Heart - a faculty of the mind?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

But brother, what do YOU think it means?

You are telling me I am wrong, but not stating why?

I wasn't making any comment about what you thought about "temple." This was just an example to illustrate a point, which was that if you're going to take "heart" literally, then, by the same logic, you could take "temple" literally. I'm assuming you don't think we're literally religious buildings.

Quote:

For you to state this position is incorrect, you have to establish your own.

I made no such statement.

Quote:

Otherwise it is a judgement without reasoning and is therefore not really relevant as a discussion point, but more as an expressed opinion.

It was just an example.

And yes I do think we are the temples of God.

That is what the scripture says.

Know ye not?

Mark :-)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Trying to read this thread to make sense of it is like trying to make sense out a Dr. Seuss story.

[Woody]

Probably best to not even try.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

you havent read the pioneers, have you?

Sure, but proof comes from the Bible and SOP, not the pioneers. I guess you haven't read much Ellen White have you?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

I wasn't making any comment about what you thought about "temple." This was just an example to illustrate a point, which was that if you're going to take "heart" literally, then, by the same logic, you could take "temple" literally. I'm assuming you don't think we're literally religious buildings.

And yes I do think we are the temples of God.

That is what the scripture says.

Know ye not?

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

nicodemus understood spiritual things literally, also.

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

Can you please answer the question my friend?

What do you think the "temple" is, if not the body?

Mark :-)

This has nothing to do with my point. Let's finish one thing before starting another. Did you understand my point? If yes, please state what it was. After that, assuming we reach an agreement, we'll gone on to the next thing.

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

And yes I do think we are the temples of God.

That is what the scripture says.

Know ye not?

Mark :-)

By "temple" you mean "religious building"?

[Guest]

He means dwelling place of the Spirit, just like the Bible says. Why do you quibble over words?

[pnattmbtc]

My point has been that if he is going to take "heart" literally, then, following the same logic he used ("the Bible says 'heart'," so it must mean a literal heart), then he should take "temple" literally as well. Why are you taking issue with this? You agree with me regarding "heart."

Regarding the "quibbling over words," the whole point has to do with words, whether they are literal or not. I'm saying neither "heart" nor "temple" is literal, as these do not mean, respectively the blood-pumping muscle nor a religious building.

[Guest]

A Temple can be anywhere the Spirit of God dwells. I have known all my life that God considers the bodies of his people to be a Temple for the Holy Spirit. From the ascension of Christ on.

So when I see the word temple in that context, I don't think of a building with walls.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I have known all my life that God considers the bodies of his people to be a Temple for the Holy Spirit.

Your whole life? How did you first figure it out?

[Guest]

They started indoctrinating me while I was still in the delivery room.

[Guest]

Perhaps I should have said: virtually all my life.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

LOL

[Guest]

What kind of puppy?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

And yes I do think we are the temples of God.

That is what the scripture says.

Know ye not? Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

nicodemus understood spiritual things literally, also.

Teresa, Nicodemus was ignorant of spiritual things.

He thought that he could be a Christian by his own best effort.

Jesus pointed out his ignorance and pointed him to the experience of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the born again experience.

The same truth you are denying is a reality.

The same argument you and pnat have been using, was the argument Nicodemus used.

Trying to take a spiritual statement and remove its application, leaving only legalism or positive mental attitude behind, whilst using a mocking question to avoid the issue.

Sister, I do not want your "false" positive mental attitude theology.

I would rather be born again...

I do not want "if I read enough I will get there" theology that never works, I have tried it and seen it in others, it does not work and it is ugly and vile, it drives people from Christianity.

I want the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the Christianity that God wants to give.

What you are offering I can find in any positive mental attitude book...

"Read enough and my ideas will change..."

That is not Christianity...

No thank you sister.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Quote:

Can you please answer the question my friend?

What do you think the "temple" is, if not the body?

Mark :-)

This has nothing to do with my point. Let's finish one thing before starting another. Did you understand my point? If yes, please state what it was. After that, assuming we reach an agreement, we'll gone on to the next thing.

My friend, you used the analogy of the temple in a mocking manner to make a point.

So please now answer the question, you introduced the subject.

What do you think the "temple" is, if not the body?

Mark :-)

[pnattmbtc]

A Temple can be anywhere the Spirit of God dwells. I have known all my life that God considers the bodies of his people to be a Temple for the Holy Spirit. From the ascension of Christ on.

So when I see the word temple in that context, I don't think of a building with walls.

This didn't start with the ascension of Christ. The HS dwelt in the OT saints as well as with the NT ones.

That's incidental, however. That "temple" shouldn't be taken literally is clear from using common sense, the method you recommended several pages ago.

[Twilight]

Quote:

And yes I do think we are the temples of God.

That is what the scripture says.

Know ye not?

Mark :-)

By "temple" you mean "religious building"?

That is a very imature and childish argument Brother.

Please explain what you think the "temple" is?

[pnattmbtc]

My friend, you used the analogy of the temple in a mocking manner to make a point.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Richard

A Temple can be anywhere the Spirit of God dwells. I have known all my life that God considers the bodies of his people to be a Temple for the Holy Spirit. From the ascension of Christ on.

So when I see the word temple in that context, I don't think of a building with walls.

This didn't start with the ascension of Christ. The HS dwelt in the OT saints as well as with the NT ones.

That's incidental, however. That "temple" shouldn't be taken literally is clear from using common sense, the method you recommended several pages ago.

Where do you find that in the Bible Pnat?

Please supply a text detailing the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the OT.

Not the "outpouring" of the Holy Spirit, but the indwelling in the OT.

Mark :-)

[pnattmbtc]

T:And yes I do think we are the temples of God.

That is what the scripture says.

Know ye not?

Mark :-)

p:By "temple" you mean "religious building"?

T:That is a very imature and childish argument Brother.

Please explain what you think the "temple" is?

It's neither "immature" nor "childish" nor "mocking," (as you put in your former post). It's an illustration that you are not following the methodology you yourself laid out. I've explained this in the post previous to this one, so won't repeat myself, but will just ask if you understand and agree with the explanation.

I'm also a bit perplexed as to why you're taking this the way you are. I have no ill intent against your person. I simply disagree with something you said. I'm arguing against your idea. There's nothing personal involved. I've tried to be as respectful as I can be to you personally.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

My friend, you used the analogy of the temple in a mocking manner to make a point.

No, there was no mocking. I'm sorry you read it that way. Problem with reading things from the internet, no body language or tone of voice, but there was no mocking on my end. I was completely serious, the point being that your methodology, if taken consistently, would lead you to taking "temple" literally, as well as "heart." You're not following the methodology you laid out. You're following the methodology Richard laid out.

What you said was that you take things a certain way because "That's what the Bible says." What Richard said is that one takes things literally unless common sense dictates otherwise (not the words he used, but the idea). You're actually doing what Richard said, not what you said.

Quote:

So please now answer the question, you introduced the subject.

What do you think the "temple" is, if not the body?

Mark :-)

As I stated, this was simply an example. Let's finish one thing before starting another. Do you agree with the point made here?

Pnat, if you want to define when a text is literal/spiritual/figurative, then please supply your own personal method. You again are pulling a position down without stating your own.

Do you have a method you use?

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I would also like to insist you share what you think the temple is my friend.

Criticising anothers position without sharing your own is very impolite...

Mark :-)

[pnattmbtc]

Where do you find that in the Bible Pnat?

Please supply a text detailing the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the OT.

Not the "outpouring" of the Holy Spirit, but the indwelling in the OT.

Mark :-)

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

Pnat, if you want to define when a text is literal/spiritual/figurative, then please supply your own personal method. You again are pulling a position down without stating your own.

Do you have a method you use?

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I would also like to insist you share what you think the temple is my friend.

Criticising anothers position without sharing your own is very impolite...

Mark :-)

A discussion is more pleasant if you answer the questions asked of you, before going off into some other area. I asked you if you agreed with what I said.

Quote:

What you said was that you take things a certain way because "That's what the Bible says." What Richard said is that one takes things literally unless common sense dictates otherwise (not the words he used, but the idea). You're actually doing what Richard said, not what you said.

I'm asking if you agree with this.

Regarding my position, I think what Richard said is fine.