Is lying a sin no matter the situation?

[monica]

Is lying a sin no matter the situation?

Do we always have to tell the truth?

For example, I have a Christian friend who slept with a girl a few years ago. Recently somebody asked him if he was still a virgin or not. Should he have told the truth or is it ok that he didn´t? Do we have to tell everybody the truth about everything?

[olger]

"Thou shalt not bear false witness."

Your friend could respond that it is none of their business.

Not everything about you has to be told to everyone else. Proverbs gives high marks to discretion. Discretion means we don't tell everybody everything. Some people can't handle knowing everything.

So who should we tell everything?

God and our spouse.

rejoice always,

g

[Gerr]

NO. Because "Love.... always protects," 1 Cor 13:6,7 NIV.

[olger]

Dr. C. my friend.

Your answer is troubling to me because it sounds just like other relativistic approaches.. No absolute truth etc...

Yes Monica. Lying is always a sin.

And there are times when silence is eloquence.

oG

[oldsailor29]

Is lying a sin no matter the situation?

Do we always have to tell the truth?

For example, I have a Christian friend who slept with a girl a few years ago. Recently somebody asked him if he was still a virgin or not. Should he have told the truth or is it ok that he didn´t? Do we have to tell everybody the truth about everything?

No Monica, Lying is not always a sin. Someone quoted, "Thou shalt not bear false witness," but they left out an important part, "against thy neighbor." For starters, bearing false witness is a special or specific kind of lie. It is when testimony of false accusation is given. And there is the further instruction, "against." Which means that the false witness shall not be to someone's detriment. This means it is okay to lie for someone as opposed to against. And the last part of the commandment says "Thy neighbor." And if you read the story of the good Samaritan, you should know that your neighbor is someone who will help you when you are down. So the commandment essentially says, "Thou shalt not tell a detrimental lie about someone who would help you when you are down." It seems to me that this is targeting a specific type of lie as sinful.

[oldsailor29]

Also remember Rahab, who lied to the bad guys in order to protect the good guys who were hiding in her whorehouse. No doubt she is a hero and we will see her in Heaven.

[Robert]

Do we always have to tell the truth?

You don't have to answer the question....

[Robert]

Also remember Rahab, who lied to the bad guys in order to protect the good guys who were hiding in her whorehouse. No doubt she is a hero and we will see her in Heaven.

Rahab's faith was made real by what she did. She believed in the God of Israel even though her lifestyle didn't show it. Nevertheless, God took her where she was at....She put her life on the line in order to help the Israeli spies, but this doesn't condone lying. Satan is the father of deception and therefore technically speaking all lies come from him.

[Robert]

NO. Because "Love.... always protects," 1 Cor 13:6,7 NIV.

But not through deception....

[oldsailor29]

Rahab's faith was made real by what she did. She believed in the God of Israel even though her lifestyle didn't show it. Nevertheless, God took her where she was at....She put her life on the line in order to help the Israeli spies, but this doesn't condone lying. Satan is the father of deception and therefore technically speaking all lies come from him.

Well Robert, Satan didn't create himself, did he?

If Rahab's lie did not condone lying in certain situations, then what would? Obviously her lie was the right thing to do in that situation, so that means it is condoned.

And besides, there may be more to this situation than a lie. The situation of which Monica speaks may involve question of marriage, and all the New Testament rules involving more than one marriage for prospective deacons and elders. Of course I don't know anyone who follows those rules anyway.

[Woody]

Quote:

Do we have to tell everybody the truth about everything?

I think you have answered your question here. Obviously NO

[Woody]

Quote:

Yes Monica. Lying is always a sin.

og have you ever killed an ant? or ... are you one of them environmentalists?

[Robert]

If Rahab's lie did not condone lying in certain situations, then what would?

But that's establishing sin.....All deception comes from Satan. God cannot lie. Titus 1:2

[oldsailor29]

I do not believe Rahab's lie was a sin. And she was not establishing anything. She was not bearing false witness against her neighbor. The law was already established. She was not breaking it with that lie. I know, it seems like everybody wants it to mean all lies are sins, but it does not say that, and what it does say must be read carefully.

[Tom Wetmore]

And ultimately that line of thinking makes all things untrue to be lies, inaccuracy to be lies, all fiction to be lies and thus violating the commandment. A misunderstanding of this commandment, like any other, leads to much too broad an application beyond the original intent. Consider what that approach has done to the Sabbath.

Worth considering isthe story in the OT of God instructing Moses to mislead (lie?) Pharaoh that the Israelites just needed to go 3 days into the desert to worship and offer sacrifices because if they didn't God would punish them with plagues. Or the story of the man of God that lied to another man of God causing the second to disobey a direct instruction of God. The liar got off without punishment but the one who was mislead into disobeying was punished.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

NO. Because "Love.... always protects," 1 Cor 13:6,7 NIV.

But not through deception....

The 9th commandment says, "You shall not bear false witness AGAINST your neighbor."

One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Mt 22:36-40 NIV.

Notice that the greatest commandment cited by Jesus in answer to the lawyer's question was not the 10c. He mentions two: love for God and love for man. The 10 and all other commandments proceed from these two supreme commands.

Question: What/which is the loving thing for Rahab to do for the two spies whom she has come to believe as emissaries from God? Tell the truth that would lead to their demise? Or tell a lie that protects them? This scenario no doubt had been repeated many times during WWII with Christians hiding Jews. If the one hiding Jews simply says he/she can't answer or knew but won't tell, you know that they would torture it out of him/her.

So when I am presented with a moral dilemma that the 10c cannot resolve for me, then I appeal to the 2 greatest commandments.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: oldsailor29

Also remember Rahab, who lied to the bad guys in order to protect the good guys who were hiding in her whorehouse. No doubt she is a hero and we will see her in Heaven.

Rahab's faith was made real by what she did. She believed in the God of Israel even though her lifestyle didn't show it. Nevertheless, God took her where she was at....She put her life on the line in order to help the Israeli spies, but this doesn't condone lying. Satan is the father of deception and therefore technically speaking all lies come from him.

[karl]

There are those who say, "Telling only a part of the truth is lying." This is not so. You could not tell all the truth if you wanted to, for in the first place you do not know it, and in the second place, God never suggested, implied or taught from Genesis to Revelation that it was wrong to tell a part of the truth. Telling a partial truth, which means part lie and part truth, is a different matter, for the part that is a lie is a lie, and sinful.

There are those who say, "If you conceal information which will cause harm to a person, you have lied." This is not a proper definition of lying. You may commit a greater sin than if you lied, but when we talk about a Bible subject, we should define our terms by Bible information as far as we are able to do so. If I know you are driving down a road where the bridge is out, and I deliberately neglect to tell you in the hope that you will run off the bridge and die, I have not lied, but I have sinned. Any effort to justify such a sin by defining it your own way is improper.

It was suggested that Rahab lied to save the spies, and she is listed among the heroes of faith (Heb. 11:31). That does not suggest or imply that she was listed there because God approved of her lying. Noah was listed, yet Noah got drunk (Gen. 9:21). So does that mean God approves of getting drunk? Samson is listed, and he had all sorts of activities with Delilah. What does that prove? The truth is that you cannot find a single example in the Bible where God indicates that he approved of anyone lying, for any cause.

Note another distinction, which needs to be made. In 1 Samuel 16:2, when Samuel was going to anoint David as king, he said, "If Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the Lord said, Take an heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the Lord." He thus prevented Saul from knowing that he anointed David, but he did not lie to him. God at no time requires us to tell another person all that he might desire to know from us. This gives us no right to assume that we are authorized to lie.

[Robert]

Sounds reasonable

[pnattmbtc]

There are those who say, "Telling only a part of the truth is lying." This is not so. You could not tell all the truth if you wanted to, for in the first place you do not know it, and in the second place, God never suggested, implied or taught from Genesis to Revelation that it was wrong to tell a part of the truth. Telling a partial truth, which means part lie and part truth, is a different matter, for the part that is a lie is a lie, and sinful.

There are those who say, "If you conceal information which will cause harm to a person, you have lied." This is not a proper definition of lying.

It really depends upon your purpose, which you got to later on in your explanation. If you tell a part of the truth, because that's all the hearer can bear, well, that's something Jesus did every day of His life. On the other hand, if you tell part of the truth for the purpose of deceiving them, or for some ill purpose, that's another thing, as you pointed out.

[Felix Florimon]

Also remember Rahab, who lied to the bad guys in order to protect the good guys who were hiding in her whorehouse. No doubt she is a hero and we will see her in Heaven.

The problem is that Rahab was just a prostitute who heard and believed in the power of God but did not have a “working relationship” with Him.

I personally don’t feel safe if I am in a position that I need to lie in order to save the lives of others or myself. I feel it is much better to finally learn how to be guided by God so we could mean real protection for those we love and for ourselves without having to lie. The real challenge is not to lie in order to get short-term benefits but how build up a successful life in our relationship with others by always being truthful. This would mean that we would need to learn how to have a positive influence on what kind values other people are guided by.

FF

[oldsailor29]

Too much unnecessary thought going into this subject. When the commandment is read carefully, a lot of lying is not even within the parameters.

[monica]

God at no time requires us to tell another person all that he might desire to know from us. This gives us no right to assume that we are authorized to lie.

And how do you avoid telling everybody the truth about everything without lying? If you try to do it by avoiding the answer, they will know the truth.

[olger]

"You have a big nose."

g

[Felix Florimon]

Worth considering isthe story in the OT of God instructing Moses to mislead (lie?) Pharaoh that the Israelites just needed to go 3 days into the desert to worship and offer sacrifices because if they didn't God would punish them with plagues. Or the story of the man of God that lied to another man of God causing the second to disobey a direct instruction of God. The liar got off without punishment but the one who was mislead into disobeying was punished.

God knows our human nature so well that He does not need to ask us to lie in order to have His will to be accomplished. The problem was not God asking Moses to lie or to mislead. The real problem was in Moses and the Pharaoh. Moses would not dare to ask Pharaoh something so absurd as to free the Israelites so they could go to the land of milk and honey. The economy of Egypt was too dependent on the “cheap labor” the Israelites were able to perform. So God was not given any choice by Moses’ best understanding of how a head of state would respond to something that would be so disruptive to the Egyptian economy. It is like sending a kid to school. He first has to learn his ABC before learning the whole alphabet and before learning how to write and read. The ABC for Moses was that God’s relationship between Him and Israel would be a relationship of worship and obedience otherwise nothing would work right for them. In Moses’ mind the realities “of the here and now” were too big and, humanly speaking, he truly believed that he would be asking something highly ridiculous and absurd if he asked Pharaoh to let the Israelite to completely leave Egypt so they could establish a nation in another land. Now, from a theological point of view, the Israelites would be better prepared to leave Egypt if they were allowed to come and go several times so they could get proper training on moving so many people and worship far away without any pagan influence of how one should really worship.

Now 1 Kings 13 talks about a man of God punished because he believed the word of an old prophet who seemed to have fallen from having a real connection from God; his connection with God was re-established when the old prophet was used by God to tell him: “You have defied the word of the LORD and have not kept the command the LORD your God gave you. You came back and ate bread and drank water in the place where he told you not to eat or drink. Therefore your body will not be buried in the tomb of your fathers.”

Now when God punishes us, He doesn’t punish us because He wishes to inflict pain on us; His punishment is in order to erase the influence of evil in us. The way the old prophet reacted after the man of God was punished shows that his willingness to act doing the opposite of God’s orders was erased from his heart and mind. Any punishment against him would be just for inflicting pain on him because he really mourned the death of the man of God.

FF