be saved. But the co-sinner is lost since their last cherished and unrepented sin bars them at the gate of heaven, since no further character change is possible on the other side of the gate.

And exactly what is "character" anyway?

[Woody]

Quote:

And exactly what is "character" anyway?

The definition is provided in a couple of posts above.

Oh well ... I'll just post it here again.

character: Show Spelled Pronunciation [kar-ik-ter] Show IPA

–noun 1. the aggregate of features and traits that form the individual nature of some person or thing.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Nothing but holiness will prepare you for heaven.

Why can't you use your Bible...especially Paul? Why do you quote EGW as an authority? She herself insisted that SDA go to their Bibles. In fact she stated that if SDA had gone to their Bibles she would have never been used.....

Heb 12:14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

[Robert]

Excellent points....

[teresaq]

But the co-sinner is lost since their last cherished and unrepented sin bars them at the gate of heaven, since no further character change is possible on the other side of the gate.

[Robert]

Heb 12:14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

No problem....If you have accepted Christ a change will be seen....The thief on the cross experienced a change....Think it out....He believed what Christ said, "Today, you will be with me in paradise." He accepted Christ and then He saw Him die! That must have hit him hard....I'm sure his nature and the devil put thoughts into his mind like "how can you believe that this man was the Son of God? I mean get real, he just died."

So he persevered...he learned patience....when everything around him was telling him that this man was a fake...after all he was dead.

The thief on the cross also had his legs broken...he saw Christ's lifeless body and still persevered. That a faith that works....Hence he did experience genuine fruit.....

Good point,

Rob