So why is it?

[FLO]

How are the above quotes relevant to today’s Xtian?—isn’t it really a non-issue? Are you proposing that today’s Xtian observe the Jewish Pasch?

Nope. Today's Christian should not celebrate the Jewish Passover or the Pagan Easter, but should celebrate the Christian Passover. Just like Jesus and the disciples did at the last supper, which happened to be a Passover meal. However, it was a Christian passover meal with no animal sacrifice, since Jesus was the sacrifice or Passover lamb. Christians should remember the death of Jesus at the appropriate time (at passover), not at a man-made, pagan infused, Roman Catholic holiday (aka. Easter).

[FLO]

Flo I appreciated all your posts. Even though I don't necessarily agree with your thoughts. I think Stan had a much better verse that he posted.

For me I think were it not for the Jews we would not have had any holidays. Its because of them that many Christians wanted other days of worship and holidays to celebrate, because they didn't want to be persecuted as the Jews were.

pk

If they wanted holidays to worship, why didn't they just worship the biblical holidays? Why did they have to celebrate pagan holidays which the bible clearly forbids?

That's also why they gave up the 7th-day Sabbath in favour of Sunday (the day of the Sun) because they didn't want to be persecuted like the Jews. They compromised on both the Sabbath and Passover. We managed to re-claim the Sabbath many years down the road, why can't we do the same with the passover that the early Christian believers observed.

[karl]

OK, fair enough. Any particular specific ones you'd like us to look at the evidence for, karl?

I'm not pointing fingers at any specific conspirators. I am just responding to the calumny that has been heaped upon those who would ask others to consider that a conspiracy has happened. You are an educator. Is it scientific to reject evidence simply because you don't want to believe it? I have looked at some evidence and I found it to be disturbing at best.

Watch this video and then tell me whether you think it looks like a natural consequence of the preceding events or whether it looks like it was deliberately orchestrated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58h0LjdMry0

I don't think that believing, or not believing, in this kind of wickedness in high places is going to change the way endtime events play out in any way, but the evidence is very unsettling.

And, in terms of conspiracy, there is one undeniable one. The illegal drug trade in this country and in the world is run by real people who conspire with one another to promote this illegal, but very profitable business.

A United Nations publication of 1998, "Economic and Social Consequences of Drug Abuse and Illicit Trafficking," states that:

"With estimates of $100 billion to $110 billion for heroin, $110 billion to $130 billion for cocaine, $75 billion for cannabis and $60 billion for synthetic drugs, the probable global figure for the total illicit drug industry would be approximately $360 billion. Given the conservative bias in some of the estimates for individual substances, a turnover of around $400 billion per annum is considered realistic."

There is simply no way to deal with that much money without government and banking being involved.

"The Latin American drug cartels have stretched their tentacles much deeper into our lives than most people believe. It's possible they are calling the shots at all levels of government."

- William Colby, former CIA Director, 1995

[Neil D]

Karl,

I looked at the video....

1] To me, it looks doctored. It appears that buildings are CGF/computer graphics...

2] Why bring down a perfectly good building?

[karl]

Karl,

I looked at the video....

1] To me, it looks doctored. It appears that buildings are CGF/computer graphics...

2] Why bring down a perfectly good building?

Money. Always follow the money. The impetus for most big scandals is money, or power, or both.

The payoff to Silverstein was 4.55 billion. He had less than half a billion invested.

In 1980, Silverstein won a bid from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to construct 7 World Trade Center, to the north of the World Trade Center. Silverstein was interested in acquiring the entire World Trade Center complex, and put in a bid when the Port Authority put it up for lease in 2000. Silverstein won the bid when a deal between the initial winner and the Port Authority fell through, and he signed the lease on July 24, 2001, only weeks before the towers were destroyed in the September 11 attacks.

Soon after the September 11 attacks, Silverstein declared his intent to rebuild, though ran into dispute with his insurers over whether the attacks constituted one or two occurrences. A settlement was reached in 2004, with insurers agreeing to pay out $4.55 billion.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

Flo I appreciated all your posts. Even though I don't necessarily agree with your thoughts. I think Stan had a much better verse that he posted.

For me I think were it not for the Jews we would not have had any holidays. Its because of them that many Christians wanted other days of worship and holidays to celebrate, because they didn't want to be persecuted as the Jews were.

pk

If they wanted holidays to worship, why didn't they just worship the biblical holidays? Why did they have to celebrate pagan holidays which the bible clearly forbids?

That's also why they gave up the 7th-day Sabbath in favour of Sunday (the day of the Sun) because they didn't want to be persecuted like the Jews. They compromised on both the Sabbath and Passover. We managed to re-claim the Sabbath many years down the road, why can't we do the same with the passover that the early Christian believers observed.

Actually FLO I agree with this last post of yours. I've mentioned that many times at church.

pk

[SivartM]

We celebrate Passover. It's called "communion", "Lord's supper", or "Eucharist", depending on what church you go to.

[Woody]

TU SivartM

[FLO]

We celebrate Passover. It's called "communion", "Lord's supper", or "Eucharist", depending on what church you go to.

So then, why do we do it 4 or more times a years and never on the actual passover date? Also, why do we still acknowledge Easter if we already celebrate the passover via "communion"?

[phkrause]

We celebrate Passover. It's called "communion", "Lord's supper", or "Eucharist", depending on what church you go to.

I disagree with that. Our church celebrates Easter per se. And don't get me wrong. I have no problem with that. But its not at the right time period. I know we do the "communion", but 4 times a year? Why? And again I have no problem with this either.

pk

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:jasd

How are the above quotes relevant to today’s Xtian?—isn’t it really a non-issue? Are you proposing that today’s Xtian observe the Jewish Pasch?

>>...but should celebrate the Christian Passover. Just like Jesus and the disciples did at the last supper,<<

Actually, there seems to be a bit of a dichotomy in the above statement. Jesus Christ and the disciples, should they have indeed celebrated a Pasch, did so in a manner not in keeping with its strictures, but celebrated instead, as you’ve noted – a Last Supper.

>>Christians should remember the death of Jesus at the appropriate time (at passover), not at a man-made, pagan infused, Roman Catholic holiday (aka. Easter).<<

That is not Biblically required. The Xtian should reprise the Last Supper:

1 Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Cor 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

1 Cor 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

in frequent remembrance – suggesting

more than a quarterly cycle.

>>Roman Catholic holiday (aka. Easter)<<

Indeed, a holy day for assembling... A day is no more and no less than how and by what - it is endued.

[FLO]

Quote:

Quote:jasd

How are the above quotes relevant to today’s Xtian?—isn’t it really a non-issue? Are you proposing that today’s Xtian observe the Jewish Pasch?

>>...but should celebrate the Christian Passover. Just like Jesus and the disciples did at the last supper,<<

Actually, there seems to be a bit of a dichotomy in the above statement. Jesus Christ and the disciples, should they have indeed celebrated a Pasch, did so in a manner not in keeping with its strictures, but celebrated instead, as you’ve noted – a Last Supper.

>>Christians should remember the death of Jesus at the appropriate time (at passover), not at a man-made, pagan infused, Roman Catholic holiday (aka. Easter).<<

That is not Biblically required. The Xtian should reprise the Last Supper:

1 Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Cor 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

1 Cor 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

in frequent remembrance – suggesting

more than a quarterly cycle.

>>Roman Catholic holiday (aka. Easter)<<

Indeed, a holy day for assembling... A day is no more and no less than how and by what - it is endued.

"As often as ye..." is in context of the event taking place, which was passover. If, for example, we're talking about the 9/11 memorial that happens every year on September 11th, and I say "as often as you celebrate this memorial, also send uncle bob in new york a postcard" I'm not implying that you need to send uncle bob a postcard more than once a year or even at some other time of the year. It just means that whenever you celebrate the 9/11 memorial (i.e. on September 11th every year), at that time also send uncle bob a postcard.

Same goes for the passover. That's clearly what they were celebrating, the bible calls it passover. And why would Jesus say "as often as you do this, do it in remembrance of me"? Because until that point in time, they celebrated the passover as a remembrance of their deliverance from Egypt. Jesus was now changing the focus of Passover to His sacrifice instead of their deliverance from Egypt. That's all he was saying. He wasn't telling them that they should celebrate it every day, every week, every month, or every quarter. Also, if you do some historical research you'll find out that the early church kept the passover. Here are just a few quotes:

“The earliest Christians celebrated the Lord's Passover at the same time as the Jews, during the night of the first full moon of the first month of spring (Nisan 14-15). By the middle of the 2nd century, most churches had transferred this celebration to the Sunday after the Jewish feast. But certain churches of Asia Minor clung to the older custom, for which they were denounced as ‘judaizing'. The first ecumenical Council of Nicaea in 325 decreed that all churches should observe the feast together on a Sunday”

- The Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15th edition, Macropaedia, Vol. 4, pp. 604-605, "Church Year".

“The Quartodecimans contentiously keep Passover on one day, once per year...They keep the Passover on whichever day the fourteenth of the month falls...Christ had to be slain on the fourteenth of the month in accordance with the law”

- Epiphanius. The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis, Books II and III (Sects 47-80), De Fide. Section IV, Verses 1,3;1,6;2,6. Translated by Frank Williams. EJ Brill, New York, 1994, pp. 23-25).

“There is no doubt that Apollinarius was a Quartodeciman...Those who kept Passover in the evening understood it to be a repetition of the Lord's Supper”

- Stewart-Sykes A. Melito of Sardis On Pascha. St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, Crestwood (NY), 2001, p. 81).

“Audians...they choose to celebrate the Passover with the Jews--that is they contentiously celebrate the Passover at the same time as the Jews are holding their Festival of Unleavened Bread. And indeed that this used to be the church's custom”

- Epiphanius. The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis, Books II and III (Sects 47-80), De Fide. Section VI, Verses 8,11; 9,2. Translated by Frank Williams. EJ Brill, New York, 1994, pp. 410-411.

“Anicetus argued for Easter while Polycarp, a student of the apostle John, defended observing ‘the Christian Passover, on the 14th of Nisan, the first month of the Jewish ecclesiastical calendar, regardless of the day of the week’ ”

- Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15th edition, Micropaedia, Vol. 8, p. 94, "Polycarp".

[jasd]

>>"As often as ye..." is in context of the event taking place, which was passover.<<

Indeed, an “event” occurred in near-conjunction with the Vernal Equinox – with particulars transforming the “event” from a theretofore OT ritual to one correlating to a New Testament covenant; that is, it became parcel the sea change signified by Jesus Christ’s death.

>>If, for example, we're talking about the 9/11 memorial that happens every year on September 11th, and I say "as often as you celebrate this memorial, also send uncle bob in new york a postcard" I'm not implying that you need to send uncle bob a postcard more than once a year or even at some other time of the year. It just means that whenever you celebrate the 9/11 memorial (i.e. on September 11th every year), at that time also send uncle bob a postcard.<<

The significance of “Christ and Him crucified” and the sea change attending – as opposed to the mundane – leaves me a bit unappreciative of the proposed similitude.

>>Same goes for the passover. That's clearly what they were celebrating, the bible calls it passover.<<

There had occurred, by the time of Jesus Christ’s epiphany, many changes, which were introduced to the Jewish economy, for example: Pasch had become a celebration of 7-8 days duration – conflated with the Days of Unleavened Bread...

>>And why would Jesus say "as often as you do this, do it in remembrance of me"? Because until that point in time, they celebrated the passover as a remembrance of their deliverance from Egypt.<<

1 Cor 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Often is often and textually, is not constrained; otherwise, indeed...,

and at the Last Supper Jesus Christ instituted another celebration saliently more than simple remembrance of a passage from Egypt – one signifying better things; that, Xtians celebrate this season.

>>Jesus was now changing the focus of Passover to His sacrifice instead of their deliverance from Egypt. That's all he was saying.<<

Okay, it was premature of me to respond (in the above) prior to reading the immediate statement proffered...

>>He wasn't telling them that they should celebrate it every day, every week, every month, or every quarter.<<

I reprise: “Often is often.”

>>Also, if you do some historical research you'll find out that the early church kept the passover.<<

Didn’t St Paul suggest that the blood required by antitypical feasts were, post-crucifixion – in fact, nullity? Wouldn’t an ecclesiastical keeping of a fulfilled OT ritual feast conflict with the majority understanding of the cheirographon being ‘nailed to the cross’?

I agree that many of the early church judaized by observing fulfilled feasts/Types; however,

one must assume that, though not requisite, the “early church kept the passover” Biblically – as unto the Lord, much as Sunday worshippers keep Sunday, as unto the Lord, yes?

>>Here are just a few quotes:

[...]<<

Observations upon certain ‘practices’ of early Xtians do not justify keeping Pasch by Xtians – nor do they, Biblically, proscribe the Xtian observance of Easter. In fact,

a better construction can be made from Writ for observing Easter than for Pasch.

[FLO]

Didn’t St Paul suggest that the blood required by antitypical feasts were, post-crucifixion – in fact, nullity? Wouldn’t an ecclesiastical keeping of a fulfilled OT ritual feast conflict with the majority understanding of the cheirographon being ‘nailed to the cross’?

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: jasd

Didn’t St Paul suggest that the blood required by antitypical feasts were, post-crucifixion – in fact, nullity? Wouldn’t an ecclesiastical keeping of a fulfilled OT ritual feast conflict with the majority understanding of the cheirographon being ‘nailed to the cross’?

Yes! I agree the blood (aka. a physical sacrifice) is not required after Jesus' death. But the day on which they celebrated is still the same day we should commemorate the same event. Our understanding of the cheirographon in Colossians is faulty. The feasts were definitely not nailed to the cross. For more info on that topic you can read the study located at www.LawInColossians.com

Originally Posted By: jasd

I agree that many of the early church judaized by observing fulfilled feasts/Types; however,

one must assume that, though not requisite, the “early church kept the passover” Biblically – as unto the Lord, much as Sunday worshippers keep Sunday, as unto the Lord, yes?

They weren't judaizing, they were simply keeping the commandments in Leviticus 23. They had a "Thus sayeth the LORD", something the Sunday worshipers never had.

Very good points FLO

pk

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:jasd

Didn’t St Paul suggest that the blood required by antitypical feasts were, post-crucifixion – in fact, nullity? Wouldn’t an ecclesiastical keeping of a fulfilled OT ritual feast conflict with the majority understanding of the cheirographon being ‘nailed to the cross’?

>>Yes! I agree the blood (aka. a physical sacrifice) is not required after Jesus' death. But the day on which they celebrated is still the same day we should commemorate the same event.<<

There was the OT Ecclesiastical calendar, there was the Jewish calendar at the time of Jesus Christ’s Epiphany, and there is the present Jewish calendar. None agree.

The OT priests were the ‘keepers’ of their calendar. It is readily admitted by Jews that the present calendar is not Biblical.

>>Our understanding of the cheirographon in Colossians is faulty. The feasts were definitely not nailed to the cross. For more info on that topic you can read the study located at www.LawInColossians.com<<

I haven’t time to check-out the link tonight; however, will do so at my earliest convenience. That said, I agree, current understanding of what, exactly, cheirographon means vis-à-vis the ‘articles’ nailed to the cross – is faulty.

Quote:

Quote:jasd

I agree that many of the early church judaized by observing fulfilled feasts/Types; however,

one must assume that, though not requisite, the “early church kept the passover” Biblically – as unto the Lord, much as Sunday worshippers keep Sunday, as unto the Lord, yes?

>>They weren't judaizing, they were simply keeping the commandments in Leviticus 23.<<

In the middle of the first century this era, the author of Hebrews wrote the following:

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

>>They had a "Thus sayeth the LORD",<<

Pardon, but NO they did not have a “Thus sayeth...” - or rather, the NT Xtian did not have an applicable "Thus sayeth..."

Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.

Gd spoke through Jeremiah with a “Thus sayeth...”

KJV Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

Gd spoke through Hosea with a “Thus sayeth...”

Gd removed the calendrical reckoning from both of the confederated Houses of Israel - Judah and Ephraim.

>>something the Sunday worshipers never had.<<

Indeed, rather, the Sunday worshipers were confronted with an outstanding epistemological lacuna, which they filled with remembrance of the Saviour’s death and resurrection; that is Sunday observance.

Biblically, both observors may be correct, depending...

upon understanding and/or conviction.

[FLO]

Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.

Gd spoke through Jeremiah with a “Thus sayeth...”

KJV Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

Gd spoke through Hosea with a “Thus sayeth...”

These verses seem to be taken out of context. The former verse is speaking of all the terrible things that the presently captive Jews went through. With them captive in Babylon, there's no one left in Zion to continue the solemn feasts and sabbaths, and they are therefore being forgotten there. That's the consequences of what they've done. It, by no means, it trying to indicate that the LORD's feasts and sabbaths (Lev. 23) were something negative that needed to be taken out of the way.

Actually, in Leviticus 23, which says "These are the feasts of the LORD", and then goes on to list the weekly sabbath, followed by the yearly sabbaths. The feasts there are constantly referred to as HIS (God's) feasts, not anyone else's. So, that begs the question of who's "feasts, new moons, and sabbaths" the passage in Hosea is referring to. Verse 2 says "For she is not My wife, nor am I her Husband!", God is speaking about His unfaithful people. So when we read about "her feast days, her new moons..." in verse 11, it is clearly NOT the same ones that are spoken of in Leviticus 23, because those ones are HIS, not hers.

If you read the whole chapter (Hosea 2) it mentions their (or her) Baal worship practices, which means that they probably started mixing pagan practices with HIS feasts, and that's when they became their (or her) feasts. God's Feasts are pure and holy, and that's how He wants them kept. Once we start mixing pagan forms on worship with His Holy days, then we're not celebrating His Holy days anymore, but someone else's. That's why we need to separate ourselves from this ridiculous holiday called Easter, and start celebrating it as the Christian Passover, like the disciples and the early believers did.

Also, I agree that the modern rabbinical jewish calendar is far removed from the calendar described in the bible. However, for those who care to know, there are people that actually observe the biblical calendar. The Karaites are just one example. (http://www.karaite-korner.org/new_moon.shtml). Karaites are, i believe, the jewish equivalent of the protestants. They reject the rabbinical authority (just like the protestants reject the papal authority) and use the scriptures as their only basis of authority, thus they also reject the modern jewish calendar and instead have reverted back to using the biblical calendar. So yeah, my point is that with a little research, anyone can be keeping the biblical calendar, you don't need to be an OT priest to do so.

[jasd]

>>These verses seem to be taken out of context.<<

Per the use of “context” as device: though resorting to it occasionally, I usually attempt to avoid it – as it seems to suggest more of a ‘default’ position rather – than otherwise.

>>The former verse is speaking of all the terrible things that the presently captive Jews went through. With them captive in Babylon, there's no one left in Zion to continue the solemn feasts and sabbaths, and they are therefore being forgotten there.<<

Indeed; however, I’d ask for the subsequent and substantiating verses which would advise the Biblical expositor – that the verse is no more than contextual and that the OT Ecclesiastical calendar has since been restored to the Jews – certain of Nehemiah’s actions notwithstanding.

It is common stipulation by Jews that the present calendar is not Biblical; I’d further ask – when, then, was the Jew’s calendar actually “forgotten” – as opposed to ‘neglect’ per se?

An argument from hermeneutics may be posited that – from the actualization of Gd’s curse until restoration – seven ‘times’ (2520 years) passes over the cursed; at which time, a construction might be made for ‘restoration’.

>>That's the consequences of what they've done. It, by no means, it trying to indicate that the LORD's feasts and sabbaths (Lev. 23) were something negative that needed to be taken out of the way.<<

Indeed not; the “feasts and sabbaths” were not intrinsically “negative”. As far as the Seventh-day Sabbath..., I’ve already proposed that Writ advises us Gd removed the Seventh-day Sabbath to prevent its continuing profanation before the heathen and to preserve its hallowedness. Therefor, Gd secreted its calendrical reckoning – until such time – as the millennial reign.

>>Actually, in Leviticus 23, which says "These are the feasts of the LORD", and then goes on to list the weekly sabbath, followed by the yearly sabbaths. The feasts there are constantly referred to as HIS (God's) feasts, not anyone else's.<<

“What the King giveth, the King taketh.”

The foregoing is axiomatic; nevertheless, the yearly feasts continued, with Gd only – being aware of the exactness, that they, in their appointed time, might be fulfilled. Being fulfilled,

there remains no continuance... What’s that say about the Autumnal Feasts?

>>So, that begs the question of who's "feasts, new moons, and sabbaths" the passage in Hosea is referring to.<<

Whilst the “feasts, new moons, and sabbaths” remained, they’re both Gd’s and the COI’s – as Gd had given the “feasts, new moons, and sabbaths”; no, not quite true – had commanded them.

>>Verse 2 says "For she is not My wife, nor am I her Husband!", God is speaking about His unfaithful people. So when we read about "her feast days, her new moons..." in verse 11, it is clearly NOT the same ones that are spoken of in Leviticus 23, because those ones are HIS, not hers.<<

Without presently parsing the above, recall that Hosea was prophesying to the Northern Kingdom of Ephraim. Do the tribes of that kingdom currently practice observance of the “feasts, new moons, and sabbaths” of Hosea 2:11?—or have they, for the past several millennia? If so, where?

It is prima facie that the OT Ecclesiastical calendar was removed from the tribes of the Northern Confederacy. It no longer exists and has not since their collapse, captivity, and subsequent migrations...

>>If you read the whole chapter (Hosea 2) it mentions their (or her) Baal worship practices, which means that they probably started mixing pagan practices with HIS feasts, and that's when they became their (or her) feasts. God's Feasts are pure and holy, and that's how He wants them kept. Once we start mixing pagan forms on worship with His Holy days, then we're not celebrating His Holy days anymore, but someone else's. That's why we need to separate ourselves from this ridiculous holiday called Easter, and start celebrating it as the Christian Passover, like the disciples and the early believers did.<<

I urge – that we not conflate Ephraim with Judah...

>>Also, I agree that the modern rabbinical jewish calendar is far removed from the calendar described in the bible. However, for those who care to know, there are people that actually observe the biblical calendar. The Karaites are just one example. (http://www.karaite-korner.org/new_moon.shtml). Karaites are, i believe, the jewish equivalent of the protestants. They reject the rabbinical authority (just like the protestants reject the papal authority) and use the scriptures as their only basis of authority, thus they also reject the modern jewish calendar and instead have reverted back to using the biblical calendar. So yeah, my point is that with a little research, anyone can be keeping the biblical calendar, you don't need to be an OT priest to do so.<<

I agree that the Karaites observe to their own contentment; however, aside from their determination of exactly when the new moon occurs over Jerusalem and when the barley is ripe unto the harvest, etc...

They’ve not established whether the solar calendar the OT COI used was one of 360 days, 365 days, or one of 365¼ days incorporating interstices – for instance:

How do they reconcile, should Nisan 14 occur upon a Wednesday, their buying, selling, and carting of goats and lambs upon a Saturday, Nisan 10? Seems to me that the only condition allowing same – would be a calendar incorporating

an interstice; otherwise, the proscription against working upon the Sabbath becomes problematic.

[Martus]

would

Col 2-16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths

have anything to do with what ever holidays someone wants to celebrate

you jest, correct?

if not, the writer was refering to the OT Jewish feasts and festivals. ie; Biblical observances found in Leviticus. In otherwords; Without any pagan origin. Capisce?

[Martus]

And, in terms of conspiracy, there is one undeniable one. The illegal drug trade in this country and in the world is run by real people who conspire with one another to promote this illegal, but very profitable business...

...There is simply no way to deal with that much money without government and banking being involved.

"The Latin American drug cartels have stretched their tentacles much deeper into our lives than most people believe. It's possible they are calling the shots at all levels of government."

- William Colby, former CIA Director, 1995

You just hit Paydirt!

So True and so sad.

This is one of the biggest conspiracies in the US.

Just follow the money trail. This partly how black OP's fund.

The problem with the word "conspiracy" is the media has magically attached the word "theory" at times without even using it. So the mind is prepped or conditioned to debunk the conspirators when in fact the whole 'story' is just that and "bunk".

Reminds me of the text that says that the devil 'deceives' the whole world...

[Martus]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

Karl,

I looked at the video....

1] To me, it looks doctored. It appears that buildings are CGF/computer graphics...

2] Why bring down a perfectly good building?

Money. Always follow the money. The impetus for most big scandals is money, or power, or both.

The payoff to Silverstein was 4.55 billion. He had less than half a billion invested.

In 1980, Silverstein won a bid from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to construct 7 World Trade Center, to the north of the World Trade Center. Silverstein was interested in acquiring the entire World Trade Center complex, and put in a bid when the Port Authority put it up for lease in 2000. Silverstein won the bid when a deal between the initial winner and the Port Authority fell through, and he signed the lease on July 24, 2001, only weeks before the towers were destroyed in the September 11 attacks.

Soon after the September 11 attacks, Silverstein declared his intent to rebuild, though ran into dispute with his insurers over whether the attacks constituted one or two occurrences. A settlement was reached in 2004, with insurers agreeing to pay out $4.55 billion.

Karl, You have to understand the first line of accepting truth is denial. (no offense Neil) It's just how we rationalize or how we are wired.

BTW, since you are so spot on the facts regarding Silverstein and the whole episode, here is a link I think you might like if you haven't seen it. It's a lecture done a few years back by a Professor of economics in Canada.

Enjoy.

Click here > War and Globalization

It kind of sets the background for our current world crisis.

[FLO]

It is common stipulation by Jews that the present calendar is not Biblical; I’d further ask – when, then, was the Jew’s calendar actually “forgotten” – as opposed to ‘neglect’ per se?

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:jasd

It is common stipulation by Jews that the present calendar is not Biblical; I’d further ask – when, then, was the Jew’s calendar actually “forgotten” – as opposed to ‘neglect’ per se?

>>When they started calculating their calendars as opposed to doing it the biblical way (watching for the new moon).<<

Indeed, as attested to by witnesses and verified by priests – who determined the days and seasons of the Ecclesiastical calendar. Disabuse me should I err, but did not the beginning of Nisan/Abib also depend upon the condition of the barley harvest?—if so, then sometimes, an additional ‘month’ was immediately inserted into the calendar – should the harvest be late...

The above being so, Seventh-day Sabbaths were tied to the Feasts.

>>You can go online and find out when passover is in the year 2099, because the Jews now calculate their calendar. This is not the biblical way.<<

Indeed; yet, there are the hubrists who insist only upon an ability to recycle a count of seven!—whilst snarking at all else...

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Quote:jasd

Indeed not; the “feasts and sabbaths” were not intrinsically “negative”. As far as the Seventh-day Sabbath..., I’ve already proposed that Writ advises us Gd removed the Seventh-day Sabbath to prevent its continuing profanation before the heathen and to preserve its hallowedness. Therefor, Gd secreted its calendrical reckoning – until such time – as the millennial reign.

>>Why did the apostles, Paul and the early church still observe the Seventh-day Sabbath then?<<

They dwelt within the Jewish economy – with Writ adjuring against egregious behaviour (offense). St Paul expanded upon that premise with the admonition that whatsover is sold in the shambles eat - even the local version of grilled shish kapork... [paraphrased]

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Quote:jasd

Without presently parsing the above, recall that Hosea was prophesying to the Northern Kingdom of Ephraim. Do the tribes of that kingdom currently practice observance of the “feasts, new moons, and sabbaths” of Hosea 2:11?—or have they, for the past several millennia? If so, where?

I urge – that we not conflate Ephraim with Judah...[ed.jasd]

>>Both Ephraim and Judah fell into pagan practices, which polluted God's Appointed Times. Non-Jews still celebrate "feasts, new moons, and sabbaths",<<

I point you back to my quote with the edited/bolded definite article, which is a bit of a remove from any ol’ feast, moon, or holiday...

>>For example, the majority of Christians observe Christmas and Easter as their major feast days,<<

1 Cor 9:22 ...I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

>>So, whoever the people of Ephraim turned into in modern times,<<

It is my belief that, for the most part, the former confederated tribes of Ephraim/Israel are today, primarily the Caucasians: Jews from Abraham and Judah’s loins are, necessarily, to be found closely associated with and where there is a sceptre – according to Holy Writ.

>>...a far cry from the ones God commanded us to observe in Lev 23.<<

As is so much that is OT - or, per Feasts, have had their fulfillment in Type.

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Quote:jasd

They’ve not established whether the solar calendar the OT COI used was one of 360 days, 365 days, or one of 365¼ days

>>From what I know, they don't use the solar calendar at all.<<

Sorry, I was under the impression that they did: some what says, that their solar calendar was one which dealt with civil matters.

[LifeHiscost]

STAN

WELL that is a good question... but just being intelligent

does not make people wise and open to the HOLY SPIRIT

dgrimm60

Hear, hear. And the wisest there ever was, at least up to that time, married 600 wives so I'm suggesting wisdom is very fleeting in the lives of fallen human beings who believe wisdom emanates from themselves.

"...and of Him ye -- ye are in Christ Jesus, who became to us from God wisdom, righteousness also, and sanctification, and redemption"1 Corinthians 1:30 YLT

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

So why is it perfectly normal intelligent people fall for the stupidest conspiracy theories?

Is there anyone "perfectly normal" and can you be that, and still be intelligent when believing "stupid conspiracies", other than in one's own eyes?

Just asking.