Twilight Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 Hey Mark ... according to you ... I'm going to Hell. So, why would you pay any attention to me anyways? I have a lot to live up to according to your low expectations of me. How old are you woody? The reason I ask, is from the other thread it was made clear that some of the posters on here are quite young. I am beginning to wonder if you are young. Mark Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 29, 2010 Members Posted January 29, 2010 Originally Posted By: rudywoofs some people have phantom limb experiences where they have no hand, but they feel like someone is touching their hand...that "feeling" is being experienced in the mind. this thread is so dead. Mark, it seems like you're arguing for argument's sake, not for any good reason. People have given you all sorts of answers and you reject them. For the life of me, I can't think of any reason why you continue this charade. Sister, maybe you should treat others with the respect you so desire to have yourself? Calling this discussion a "charade" is insulting. How would you respond if I accused your post of being a "charade" that served no useful purpose? Mark Mark, I could think of no other word to describe what I'm seeing going on here in this thread. I was not tryinig to be funny or insulting. As I said, people have given you so much to work with and you reject all of it. Common sense is needed here in this thread and you don't seem to want to use it. I don't know why. Sorry for using the word, "charade"....that was all I could think of at the time. It does appear, though, that you are arguing only for the sake of arguing. It makes me wonder why. And you didn't address the issue I brought up about pain in phantom limbs. I wonder why? Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Woody Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Yes. It does seem 'infantile' doesn't it Pam. It would appear as you say that some just like to argue for argument sake. And please Mark. Don't make insulting comments about the youth of this church and the youth on this forum. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
karl Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 [You may not think it is the physical heart that is the "heart" in scripture, that is fine, it is never a test as far as I am concerned. But what is a test, is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, as genuine Christianity is impossible without that. Many have that experience, but could not explain it from scripture. Whilst many have "doctrine" and confuse that with the experience of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That is what I am trying to do. To get people to think about that. Unfortunately, they all get hung up on the heart meaning "heart" and want to argue that it does not mean "heart". :-) Mark :-) Yes, I am with you all the way on the indwelling of the Holy Spirit - constraining my thoughts, feelings, words, actions, appetite, temper,... everything. If people get hung up on "heart" find some other way to express it. Quote
SivartM Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 How old are you woody? The reason I ask, is from the other thread it was made clear that some of the posters on here are quite young. I am beginning to wonder if you are young. Mark Thank you for supporting the young people of this forum. I don't think Redwood is very young, because he hasn't joined the young people's forum where we talk about Teletubbies and wonder what all of you adults are talking about. Heehee! :) Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Hey ... If you had invited me SivartM ... I would have joined. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
SivartM Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Sorry, but none of us know how to invite people. Maybe when I'm older I'll find out how to do things like that. :( Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
teresaq Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 So to examine point 1: Upon what biblical basis would we assume the heart means "mind", in as much as the "heart" is where the "emotions/lusts/desires" are found? If the desires are in the mind, why doesn't the bible say that? Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
pnattmbtc Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Yes, I am with you all the way on the indwelling of the Holy Spirit - constraining my thoughts, feelings, words, actions, appetite, temper,... everything. If people get hung up on "heart" find some other way to express it. The only reason people got hung upon on "heart" is that Mark made such an issue of it's being literal. Since no one else considers it to be literal, had he simply made whatever points he wished to make, this would never have come up in the first place. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Twilight Posted January 31, 2010 Author Posted January 31, 2010 Originally Posted By: Twilight [You may not think it is the physical heart that is the "heart" in scripture, that is fine, it is never a test as far as I am concerned. But what is a test, is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, as genuine Christianity is impossible without that. Many have that experience, but could not explain it from scripture. Whilst many have "doctrine" and confuse that with the experience of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That is what I am trying to do. To get people to think about that. Unfortunately, they all get hung up on the heart meaning "heart" and want to argue that it does not mean "heart". :-) Mark :-) Yes, I am with you all the way on the indwelling of the Holy Spirit - constraining my thoughts, feelings, words, actions, appetite, temper,... everything. If people get hung up on "heart" find some other way to express it. People do get hung up on it, but it is really the indwelling of the Holy Spirit I have realised is the real issue. Did you know that prophecy shows us that those that do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when Jesus comes, will be lost? Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
karl Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 Originally Posted By: karl Yes, I am with you all the way on the indwelling of the Holy Spirit - constraining my thoughts, feelings, words, actions, appetite, temper,... everything. If people get hung up on "heart" find some other way to express it. People do get hung up on it, but it is really the indwelling of the Holy Spirit I have realised is the real issue. Did you know that prophecy shows us that those that do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when Jesus comes, will be lost? Yes, this is why the apostles and Christ talked about it so much. We need to be immersed in the Holy Spirit. There are too many people trying to quell the voice of the Holy Spirit. I kid you not, Mark, we had a pastor years ago in our Adventist church in Riverside, who basically taught that our responsibility as Christians was to quell the voice of the Holy Spirit. He was one of these who believed that everybody was saved in Christ on the cross. He believed that the enemy of Christians is guilt. If we can just get rid of guilt by accepting the fact that we are already saved, all will be well. (Would the Holy Spirit please stop convicting us of sin?) He almost destroyed our church. Conference had to step in and ship him off to Tiero Del Fuego or somewhere. Quote
Twilight Posted January 31, 2010 Author Posted January 31, 2010 Originally Posted By: Twilight People do get hung up on it, but it is really the indwelling of the Holy Spirit I have realised is the real issue. Did you know that prophecy shows us that those that do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when Jesus comes, will be lost? Yes, this is why the apostles and Christ talked about it so much. We need to be immersed in the Holy Spirit. There are too many people trying to quell the voice of the Holy Spirit. I kid you not, Mark, we had a pastor years ago in our Adventist church in Riverside, who basically taught that our responsibility as Christians was to quell the voice of the Holy Spirit. He was one of these who believed that everybody was saved in Christ on the cross. He believed that the enemy of Christians is guilt. If we can just get rid of guilt by accepting the fact that we are already saved, all will be well. (Would the Holy Spirit please stop convicting us of sin?) He almost destroyed our church. Conference had to step in and ship him off to Tiero Del Fuego or somewhere. I have started a thread to discuss this Karl... Would love to hear your thoughts and share something with you, if you are not already aware of it? http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/329110.html#Post329110 Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
pnattmbtc Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 People do get hung up on it, but it is really the indwelling of the Holy Spirit I have realised is the real issue. Which is what? That is, what is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Twilight Posted February 1, 2010 Author Posted February 1, 2010 Originally Posted By: Twilight People do get hung up on it, but it is really the indwelling of the Holy Spirit I have realised is the real issue. Which is what? That is, what is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? What does the bible say? Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
SivartM Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 Whatever you want it to say! Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Guest Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 Whatever you want it to say! Now what kind of a remark is that? Is that any way to speak to your elders? Is that really what the Bible says? Quote
teresaq Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 Originally Posted By: SivartM Whatever you want it to say! Now what kind of a remark is that? Is that any way to speak to your elders? Is that really what the Bible says? your behavior is much mature than some of your "elders", sivart. :) Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
SivartM Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 Uh, sorry if it offended you; I didn't mean it that way. What I was trying to express was that often when people are trying to make a point from the Bible, they are under the assumption that their interpretation is superior to everyone else's. So saying "What does the Bible say?" to someone who has biblically disagrees with you is usually (whether intentional or not) an attempt to steer the discussion over to your viewpoint while automatically discrediting all dissenting viewpoints as unbiblical. People can make the Bible say anything they want to say. And then they have biblical beliefs. But that does not make them true. So we need more than "What does the Bible say?", we need "What does the Bible mean?" Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Guest Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 I see. Yes you're right about that. Sometimes people read in things that are not there, and skip over things that are. Quote
SivartM Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 Exactly. We cannot fully understand the Truth until we can see all Truth at once. Until then we have bits and pieces to put together as well as we can. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
pnattmbtc Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 What I was trying to express was that often when people are trying to make a point from the Bible, they are under the assumption that their interpretation is superior to everyone else's. So saying "What does the Bible say?" to someone who has biblically disagrees with you is usually (whether intentional or not) an attempt to steer the discussion over to your viewpoint while automatically discrediting all dissenting viewpoints as unbiblical. People can make the Bible say anything they want to say. And then they have biblical beliefs. But that does not make them true. So we need more than "What does the Bible say?", we need "What does the Bible mean?" This is a good point. I've tried to make it on a number of occasions. The idea seems to be the Bible says (or means) what I think it says (or means). Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 Quote: T:People do get hung up on it, but it is really the indwelling of the Holy Spirit I have realised is the real issue. p:Which is what? That is, what is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? T:What does the bible say? As per SivartM's well taken point, what do you think the Bible means? Can you express that without repeating what the Bible says? (i.e., express the thought in your own words) Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Twilight Posted February 2, 2010 Author Posted February 2, 2010 Quote: T:People do get hung up on it, but it is really the indwelling of the Holy Spirit I have realised is the real issue. p:Which is what? That is, what is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? T:What does the bible say? As per SivartM's well taken point, what do you think the Bible means? Can you express that without repeating what the Bible says? (i.e., express the thought in your own words) I am sorry my friend. :-) I am not interested in "my thoughts" or "my opinion". I asked you what the bible plainly states without any interpretation. So what does the bible say. When you find that, you will have the answer to your question. Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
pnattmbtc Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 I am sorry my friend. :-) I am not interested in "my thoughts" or "my opinion". I asked you what the bible plainly states without any interpretation. So what does the bible say. When you find that, you will have the answer to your question. This is incomprehensible to me. You insist on a literal interpretation to something you have no idea what the meaning is. Why would you think there is any value in this? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
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