Is lying a sin no matter the situation?

[oldsailor29]

Now, now, fellas. I don't know very much about disrespect, but honestly, I did not feel any. His question was asking me if I disrespected God. Although I think it perfectly fine for God to lie, but I think he wouldn't bear false witness against His neighbor very often.

[Guest]

I stopped being a tattle tale long ago. I think we are all adults here and should behave as such.

No, you stopped being a tattle tale when Stan told you to stop tattling so much. And it hasn't been that long ago.

[Woody]

You may be right Richard. For whatever reason ... I saw the error and fruitlessness of my ways. And I made things right. I'm a changed man.

If you can't beat 'em ... join 'em .

That's my new found philosophy.

[Guest]

I hear ya Woody.

[Twilight]

Now, now, fellas. I don't know very much about disrespect, but honestly, I did not feel any. His question was asking me if I disrespected God. Although I think it perfectly fine for God to lie, but I think he wouldn't bear false witness against His neighbor very often.

No, my question was that do you think God is a liar (along those lines).

You have now stated that you think it is okay for God to lie.

Which is giving God the title of Satan.

Because if God "lies", then Satan is "not" the father of lies, God the Father is.

Do you realise how blasphemous such a view is?

And do you realise that the whole Gospel is undermined.

How can anyone trust God if He is a "liar"?

Mark

[oldsailor29]

Originally Posted By: oldsailor29

Now, now, fellas. I don't know very much about disrespect, but honestly, I did not feel any. His question was asking me if I disrespected God. Although I think it perfectly fine for God to lie, but I think he wouldn't bear false witness against His neighbor very often.

No, my question was that do you think God is a liar (along those lines).

You have now stated that you think it is okay for God to lie.

Which is giving God the title of Satan.

Because if God "lies", then Satan is "not" the father of lies, God the Father is.

Do you realise how blasphemous such a view is?

And do you realise that the whole Gospel is undermined.

How can anyone trust God if He is a "liar"?

Mark

No no. I think sending a lying spirit to lie to Ahab's prophets is the same thing as lying, and saying that God did this is not giving God the title of Satan. God is the judge. Satan is the prosecuting attorney. The father of lies is the one who lied first, or maybe the one who lies most. God says it is Satan. How can I trust a God who tells me a lie? That's easy. I never stopped trusting my mom and dad when I found out there was no Santa Clause, Easter bunny, or Tooth Fairy. A person has to decide what they believe according to their own experiences in life.

Anyway, this is off the topic, which is basically, do all lies fall into the category of sin? Judging by the ninth commandment, I have concluded that not all lies are sin. Bearing false witness a neighbor is a specific kind of lie, and that kind of lie is a sin, but all others are not.

Even so, I would give God some leeway here. I think that if I told Ahab a lie which got him killed, it would probably be a sin. But then I do not have the power to resurrect Ahab, and God does, and I certainly believe God when He says He will.

When it comes to God's laws, there is always an exception.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

No, my question was that do you think God is a liar (along those lines).

You have now stated that you think it is okay for God to lie.

Which is giving God the title of Satan.

Because if God "lies", then Satan is "not" the father of lies, God the Father is.

Do you realise how blasphemous such a view is?

And do you realise that the whole Gospel is undermined.

How can anyone trust God if He is a "liar"?

Mark

No no. I think sending a lying spirit to lie to Ahab's prophets is the same thing as lying, and saying that God did this is not giving God the title of Satan. God is the judge. Satan is the prosecuting attorney. The father of lies is the one who lied first, or maybe the one who lies most. God says it is Satan. How can I trust a God who tells me a lie? That's easy. I never stopped trusting my mom and dad when I found out there was no Santa Clause, Easter bunny, or Tooth Fairy. A person has to decide what they believe according to their own experiences in life.

Anyway, this is off the topic, which is basically, do all lies fall into the category of sin? Judging by the ninth commandment, I have concluded that not all lies are sin. Bearing false witness a neighbor is a specific kind of lie, and that kind of lie is a sin, but all others are not.

Even so, I would give God some leeway here. I think that if I told Ahab a lie which got him killed, it would probably be a sin. But then I do not have the power to resurrect Ahab, and God does, and I certainly believe God when He says He will.

When it comes to God's laws, there is always an exception.

According to this reasoning Oldsailor, you do not really know if anything in the bible is actually true?

Also, you have not answered the point.

If God is a liar, then Satan is not the Father of Lies.

God is.

Is that what you want to convey?

If you are saying God can lie, then it did not originate with Satan, it originated with God.

To be honest Oldsailor, I have heard some crazy stuff on this board at times, but this has to be one of the worst "out there" views I have ever read.

How can someone claim to know God and call Him a liar?

Mark

[oldsailor29]

Originally Posted By: oldsailor29

No no. I think sending a lying spirit to lie to Ahab's prophets is the same thing as lying, and saying that God did this is not giving God the title of Satan. God is the judge. Satan is the prosecuting attorney. The father of lies is the one who lied first, or maybe the one who lies most. God says it is Satan. How can I trust a God who tells me a lie? That's easy. I never stopped trusting my mom and dad when I found out there was no Santa Clause, Easter bunny, or Tooth Fairy. A person has to decide what they believe according to their own experiences in life.

Anyway, this is off the topic, which is basically, do all lies fall into the category of sin? Judging by the ninth commandment, I have concluded that not all lies are sin. Bearing false witness a neighbor is a specific kind of lie, and that kind of lie is a sin, but all others are not.

Even so, I would give God some leeway here. I think that if I told Ahab a lie which got him killed, it would probably be a sin. But then I do not have the power to resurrect Ahab, and God does, and I certainly believe God when He says He will.

When it comes to God's laws, there is always an exception.

According to this reasoning Oldsailor, you do not really know if anything in the bible is actually true?

Also, you have not answered the point.

If God is a liar, then Satan is not the Father of Lies.

God is.

Is that what you want to convey?

If you are saying God can lie, then it did not originate with Satan, it originated with God.

To be honest Oldsailor, I have heard some crazy stuff on this board at times, but this has to be one of the worst "out there" views I have ever read.

How can someone claim to know God and call Him a liar?

Mark

[olger]

When it comes to God's laws, there is always an exception.

This comment, however well intended, is nonsense !!

You cannot posit a theological absolute with a statement that denies that they exist.

as you were,

oG

[oldsailor29]

Originally Posted By: oldsailor

When it comes to God's laws, there is always an exception.

This comment, however well intended, is nonsense !!

You cannot posit a theological absolute with a statement that denies that they exist.

as you were,

oG

just illustrates that always actually means almost always.

[Aliensanctuary]

Jesus could have lied to save his hide, or spilled his guts or whined or bawled until his eyes grew red, but instead, he chose dignified silence when confronted with hostile prosecutors and witnesses.

Whether we or someone else lives or dies may not be as important as whether or not we are truthful. If we are classed as liars, it would be a great loss of honor and a step down the wrong path. Probably very few of us appreciate being lied to, but rude, personal questions really don't deserve a response.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

According to this reasoning Oldsailor, you do not really know if anything in the bible is actually true?

Also, you have not answered the point.

If God is a liar, then Satan is not the Father of Lies.

God is.

Is that what you want to convey?

If you are saying God can lie, then it did not originate with Satan, it originated with God.

To be honest Oldsailor, I have heard some crazy stuff on this board at times, but this has to be one of the worst "out there" views I have ever read.

How can someone claim to know God and call Him a liar?

Mark

I thought I answered your point and also the point of the topic.

Originally Posted By: Twilight

If God is a liar, then Satan is not the Father of Lies.

God is.

Is this the point you say I didn't answer? Frankly I don't understand your reasoning there. God says Satan is the father of lies. That's good enough for me. I would not dispute that. And I don't see how I am disputing it. Just because God lies does not make Him the father of lies. Why would it? What if I told a lie? Would that make me the father of lies?

I will post one last thought, then I will have to leave this nonsense alone.

It is blasphemous.

If God is a "liar" then He was a "liar" before Satan was even created.

Therefore Satan cannot be the "Father of lies".

You are stating that God is a liar Oldsailor, I pray He gives you wisdom to repent of what I can only in all honesty call a foolish thought.

Mark

[oldsailor29]

I will post one last thought, then I will have to leave this nonsense alone.

It is blasphemous.

If God is a "liar" then He was a "liar" before Satan was even created.

Therefore Satan cannot be the "Father of lies".

You are stating that God is a liar Oldsailor, I pray He gives you wisdom to repent of what I can only in all honesty call a foolish thought.

Mark

Well that is a good thing, because we have strayed from the topic here and gone off on this tangent. Before doing so, I had stated that not all lies are sins, which answers the question of the thread.

[Twilight]

Quote:

Tts 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

It seems that God cannot lie.

Therefore, yes, lying is always a sin as God never does it.

Mark

[oldsailor29]

Quote:

Tts 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

It seems that God cannot lie.

Therefore, yes, lying is always a sin as God never does it.

Mark

Of course the promise of eternal life is a conditional promise, just like all other promises and prophecies. And I sincerely doubt that Paul ever knew any more about what God could and could not do than Job and his friends knew. Any statement affirming or denying God's capabilities has no basis in actual knowledge, and is therefore based in ignorance, and therefore is not necessarily true.

Furthermore, there are probably many things God has not done which are not sins. Just because God has not done it does not make it a sin to do. When Satan was said to be the father of lies, I'm sure the lie in question was the sinful one of bearing false witness against a righteous being, ie. God. Satan said God is a tyrant. That is an excellent example of bearing false witness against someone who would help anyone who was down. Most of Satan's lies are like that. But I don't know if being the father of lies means the first to lie, or if it means the biggest liar. I don't think anybody knows that.

Obviously, you have made up your mind, and even the Bible story of Ahab's lying prophets whose message was seen in vision being sent by God, will not change your mind. But that is okay, because it is not a determining factor in salvation.

[olger]

[Tallmark]

Don't we all embellish the truth somewhat when we talk about our weight, how big of a fish we caught, or our "beautiful" children?

[pindoc]

Also remember Rahab, who lied to the bad guys in order to protect the good guys who were hiding in her whorehouse. No doubt she is a hero and we will see her in Heaven.

Thank u for the delineation on "false witness". This reminds me that early SDA's were involved in the Underground Railroad. EGW condoned that involvement, stating that there are higher laws to which we have to answer than human laws. You know it was not possible for folks to do that kind of work w/o deceiving anyone, ever.

But absolutely, I think that guy would have best to respond that it was none of their business re: his virginity or lack there-of.

Yes, silence can be golden, especially when people ask inappropriate questions.

[pindoc]

Don't we all embellish the truth somewhat when we talk about our weight, how big of a fish we caught, or our "beautiful" children?

I actually told the truth at the DMV earlier this year. Even rounded up to the next pound.

Ever listen to Prairie Home Companion, where "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average." I'm just waiting for some game participant to say their children are above average. I may laugh so hard I'll be choking, don't be surprised.

Olger, u are SO bad.

[olger]

[Gerr]

Quote:

When it comes to God's laws, there is always an exception.

For the almost all of the 10c, I would agree with you. There is ONE commandment for which I cannot conceive of ANY exceptions: The law - THOU SHALT LOVE.

[olger]

Where do you come up with this stuff, Dr. C.? Somethin ain't right here.

[Gerr]

Think this through, Olger. By definition, anything that is considered "absolute" can have no exemptions. And we see scriptural examples where there are works that are exempted from the prohibition of work in the 4th commandment. Not all taking of something that doesn't belong to someone else is stealing. Many if not most consider the 7th c absolute. But the Bible provides many examples of men having had other relationships other than with their first wives who were not charged with the sin of adultery. Not all telling of an untruth is charged as sin, but the command to love is absolute. An act that may be good in itself if done with the wrong motive would not be credited in the books of heaven. Sometimes the letter of the law seems to contradict the law of love. Take the case of Rahab. Many interpret the 9th commandment to mean ALL untruths are sins. But "love always protects" also (1 Cor 13:7 NIV). So when an enlightened person is faced with a decision in which truth may cause someone's life as opposed to a lie that may save a life in which the deciding person concludes that that is the loving thing to do, I don't see sin being reckoned against him. Under most circumstances, it would be wrong for me to take my own life, but there is no question in my mind that sacrificing my life for the sake of someone else's well-being is NOT sinful; it is considered not only good but commendable. The Bible seems clear to me that God is more interested in the MOTIVE behind an act than what the actual deed itself.